Groudon's "One-Hit Kill"

[GyroNutz]

So apparently, Groudon has One Hit Kill on his profile for being able to use fissure. I have a few problems with that.

• Fissure's Description: Fissure is described as thus: "The user opens up a fissure in the ground and drops the target in. The target instantly faints if it hits.

The first bit seems alright; a move called fissure should logically be able to open a fissure in the ground. However this being a one hit kill seems to be a case of game mechanics; logically, opening a fissure in the ground and dropping your opponent into it shouldn't be anything impressive whatsoever to other tier 6s/5s.

• Inconsistencies: Other Pokemon profiles, such as Camerupt, have fissure being listed as BFR. This is a far more logical option, since dropping your opponent into a fissure is simply just taking them away from the battlefield, and I believe Groudon's profile should be changed to reflect this.

 

[AstralKing7]

Oh yeah this needed to be revised based on the description unless there is some more information thats missing

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

This is clearly a game mechanic OHKO because their is no game mechanic to counter being dropped in a hole so it should be removed,at best this is a BFR of sorts via earth manipulation.

 

[Rocker1189]

100% game mechanics how did this get through as OHKO...

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

You do know using Camerupt would just mean we need to just revise Camerupt to have it right?

Anyways, im not really seeing the problem with it being OHKO. Being dropped into the ground is what causes the OHK to happen and, like other OHKO moves in the verse, its not game mechanics.

 

[Rocker1189]

You do know using Camerupt would just mean we need to just revise Camerupt to have it right?
Anyways, im not really seeing the problem with it being OHKO. Being dropped into the ground is what causes the OHK to happen and, like other OHKO moves in the verse, its not game mechanics.

Yes, but why what happens when you are dropped into the ground, being dropped into the groud does nto suddenly kill someone is there any showing of this outside of games?

 

[AstralKing7]

That could literally be PIS but since it's a video game it's Game mechanics because it sounds like you get defeated because of the damage you take which doesn't make sense if it's someone stronger that's hitting the ground

 

[GyroNutz]

You do know using Camerupt would just mean we need to just revise Camerupt to have it right?
Anyways, im not really seeing the problem with it being OHKO. Being dropped into the ground is what causes the OHK to happen and, like other OHKO moves in the verse, its not game mechanics.

Camerupt was an example, I've seen this on more than one profile.

And I can say the same thing. What makes other OHKO moves, other than game mechanics, actual examples of OHK. Besides Sheer Cold, which has an actual logical explanation as to why it can be considered OHK.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

I agree with this being bfr. Makes no logical sense to assume it's not.

I also disagree with stuff like guilottine being OHKO to be honest

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Sheer Cold is absolute zero,not OHKO since we already know what it is.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

For one, OHKO moves like Guilotine have been shown to work as a OHKO outside of the games before so that argument really doesnt do much.

Second, look at the OHK page you yourself linked:

"One Hit Kill is a term that refers to abilities and attacks that are explicitly meant to kill the target with a single use. This can happen any variety of ways, but the target must be struck down and killed with a single use of the corresponding ability to qualify, so this term does not apply to attacks that instantly kill the target after multiple stages.

OHK powers are generally considered to be broke since they often involve some manner of Durability Negation or a major hax component that makes them very hard to counter."

The move would simply have that "hax component" as a part of its effects. However, this is only me. We should wait on Cal and some other users to give their opinions on this too of course.

 

[GyroNutz]

Absolute zero is listed as an example in the OHK page

 

[Rocker1189]

For one, OHKO moves like Guilotine have been shown to work as a OHKO outside of the games before so that argument really doesnt do much.
Second, look at the OHK page you yourself linked:

"One Hit Kill is a term that refers to abilities and attacks that are explicitly meant to kill the target with a single use. This can happen any variety of ways, but the target must be struck down and killed with a single use of the corresponding ability to qualify, so this term does not apply to attacks that instantly kill the target after multiple stages.

OHK powers are generally considered to be broke since they often involve some manner of Durability Negation or a major hax component that makes them very hard to counter."

The move would simply have that "hax component" as a part of its effects. However, this is only me. We should wait on Cal and some other users to give their opinions on this too of course.

And for that to happen there has to be a reason that Guillotine and Fissure OHKO, because there is none, the person just falls into a hole...

 

[Wokistan]

Pretty sure fissure's potency would scale to the pokemon using it. A 6-B using it should be able to one shot 6-Bs, for instance, but not necessarily like a 5-C. It seems to me to either be the classic fiction overestimating falls or crushing. Guilloutine is probably just like that due to decapitation.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

I literally just pointed out that Guilotine has proven to work as a OHKO outside of the games before.

How is that not a reason?

 

[Wokistan]

instakill moves are often just moves that hit way harder than the rest of the user's arsenal.

 

[AstralKing7]

Tbf we need to only discuss hole drop lol can't believe that's a insta kill

 

[Rocker1189]

I literally just pointed out that Guilotine has proven to work as a OHKO outside of the games before.
How is that not a reason?

