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Granblue Fantasy Scaling CRT Part 2 easy mode(1 more staff input)

TheGreatJedi13

TheGreatJedi13

5,482
3,549
Since the Thread for the cosmology got updated and accepted here

A tldr :
Astral Realm and Dimension of Precipice 5D
Boundary 6D
Crimson Horizon/Chaos/otherworld 6D
Pandemonium as a whole 6D for being able to shatter the dimensional barrier between crimson and sky realm

Etemenanki / Omnipotent's throne(holy seat genesis)(beyond the boundary) / 7D

we will now proceed with tiering and this is my most hated part because MC fought everyone but we can't be lax about it.

With that said let us start with Captain

Captain​

We'll be changing his endgame tier
possibly 1-C scales from Avatar who is said to be capable of destroying Etemenanki
Tier: 6-A | 5-A likely 4-C | At least 4-A, likely 2-B, possibly Low 1-C | Low 1-C

Attack Potency: Continent level+ (Capable of fighting against Tiamat) | Large Planet level (Superior to Primal Beasts like Corow and Ifrit) likely Star level (fought and defeated Luminary Knights and defeated Eternals such as Seofon) | At least Multi-Solar System level, (Able to defeat Base Sandalphon and comparable to Archangels, who are far superior to Shiva and Europa, and Acquired all Seraphic Weapons from Primarch without being consumed by it), likely Multiverse level (Superior than Eternals with their Revenant weapon, Defeated Akasha, defeated the 10 Arcarum such as Death after it has finished collecting data to destroy the entire Sky-Realm, Fought Inchoate World), possibly Low Complex Multiverse level (Fought and defeated Avatar who is built to destroy Etemenanki from within, although during his creation Lucilius himself was unsure of the exact strength needed to destroy it)[63] | Low Complex Multiverse level (Capable of fighting against Ultimate Bahamut, defeated all 10 Eternals with their Revenant weapon at the same time, defeated Wardant, Beelzebub, Cosmos, Belial and Lucilius)
Tier: 6-A | 5-A likely 4-C | At least 4-A, up to 2-B, possibly 1-C | Low 1-C to 1-C
Attack Potency: Continent level+ (Capable of fighting against Tiamat) | Large Planet level (Superior to Primal Beasts like Corow and Ifrit) likely Star level (fought and defeated Luminary Knights and defeated Eternals such as Seofon) | At least Multi-Solar System level, (Able to defeat Base Sandalphon and comparable to Archangels, who are far superior to Shiva and Europa, and Acquired all Seraphic Weapons from Primarch without being consumed by it), likely Multiverse level (Superior than Eternals with their Revenant weapon, Defeated Akasha, defeated the 10 Arcarum such as Death after it has finished collecting data to destroy the entire Sky-Realm, Fought Inchoate World), possibly Low Complex Multiverse level (Fought and defeated Avatar who is built to destroy Etemenanki from within which is a place that exist beyond all of creation including Otherworld yet also encompasses all of it, although during his creation Lucilius himself was unsure of the exact strength needed to destroy it)[63] | Low Complex Multiverse level to Complex Multiverse level (Capable of fighting against Ultimate Bahamut, defeated all 10 Eternals with their Revenant weapon at the same time, defeated Wardant, Beelzebub, Cosmos, Orologia, Belial and Lucilius)
Tier: 6-A | 5-A likely 4-C | At least 4-A, likely 2-B | 1-C | 1-C
Attack Potency: Continent level+ (Capable of fighting against Tiamat) | Large Planet level (Superior to Primal Beasts like Corow and Ifrit) likely Star level (fought and defeated Luminary Knights and defeated Eternals such as Seofon) | At least Multi-Solar System level, (Able to defeat Base Sandalphon and comparable to Archangels, who are far superior to Shiva and Europa, and Acquired all Seraphic Weapons from Primarch without being consumed by it), likely Multiverse level (Superior than Eternals with their Revenant weapon, Defeated Akasha, defeated the 10 Arcarum such as Death after it has finished collecting data to destroy the entire Sky-Realm, Fought Inchoate World) | Complex Multiverse level (Fought and defeated Avatar who is built to destroy Etemenanki from within which is a place that exist beyond all of creation including Otherworld yet also encompasses all of it | Complex Multiverse level (Capable of fighting against Ultimate Bahamut, defeated all 10 Eternals with their Revenant weapon at the same time, defeated Wardant, Beelzebub, Cosmos, Orologia, Belial and Lucilius)
Key: Base | Chapter 63+ | What Makes the Sky Blue | Endgame
Key: Base | Chapter 63+ | What Makes the Sky Blue | Paradise Lost | Endgame

