• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

GT Goku Profile

Status
Not open for further replies.
RedReaper616 said:
Probably. In fact, considering it’s relevant due to the scaling chain blog, it can probably be an additional topic to discuss in this thread.
Click to expand...
Fine, I'll give scans and translations later.

If by the GT Files we have Super Baby 1 as a SSJ2 and Super Baby 2 as a SSJ3 (by the perfect files), and the former was stomping SSJ3 Goku, then we have this:
  • Base Goku = 1
  • SSJ3 Goku = 400
  • Super Baby 1 > 400
  • Super Baby 2 > 1600
  • Gold Oozaru Baby > 16000
With SSJ4 Goku being stronger than it.

Iirc there are also statements of SSJ4 being "several times" stronger than G Oozaru Baby, which would make it >32000, though as I said, I'll give scans later as I'm super busy.
 
StrymULTRA said:
Fine, I'll give scans and translations later.

If by the GT Files we have Super Baby 1 as a SSJ2 and Super Baby 2 as a SSJ3 (by the perfect files), and the former was stomping SSJ3 Goku, then we have this:
  • Base Goku = 1
  • SSJ3 Goku = 400
  • Super Baby 1 > 400
  • Super Baby 2 > 1600
  • Gold Oozaru Baby > 16000
With SSJ4 Goku being stronger than it.

Iirc there are also statements of SSJ4 being "several times" stronger than G Oozaru Baby, which would make it >32000, though as I said, I'll give scans later as I'm super busy.
Click to expand...
This is noooot accurate, because you forgot about the basic SSJ form Baby used and that Golden Oozaru isn’t just a 10x buff on SSJ3. It can’t be for Goku’s power jump to make sense.

The gap is

Base Goku = 1 Goku

SSJ3 Goku = 400

Baby Vegeta >= 400 (matched and was superior to SSJ3)

Super Baby Vegeta = 800 (SSJ2 equivalent)

Super Baby Vegeta 2 = 3200 (SSJ3 equivalent)

Golden Oozaru Goku >= 3200 (matches/exceeds SB2, so at least that level)

Goku goes SSJ4, and Baby goes GO to match = 10.24 million (the gap between Golden Oozaru and SSJ4 is identical to the gap Golden Oozaru just crossed against SB2, so stack an additional 3200).

Both transformed a low points, so they ended up only displaying 50% of their real power = 20.48 million.

Also, Baby is usually considered the stronger of the two—By only a small amount, though. It’s not until Goku becomes a Full Power Super Saiyan 4 that he greatly exceeds Baby.

EDIT: (This also shakes out well math wise, coincidentally, as Baby’s numbers match Goku’s. 400 x 2 x 4 x 3200 = 10.24 Million and 3200 x 3200 = 10.24 Million).

My blog has scans for lots of stuff, so you can use that as a resource.
 
Last edited:
RedReaper616 said:
This is noooot accurate, because you forgot about the basic SSJ form Baby used and that Golden Oozaru isn’t just a 10x buff on SSJ3. It can’t be for Goku’s power jump to make sense.

The gap is

Base Goku = 1 Goku

SSJ3 Goku = 400

Baby Vegeta >= 400 (matched and was superior to SSJ3)

Super Baby Vegeta = 800 (SSJ2 equivalent)

Super Baby Vegeta 2 = 3200 (SSJ3 equivalent)

Golden Oozaru Goku >= 3200 (matches/exceeds SB2, so at least that level)

Goku goes SSJ4, and Baby goes GO to match = 10.24 million (the gap between Golden Oozaru and SSJ4 is identical to the gap Golden Oozaru just crossed against SB2, so stack an additional 3200).

Both transformed a low points, so they ended up only displaying 50% of their real power = 20.48 million.

Also, Baby is usually considered the stronger of the two—By only a small amount, though. It’s not until Goku becomes a Full Power Super Saiyan 4 that he greatly exceeds Baby.

EDIT: (This also shakes out well math wise, coincidentally, as Baby’s numbers match Goku’s. 400 x 2 x 4 x 3200 = 10.24 Million and 3200 x 3200 = 10.24 Million).

My blog has scans for lots of stuff, so you can use that as a resource.
Click to expand...
I'll check later.

If the million stuff is true, then SSJG issa fraud lmao.
 
RedReaper616 said:
Because I knew that GT scaling is funky and would have to be handled, I also went out of my way to chronicle the wacky scaling of the series.
Click to expand...
This blog is very, very hard to read, ngl.