My literal point is that these seem like just high damage moves with no reason they should work as hax. one is literally a decapitation move while the other is just causing someone to fall into a hole.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Thats something that you'll need to take up with the entire OHK page itself to get its definition changed as I quoted what it says for you guys.

"High damage moves" would just simply be one shotting opponents because of the hax compotent in them that allows them to do that. Simple as that. If some dont agree with it, you might need to make a thread about the OHK page in general.

 

[Wokistan]

I probably will tbh

Prove that they're hax and not just instakills because being crushed or decapitated is fatal.

 

[Rocker1189]

There is nothing wrong with the OHK page I am saying that Fissure is not OHK, because it is in fact not hax it is just a hole that people fall in.

 

[NeoZex6399]

I also disagree with stuff like guilottine being OHKO to be honest

"A one-hit KO, pincer attack."

~GSC

"A vicious, tearing attack with pincers. The foe will faint instantly if this attack hits"

~DPPt

"A vicious, tearing attack with big pincers. The target faints instantly if this attack hits."

~SM

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Hax component =/= hax so don't put that in my mouth.

Even if it did mean its hax, then that just means Fissure has an added hax affect once manipulating the ground.

 

[Rocker1189]

Hax component =/= hax so don't put that in my mouth.
Even if it did mean its hax, then that just means Fissure has an added hax affect once manipulating the ground.

Which you then have to prove that it does. As far as we know opponents just fall in.

 

[Wokistan]

Actually it kinda does. If it has a hax component to the attack, that attack is hax. Not all hax is stuff like law and conceptual manip. Arguing over this is unnecessarily pedantic anyways.

We're not going to make that assumption. You need to prove this is the case.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Then it means the attack is both hax and power based. Like how Dialgas Roar of Time and Palkias Spacial Rend warp time/space but are still power based beams.

We have official descriptions of what the move does. That proves the hax compotent from the OHK page applies to it.

 

[Wokistan]

Yeah basically.

No. Saying that it kills in one hit does not mean we assume there's a component to that. You know what else can kill someone in one hit? A bullet to the head. That is not hax, that is just a gun.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

False equivalncy for reasons that are pretty obvious.

A bullet to the head kills you because its a direct hit to it and a humans durability is obviously very low. Falling into a hole, without an added effect like the move says it has, doesn't do anything.

That makes it more than that.

 

[Wokistan]

Falling into a hole kills you because fiction overestimates how dangerous a fall is.

 

[Wokistan]

Guillotine kills you because generally decapitation is lethal.

 

[Rocker1189]

False equivalncy for reasons that are pretty obvious.
A bullet to the head kills you because its a direct hit to it and a humans durability is obviously very low. Falling into a hole, without an added effect like the move says it has, doesn't do anything.

That makes it more than that.

The effect is just whate happens in the game and I suspect that i thas more to do with knocking the opponent out of the arena (which is why it is useless against flying types).

 

[Wokistan]

Horn drill can be explained as just being way stronger than the other attacks, and Sheer cold is apparently AZ and ice is a surprisingly lethal power as is.

 

[GyroNutz]

All the official descriptions of the move say about it are 'it opens up a fissure and drops the opponent in' which would not be a one hit kill, nor would it have a 'hax component' to it (that's really a stretch lol).

There are examples where fissure doesn't even knock them out, but rather drops them in the ground like it says it does (PA manga, 38). You'll have to show evidence that it's anything more than game mechanics, because everything points to it being underground BFR at best.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

IDK about this, but based on what was decided in the Yu-Gi-Oh revisions if One hit kill is treated that way outside the games it's legit

 

[GyroNutz]

Also, there was an anime episode where Groudon hit Kyogre cleanly with a fissure and doesn't knock it out in one.

Groudon and Kyogre, naturally, being equals in AP.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

Also, there was an anime episode where Groudon hit Kyogre cleanly with a fissure and doesn't knock it out in one.

Groudon and Kyogre, naturally, being equals in AP.

Does it actually fall in?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Falling into a hole kills you because fiction overestimates how dangerous a fall is.

Is that why everytime Ash and his friends fell into a hole they got killed? Of course not.

Knocking you unconscious wouldnt mean your actually hurt though. It would have to do more than that in order to be a damaging type move, otherwise Fissure wouldnt be considered the latter.

>It's a stretch

Just like the OHK page saying a move with a "hax component" isnt a stretch either? And I like how you said I have to show evidence, yet you only reference a manga chapter without showing that to express your point.

 

[NeoZex6399]

Guillotine kills you because generally decapitation is lethal.

Except it's never been portrayed as a decapitation.

 

[Wokistan]

The thing is, we can't just have a mechanic-less generic instakill. If its not like Sheer Cold where the reasoning for it is made clear, we'd just have to assume its an attack with much higher damage than normal.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

The thing is, we can't just have a mechanic-less generic instakill. If its not like Sheer Cold where the reasoning for it is made clear, we'd just have to assume its an attack with much higher damage than normal.

If Guliotine is shown to work that should be enough, unless Fissure is completely contradicted most of the time