Grey Hulk and Thing Revision

[Antvasima]

He is generally outclassed by Silver Surfer level beings.

 

[LordTracer]

Based on all the scans posted here, that doesn't really seem to be the case.

 

[Hellbeast1]

Plus I'm sure there's many more instances of this

I'm personally surprised the reaction is so negative considering no decent counter argument has been brought to the table

 

[Antvasima]

That's because we don't have the time to look through and post scans for all of the times that he has been outclassed.

Still, there is this: [1]

 

[LordTracer]

Sentry is significantly stronger than the other 4-Bs like Thor, so... that's not that big of a strike against Thing.

 

[MJF6219]

Yea Sentry is treated like the strongest 4-B in Marvel so I don't think he's the best character to use to try to debunk Things consistency.

 

[Hellbeast1]

Ant that's rubbish and you know it. Sentry is miles above the other 4-B characters so I do t know what you mean to prove with that scan other then my point

 

[Hellbeast1]

Grey Hulk is Grey not black (it's kinda in the name)

That is also not a reason at all for ignoring our proposal

In any case I've already spoken to you about similar speech and if you want to keep going I can just go and report you

 

[Antvasima]

The Hulk has technically beated up the Sentry, and Blue Marvel gave him a good fight. Thor has damaged him as well.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

For every single scan of Thing fighting Silver Surfer or whoever you can show, you can find dozens upon dozens of scans of him being far lower level. Nobody cares that "X character fought Y character and didn't die in a picosecond", this is Marvel. Everyone can fight everyone.

 

[Hellbeast1]

To take a page from your book these showings are out of line with how the character is often portrayed

Also technically beaten means what exactly? Unless you want to scale all the 4-Bs to the MegaFoe it's fair to say Sentry is superior (hell I just skimmed his page and a few respects threads which reiterate the same point)

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

And how about the time where Thing fought Gladiator and not only he couldn't do no damage to him, he hurt himself attacking the hero?

 

[Hellbeast1]

Doesnt Gladiator's power commonly fluctuate in universe?

Besides I reiterate we suggested Possibly 4-B rather then outright 4-B

 

[Hellbeast1]

I'd also like to mention Thing trading blows with Red Hulk, Namor (who is already possibly 4-B I believe), Silver Surfer and Green Hulk on occasion

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Doesnt Gladiator's power commonly fluctuate in universe?
Besides I reiterate we suggested Possibly 4-B rather then outright 4-B

Gladiator's 4-B feat was performed in the exact same issue. So that alone proves that the authors don't think Thing has that level of strength.

Also, Red Hulk and Green Hulk fluctuate their powers and Silver Surfer jobs A LOT.

 

[Hellbeast1]

Once again the writers not thinking something Is a certain level of power isn't exactly a be All end all type thing (Should we downgrade the peak humans because the writers don't consider them that strong?)

Indeed but there's a point where it stops being inconsistency, with the amount of times Thing has gone up against higher level characters I'm thinking we're soon to hit that threshold

 

[Antvasima]

I still agree with Matthew.

 

[Hellbeast1]

You'll forgive me if I'm not swayed by that point

 

[LordTracer]

I'm still not seeing any good reason for Thing to not be 4-B. Like even if y'all think he's significantly weaker than the likes of Hulk, he can still be 4-B because this is a massive tier.

 

[Antvasima]

Marvel doesn't work like that. Characters that are enormously or even infinitely weaker than each other still regularly match it up. The Thing is officially considered to be on a level with Colossus and pre-Hulkbuster Iron Man. That is all. We cannot start to scale everybody to everybody.

You should also ask all of the people that I mentioned earlier to comment here.

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

Is that according to the data books? Because if so, I thought we decided to shaft all that month's ago?

 

[LordTracer]

Officially considered in what, exactly? And that portrayal contradicts his very consistent feats of matching 4-B characters. Nobody wants you to scale everyone to everyone else, but considering that there's more in-comic evidence to support Thing being 4-B than anything lower (or at least, there's only been evidence of him being 4-B shown and there's been nothing to the contrary), it is not unreasonable to think Thing is 4-B.