There aren't sections and it seems just a bunch of text. Can you organize better (like dividing per era/saga) so it's actually readable?

Plus I'd like also:
  • A section only for the SSJ4 multiplier, given that many people, including myself, are interested in a direct explanation for it.
  • References, if there aren't sections per each episode.
 
StrymULTRA said:
This blog is very, very hard to read, ngl.

There aren't sections and it seems just a bunch of text. Can you organize better (like dividing per era/saga) so it's actually readable?

Plus I'd like also:
  • A section only for the SSJ4 multiplier, given that many people, including myself, are interested in a direct explanation for it.
  • References, if there aren't sections per each episode.
Click to expand...
Each separated paragraph is a section. It also lists the relevant episodes (Ex.: “GT Epi. 1-5 Goku ~ SSJ3 Buu Saga/WotD Goku”, “in Episode 23, Baby absorbs Rildo’s power.”)

Given you mean by Saga, sure, but at the time it didn’t seem necessary/relevant because all the information is covered quite explicitly.

As for a unique SSJ4 Section, yeah, I can do that.
 
StrymULTRA said:
That's the problem. Paragraphs aren't as clear.

Use headers for that.
Click to expand...
I gotta do stuff, so I’ll started (and probably finish) that in like an hour from now. That said, the SSJ4 multiplier is already listed quite clearly to you from my previous post, so it should be understandable/easy to get the grasp of.

I’ll repeat it here, though.

Goku is 1. SSJ3 is a 400x boost. Normal SSJ Baby exceeds SSJ3 Goku’s power.

Baby goes SSJ2 and SSJ3.

Meaning Baby’s strength is 400 x 2 x 4 Goku’s as Super Baby 2. (3200x Base Goku).

Goku becomes a Golden Oozaru and exceeds Baby. Meaning Golden Oozaru is at least 3200x Base Goku.

Baby becomes a Golden Oozaru himself (3200x his SB2 Self) and this power jump matches the power jump Goku gets when he goes SSJ4 from Golden Oozaru. (Meaning you need to stack 3200x on itself for the full breadth of SSJ4’s multiplier).

This means SSJ4 boosts Goku 10.24 Million times his base. This matches, mathematically, with the boosts Baby gets. (400 x 2 x 4 x 3200 = 10.24 Million). This perfectly matches what we see in the show, because Goku and Baby are comparable at this point, with Baby having a SLIGHT edge.

Then we’re shown that Baby is experiencing massive strain and isn’t operating at his real peak, and neither is Goku. Once Baby attains his peak, it’s stated in the Perfect Files Baby’s power Doubled. Once Goku attains his Full Power, he matches and exceeds Baby, so he Doubles as well. (20.48 Million, though likely more, as FPSSJ4 Goku trumped Full Power Baby by a considerable margin.)

That’s the end of SSJ4’s shown multiplier it gave Goku in the Baby Saga. There’s nothing more to explain or can be explained. That is literally all the information that is available.
 
Last edited:
I don't see why we'd apply a x3200 over Baby in his equivalent to SSJ3 form, when the Golden Oozaru's multiplier is x3200 over base Goku, not his SSJ3 form.
I guess it being from a whole different line of forms might mean it'd stack over SSJ3, but that does feel a bit speculative.
 
Eden_Warlock99 said:
I guess it being from a whole different line of forms might mean it'd stack over SSJ3, but that does feel a bit speculative.
Click to expand...
Tbh there's no reason to say that Baby's and Goku's are different.
RedReaper616 said:
I gotta do stuff, so I’ll started (and probably finish) that in like an hour from now. That said, the SSJ4 multiplier is already listed quite clearly to you from my previous post, so it should be understandable/easy to get the grasp of.

I’ll repeat it here, though.

Goku is 1. SSJ3 is a 400x boost. Normal SSJ Baby exceeds SSJ3 Goku’s power.

Baby goes SSJ2 and SSJ3.

Meaning Baby’s strength is 400 x 2 x 4 Goku’s as Super Baby 2. (3200x Base Goku).

Goku becomes a Golden Oozaru and exceeds Baby. Meaning Golden Oozaru is at least 3200x Base Goku.

Baby becomes a Golden Oozaru himself (3200x his SB2 Self) and this power jump matches the power jump Goku gets when he goes SSJ4 from Golden Oozaru. (Meaning you need to stack 3200x on itself for the full breadth of SSJ4’s multiplier).