Shalem​

Very simple just change her tier to 1-C and complex Multiverse

Beelzebub​

His 2nd key scale to his feat of being able to destroy pandemonium whose mass is enough to destroy the dimensional barrier/boundary between Crimson Horizon and Sky-realm which is 6D. While his last key scales to his form which he claims to be far stronger than Lucilius and the whole crew is unable to harm him with their attacks with only 50% output from Beelzebub
At least 4-A | Low 1-C | Low 1-C

Multi-Solar System level (Mentioned by Lucilius to be as strong as Lucifer after he absorbed the Primal Core into his being that is above the likes of Primarchs and Belial that is far superior to Europa), | Low Complex Multiverse level (killed and caused Pandemonium to crash towards the dimensional boundary and possessed Avatar's power of void that is intended to destroy Etemenanki from within.[13] fought Sandalphon and Captain) | Low Complex Multiverse level (His Chaos Body is completely far above Lucilius has ever achieved and easily brushed off the Entire crew's full assault while using only 50% chaos power within him)
At least 4-A | Low 1-C, 1-C with Avatar's Power | 1-C

Multi-Solar System level (Mentioned by Lucilius to be as strong as Lucifer after he absorbed the Primal Core into his being that is above the likes of Primarchs and Belial that is far superior to Europa), | Low Complex Multiverse level, Complex Multiverse level with Avatar's Power (killed and caused Pandemonium to crash towards the dimensional boundary and possessed Avatar's power of void that is intended to destroy Etemenanki from within. [13] fought Sandalphon and Captain) | Complex Multiverse level (His Chaos Body is completely far above Lucilius has ever achieved and easily brushed off the Entire crew's full assault while using only 50% chaos power within him)

Bahamut​

This profile needs to be overhauled or changed since it needs more keys but for the sake of being up to date

At least 4-A, likely 2-B, possibly Low 1-C when Unchained | Low 1-C

At least Multi-Solar System level (Superior to all Primal Beasts, including Akasha at base and fought Astral Armies during the invasion), likely Multiverse level, possibly Low Complex Multiverse level when Unchained (With his power as Sky-God unleashed he is able to destroy and regenerate the entire Sky-realm along with its countless timelines and should be on equal import as Astral God who created The Astral Realm) | Low Complex Multiverse level (Comparable to Astral God in terms of his power of Destruction who Created the Astral Realm that exists on a higher position than the Sky-realm's Plane of existence. As they are God they are reality and the World themselves and at the same time not for each respective realm and to them Creations are just paintings while Crimson Horizon is their Canvass)
At least 4-A, likely 2-B, possibly 1-C when Unchained | 1-C

At least Multi-Solar System level (Superior to all Primal Beasts, including Akasha at the base and fought Astral Armies during the invasion), likely Multiverse level, possibly Low Complex Multiverse level when Unchained (With his power as Sky-God unleashed he is able to destroy and regenerate the entire Sky-realm along with its countless timelines and should be on equal import as Astral God who created The Astral Realm and it was stated that the Bahamut Lyria's possessed is evolving to become just like the Sky-God) | Complex Multiverse level (Comparable to Astral God in terms of his power of Destruction. As the Sky God they are)

Cagliostro​

This profile tiering is very outdated
so we are fixing it alongside this crt and improving reasoning
Tier: At least 5-A, likely 4-A | 2-B