 

[Antvasima]

The databooks are Marvel's own way of roughly gauging the relative power levels of the characters, unless very blatantly contradicted.

 

[Antvasima]

Making almost every single tier 5 character tier 4 instead also seems extremely unreliable.

Regardless, if you want anything to happen here, I strongly recommend that you ask all of the members that I mentioned earlier to comment here.

 

[LordTracer]

Like how Thing's very consistent showings of squaring up with 4-Bs contradicts him only being Colossus or Iron Man level. And not every Tier 5 would become Tier 4.

- Colossus (As I've said a few times now, as have others, he should be scaled to the likes of Cyclops or Magneto, not Thing)

- Cyclops (He's getting downgraded from Tier 5 anyways)

- Havok (Scales to Cyclops)

- Human Torch (Scales off of his own 5-B feat)

- Kid Kaiju (Is 5-C... for some reason)

- Magneto (Has his own 5-B feat)

- Mister Sinister (Scales to Cyclops)

- Spectrum (Has her own 5-B feat)

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I suppose that investigation seems to be a valid point, but you should still ask the people I cited near the beginning to give input here.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Hulk's being straight-up 4-B is wrong

 

[Antvasima]

Possibly. We would have to set up a plan for how to properly revise our profiles that scale from him before this is accepted though.

 

[Antvasima]

Also, we need to fix some of the profiles that Tracer mentioned.

 

[LordTracer]

The only ones that really need "fixing" are Colossus, Cyclops, Havok and Mister Sinister. And there's already a discussion about Cyclops' downgrade in another thread, so all there really is to do is just... not scale Colossus from Thing.

 

[ByAsura]

He is generally outclassed by Silver Surfer level beings.

The Thing is generally outclassed by Hulk, yes, but he's still portrayed as comparable. There's even one instance where The Leder calls him weaker and less durable than the Hulk, so he doubles The Thing's power, allowing him to overpower the Hulk with very little effort and mostly by accident.

There's actually very few instances where he's completely overpowered by the Silver Surfer. Two actually portray The Thing as stronger, unless he draws upon greater amounts power cosmic or external energy sources.

Also, Hulk, Red Hulk and the Silver Surfer's powers do tend to fluctuate, but they've fought The Thing on so many occasions (here's a list of the Hulk alone), not just in the classic era where everything was inconsistent. He's also fought other 4-B characters, like Amadeus Cho.

 

[Antvasima]

Just a note that Kid Kaiju likely needs to be revised as well, if his statistics are poorly motivated.

 

[Antvasima]

You can ask the following members to comment here if you wish, especially the first two:

Kepekley23, Matthew Schroeder, Zensum, C2 of Omego, Crimson Azoth, Eficiente, Qawsedf234, PrinceOfTheMorning, Ultima Reality, SuperAPM, Zark2099, ClassicNESfa.

Anyway, has anybody done this yet? It is very important.

 

[LordTracer]

Well all of the feats given for Kid Kaiju are 4-B, so idk where the 5-C came from at all.

And I asked C2 and Zark for their input.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thanks. It would be best if you ask the others as well though.

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

Personally, I don't mind Thing having a Classic and Modern era key. Mainly because Thing, IIRC, does actually train and attempt to grow stronger. Simply put, Thing is much stronger now then he was when he first got exposed to those cosmic rays decades ago.

Will say more a little later, currently eating.

 

[MJF6219]

Yea I recall him training before as well.

And if Modern Thing is indeed stronger then he use to be, then both keys would likely be put as 4-B since he has a ton of consistency with fighting 4-B characters both back then and now currently.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

MF, I find it odd that you are seemingly okay with this despite making the whole rant about street levelers before.

Thing has no feats anywhere near this level.

 

[LordTracer]

Except there's been several feats posted of him fighting 4-B people...?

 

[Hellbeast1]

^

(Besides we all know the street tier downgrade was whack)