This means SSJ4 boosts Goku 10.24 Million times his base. This matches, mathematically, with the boosts Baby gets. (400 x 2 x 4 x 3200 = 10.24 Million). This perfectly matches what we see in the show, because Goku and Baby are comparable at this point, with Baby having a SLIGHT edge.

Then we’re shown that Baby is experiencing massive strain and isn’t operating at his real peak, and neither is Goku. Once Baby attains his peak, it’s stated in the Perfect Files Baby’s power Doubled. Once Goku attains his Full Power, he matches and exceeds Baby, so he Doubles as well. (20.48 Million, though likely more, as FPSSJ4 Goku trumped Full Power Baby by a considerable margin.)

That’s the end of SSJ4’s shown multiplier it gave Goku in the Baby Saga. There’s nothing more to explain or can be explained. That is literally all the information that is available.
Click to expand...
I know, but I'd like you to make headers to make the blog more readable in general. Aestetics is also important.

Just tell if you don't know what I am talking about.
 
StrymULTRA said:
Technically if the Gold Oozaru is stacked on top of the peak form, shouldn't it be x4000 for Goku, given its SSJ3 x 10?
Click to expand...
Golden Oozaru stacks on top of SB2 because Baby permanently maintains a SSJ3 form. For Goku it he just transforms into Golden Oozaru directly from his base form.

Also, no. It’s not SSJ3 x 10. There’s no evidence of that…at all.
 
Last edited:
RedReaper616 said:
Remodeled AP Scaling List.

This should suffice.
Click to expand...
Just a heads up Omega Shenron is stated to be 数十倍 tens of times stronger than Syn Shenron not ten times. It’s just the English subs from back then being pretty bad so they translated it as ten times.

In Japanese, 数十倍 (Sujuubai) is 20-99x. So you need to increase the scaling by another 2 times for Omega Shenron at minimum.

Edit: Ignore the top part as I forgot what they said myself I’m a dumbass. Thought they said tens of times back then. But I guess I’m misremembering things because of how long it’s been since I last saw GT.

Also like isn’t Golden Oozaru basically just Oozaru stacked on Super Saiyan 3? So shouldn’t it just be 10x Super Saiyan 3? Like Golden Oozaru is treated as bigger than a 8x gap so it being a 10x boost to SS3 just like how normal Oozaru is 10x Base would make sense.
 
Last edited:
Peter1129 said:
Just a heads up Omega Shenron is stated to be 数十倍 tens of times stronger than Syn Shenron not ten times. It’s just the English subs from back then being pretty bad so they translated it as ten times.
Click to expand...
Wait. Then what about the GT Perfect Files saying 10x? Is that also just a mistranslation?
Peter1129 said:
In Japanese, 数十倍 (Sujuubai) is 20-99x. So you need to increase the scaling by another 2 times for Omega Shenron at minimum.
Click to expand...
This is interesting…
Peter1129 said:
Also like isn’t Golden Oozaru basically just Oozaru stacked on Super Saiyan 3? So shouldn’t it just be 10x Super Saiyan 3? Like Golden Oozaru is treated as bigger than a 8x gap so it being a 10x boost to SS3 just like how normal Oozaru is 10x Base would make sense.
Click to expand...
No. I don’t know where anyone gets this idea. Nothing in the (Sub) show or Perfect Files suggests it’s 10x SSJ3. The Form itself explicitly works on Potential Unlock logic. We’re just mathing it out for the same reason we mathed out SSG, for indexing, accuracy, etc.
 
Last edited:
RedReaper616 said:
Wait. Then what about the GT Perfike Files saying 10x? Is that also just a mistranslation?

This is interesting…

No. I don’t know where anyone gets this idea. Nothing in the (Sub) show or Perfect Files suggests it’s 10x SSJ3. The Form itself explicitly works on Potential Unlock logic. We’re just mathing it out for the same reason we mathed out SSG, for indexing, accuracy, etc.
Click to expand...
No ignore what I said about the top part. I’m just an idiot forgetting my GT stuff. Was probably confusing Omega Shenron’s ten times or greater with Potara’s tens of times statement.

Fair enough I guess. I just personally always treated it as 10x SS3 off the site because it’s a bigger than 8x boost and normal Oozaru is 10x Base.

But yeah everything looks good to me.
 
