Groudon's "One-Hit Kill"

[Wokistan]

@Neo

Because pokemon is kid friendly. A guillotine was made for the express purpose of decapitation. Even in the anime and stuff, it's a strike that lands on the neck. Blows to the neck are also pretty fatal. Where I live, a hard enough blow to the neck is considered lethal force in the same vein as a weapon would be, and would literally justify shooting your assailant.

 

[GyroNutz]

If Guliotine is shown to work that should be enough, unless Fissure is completely contradicted most of the time

The mechanics for Guillotine are different, so it wouldn't really be enough. Especially when I've shown 2 anti-feats and Kukui has yet to show any evidence of it being a one hit kill move out of game mechanics

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Anyways, checking the chapter you named, Fissure was never used as a way to faint the opponent. Giovanni told Rhydon to use it just so Red would fall in but he stops himself from falling by catching onto the ledge.

This doesnt disprove the OHK effect since Red never actually fell in. It just means the move is extremely limited in causing this (which I agree with btw).

 

[Yobo_Blue]

I've asked for details about those anti-feats, and it's almost as if you didn't answer me...

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Also, there was an anime episode where Groudon hit Kyogre cleanly with a fissure and doesn't knock it out in one.
Groudon and Kyogre, naturally, being equals in AP.

You just explained why Groudon didn't instantly beat Kyogre. It's because they're equals.

Trio equals like Dialga/Palkia, Lugia/Ho-Oh, Xerneas/Yveltal naturally counter the other has or else they wouldnt be equals for the hundreds of years they battle (that reminds me....).

 

[Wokistan]

We don't have to disprove it here though. You need to prove its lethality beyond it being a long fall and arguably BFR, or the possibility of crushing when the fissure is fixed.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

It's at least incap tho

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

We did prove it by giving the official descriptions for Fissure. That means you'd need something outside of the games to counter it. And If there's nothing outside of the games that disproves the effect from the moves description then there's nothing that suggests reasonable doubt.

 

[GyroNutz]

You just explained why Groudon didn't instantly beat Kyogre. It's because they're equals.

Trio equals like Dialga/Palkia, Lugia/Ho-Oh, Xerneas/Yveltal naturally counter the other has or else they wouldnt be equals for the hundreds of years they battle (that reminds me....).

An OHK should at least be able to one shot someone equal to you.

If fissure isn't special, then it's literally just a long fall with nothing special about it.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

Does it actually fall in?

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

What kind of OHKO doesn't affect someone you are comparable to?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

But it wouldnt because the pokemon in question, Groudon and Kyogre, are explicity equals in everything. One counters everything from the other.

That would be like saying Xerneas stomps Yveltal because ones a Fairy Type and the others a Dark Type.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

What kind of OHKO doesn't affect someone you are comparable to?

Someone whos resistant to literally everything you have? If this wasnt the case, Groudon wouldve beaten Kyogre a very long time ago. Or Kyogre would since it has Sheer Cold.

 

[GyroNutz]

Wouldn't it make much more sense if Fissure wasn't an OHKO move outside of game mechanics, and that's the reason why it and kyogre can fight on even grounds for years on end?

@Yobo no, but I don't see how that's relevant. We've already established that a long fall = a long fall with nothing special about it

 

[Yobo_Blue]

Except that's not how it works. If it didn't fall in the move wasn't complete, so it's not a anti feat

 

[GyroNutz]

We've already established that a long fall = a long fall with nothing special about it

 

[Yobo_Blue]

Except that's not how it works, especially if other one hit kills do their thing

 

[GyroNutz]

Also I haven't seen an example of fissure actually ko'ing someone outside of games yet

 

[Yobo_Blue]

Also I haven't seen an example of fissure actually ko'ing someone outside of games yet

Because it's never actually hit.

 

[NeoZex6399]

@Neo
Because pokemon is kid friendly. A guillotine was made for the express purpose of decapitation. Even in the anime and stuff, it's a strike that lands on the neck. Blows to the neck are also pretty fatal. Where I live, a hard enough blow to the neck is considered lethal force in the same vein as a weapon would be, and would literally justify shooting your assailant.

https://youtu.be/-7kTgyUbdDU?t=45

Pretty sure decapitations don't cause a big explosion.

Also with your kind of argument, Cagnazzo shouldn't have death manipulation because tsunamis can kill people in real life.

 

[GyroNutz]

Because it's never actually hit.

It hit Red and he survived simply by holding onto a ledge

It hit Kyogre and was treated like a normal attack

 

[Yobo_Blue]

Except he didn't fall in with Kyogre, and it wasn't meant to kill in Red's case

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Not to mention Kyogre still counters whatever Groudon can use as they're complete equals.

 

[GyroNutz]

Giovanni was definitely trying to kill Red. He ordered Nidoqueen to impale Red moments later

 

[Yobo_Blue]

Giovanni was definitely trying to kill Red. He ordered Nidoqueen to impale Red moments later

Not in that specific order tho

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Lapras

Just list it as a stronger move.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

Then remove OHKO

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I agree that OHKO needs to be removed, btw. And BFR for Fissure is what should be listed.

 

[GyroNutz]

Not in that specific order tho

Ok, he used fissure, destroyed Red's pokeballs and then got Nidoqueen to try and impale him. His intentions were to kill

 

[GyroNutz]

I agree that OHKO needs to be removed, btw. And BFR for Fissure is what should be listed.

Since most people in the thread also agree, can I make the change on Groudon's profile?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Yeah but because Red didnt actually fall in, you cant claim the move wouldnt have instantly OHKO'd him. He'd have to fall in first and then no-sell it for you to say that.

Doesnt matter really tho since Cal agrees to remove it.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Yes

 

[Wokistan]

I can't seem to find a page for Cagazzno. Still nothing that indicates it being anything beyond a stronger attack.

 

[Wokistan]

Why did that post just now and not before

My internet is just great

 

[Chartate101]

I'm meutral either way, but 1 thing to bring up: can MOVES be scaled? If Sheer Cold is OHKO, then would other OHKOs scale to ut? They are treated as equals....

 

[Wokistan]

Sheer cold OKHOs due to AZ temperatures tho. I think we'd just scale these moves to the pokemon that use them, albeit with the capability to instantly kill or cripple those at their level. Otherwise you get tier 6 diglet or something.