How is Super Baby 2 a SSJ3 multiplier? I saw something about files, if someone could link me where it says that. Because design and name wise, Super Baby 2 looks more like SSJ2 (Not to mention he's using Vegeta's body who never had a SSJ3 form)

Edit: Nvm, I found this.

But I found a different issue altogether. I saw in the blog that in Baby's case, his Golden Ape form is calculated to be 3200x stronger than SB2/SSJ3 form. How did that happen? Golden Ape was reported as 3200x Goku's base form and due to being stronger than SB2 who is 8x stronger than SSJ1 Baby Vegeta who is stronger than SSJ3 Goku. But wouldn't Golden Ape Baby only be 3200x his own base form, instead of 3200x his SB2/SSJ3e form? It looks like it's being treated as a 400 * 3200 = 1280000x multiplier which stacks to SSJ4 being a 10240000x multiplier. Being consistent Golden Ape being a 3200x multiplier for baby would simply be an at least 25600x multiplier for SSJ4 Goku.

But other than that, it looks good to me.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
But I found a different issue altogether. I saw in the blog that in Baby's case, his Golden Ape form is calculated to be 3200x stronger than SB2/SSJ3 form. How did that happen? Golden Ape was reported as 3200x Goku's base form and due to being stronger than SB2 who is 8x stronger than SSJ1 Baby Vegeta who is stronger than SSJ3 Goku. But wouldn't Golden Ape Baby only be 3200x his own base form, instead of 3200x his SB2/SSJ3e form? It looks like it's being treated as a 400 * 3200 = 1280000x multiplier which stacks to SSJ4 being a 10240000x multiplier. Being consistent Golden Ape being a 3200x multiplier for baby would simply be an at least 25600x multiplier for SSJ4 Goku.
Click to expand...
The argument is that Baby Vegeta is x3200 Base Goku, G. Oozaru Goku is stronger than Baby, and Baby Vegeta stacked G Oozaru on his SSJ3.
 
StrymULTRA said:
No, that was a mandela effect of mine.

The perfect files actually say that their powers were equal, so my bad!
Click to expand...
All good. I just wanted to make sure I hadn’t missed anything. I spent a lot of time pouring over the Perfect Files so I would’ve felt extremely silly for missing it.
 
RedReaper616 said:
I mean, it’s a GT guide (A Hero’s Legacy is GT’s Special), so presumably it’d strictly be used for the original Toei Continuity (more specifically, connected to stuff connected to GT.)
Click to expand...
I wouldn't mind SSJG not using that.

I have that form as x4 million at bare minimum though.
 
You could probably wrangle a higher multiplier for SSJ4 using the Vegito statement, but I don’t care to try and figure that out. Also like, I dunno how accurate that’d be with how specific and self-explanatory the scaling is.
 
RedReaper616 said:
You could probably wrangle a higher multiplier for SSJ4 using the Vegito statement, but I don’t care to try and figure that out. Also like, I dunno how accurate that’d be with how specific and self-explanatory the scaling is.
Click to expand...
Actually Vegito is lower.

If you use Vados' statement of the power being multiplied tens of times, and the base being above the sum of the peak forms available by the base forms:

(Goku SSJ3 + Vegeta SSJ2) * 20 = (400+100) * 20 = 10000

That's the minimal gap between base Vegito and base Goku.
 
StrymULTRA said:
Actually Vegito is lower.

If you use Vados' statement of the power being multiplied tens of times, and the base being above the sum of the peak forms available by the base forms:

(Goku SSJ3 + Vegeta SSJ2) * 20 = (400+100) * 20 = 10000

That's the minimal gap between base Vegito and base Goku.
Click to expand...
Huh. I figured it would bet more because it’s the full breadth of Vegito’s cosmic strength as a form, but I guess it be lower.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Ednaxel2
  • Locked
Dragon Ball Toei: Bits & Bobs
Replies
16
Views
2K
Ednaxel2
Ednaxel2
Demon_Lord18
Goku's minor dowgrade Dragon Ball (toei)
Replies
8
Views
1K
UnoRebaixadO
UnoRebaixadO
Ednaxel2
Dragon Ball: Fixing page names & quick Vegito upgrade
Replies
12
Views
771
Vietthai96
Vietthai96
Vietthai96
  • Locked
Dragon Ball CRT: The..........................Dragon Balls?
Replies
34
Views
2K
LephyrTheRevanchist
LephyrTheRevanchist
Omegas03
Weird scaling in Toei profiles.
2 3
Replies
101
Views
6K
KaizerCone
Back
Top