Attack Potency: At least Large Planet level (should be far superior than Astrals who control primal beast like Corow), likely Multi-Solar System level (Was one of the first people that Astrals gave the offer to become a Primal, and upon refusing, Cagliostro made Primals during the war, which likely includes the Primals comparable to Shiva and Europa, alongside with Astrals, a complete joke and chased them down while they are running for their lives. Was the only one who was able to seal Beelzebub, who was able to easily defeat Belial and was a reliable asset to Archangels) | Multiverse level (Fought with Captain and Sandalphon against Beelzebub after reemerging and fought on equal ground against Chaos infused Cells of Beelzebub inside Tower of Babyl that even Sandalphon struggled against)
Tier: At least 5-A, likely 4-A | 1-C

Attack Potency: At least Large Planet level (should be far superior to Astrals who control primal beasts like Corow), likely Multi-Solar System level (Was one of the first people that Astrals gave the offer to become a Primal, and upon refusing, Cagliostro made Primals during the war, which likely includes the Primals comparable to Shiva and Europa, alongside with Astrals, a complete joke and chased them down while they are running for their lives.) | Multiverse Level likely Low Complex Multiverse level possibly Complex Multiverse level (Assisted on the destruction of Pandemonium's layered Barrier which would take Sandalphon with Lucifer's power to destroy but would leave him exhausted. Managed to seal Beelzebub within Pandemonium with his Chaos which she claimed to take a lot of her stamina. Fought alongside Captain and Sandalphon against Beelzebub's Chaos Body and fought on equal ground against Chaos-infused Cells of Beelzebub and far stronger monsters inside the Tower of Babyl that even Sandalphon struggled against)

Wardant​

nothing needs to be changed tbh. he's still low 1-C
The recent discussion makes his initial Tier at 2-B rather than 4-A

Zooey​

She's supposed to scale to wardant. so she should be changed to match his tier in the last key
She's supposed to have another key as well but that needs to be in another crt so for now

The recent discussion makes his initial Tier at 2-B rather than 4-A
Tier: 4-A, likely higher | Low 2-C

Attack Potency: Multi-Solar System level, likely higher (As a nightmare raid boss, she should be stronger than the likes of Shiva (Granblue Fantasy), who is comparable to Europa) | Universe level+ (Used her power to assemble Ultra Robo Grand God Kaiser and was the main source of its strength in addition to others who wanted to protect the world to defeat Abomination Battle Ship Agastia)
Tier: 2-B, likely higher | Low 1-C

Attack Potency: Multiverse level, likely higher (As a nightmare raid boss, she should be stronger if not equal to Akasha with her Golden Form) | Low Complex Multiverse level (Used her power to assemble Ultra Robo Grand God Kaiser and was the main source of its strength in addition to others who wanted to protect the world to defeat Abomination Battle Ship Agastia. Capable of fighting Cosmos who sees and treats the Timeline of Sky-realm as mere ripples in the water inside the dimension she created)

Sandalphon​

since he scales to Etemenanki's destruction he would be 1-C instead of low 1-C
Tier: 4-A | At least 4-A, possibly Low 1-C | Low 1-C, higher with 12 Wings

Attack Potency: Multi-Solar System level (Archangel born from Lucifer's own power and capable of defeating the 4 Primarchs who are far superior than Shiva and Europa) | At least Multi-Solar System level, possibly Low Complex Multiverse level (As Supreme Primarch he destroyed Avatar with Paradise lost and inherited all of Lucifer's Wings and Power) | Low Complex Multiverse level (Capable of defeating Belial infused with Avatar's power who is giving Captain a hard time and overpowered Sandalphon with Supreme Primarch Wings can fight Lucilius before he awakened the Speaker's power), higher with 12 Wings (12 wings gave him a fighting chance against Lucilius with the help of Captain)
Tier: 4-A | 1-C | 1-C, higher with 12 Wings

Attack Potency: Multi-Solar System level (Archangel born from Lucifer's own power and capable of defeating the 4 Primarchs who are far superior than Shiva and Europa) | Complex Multiverse level (As Supreme Primarch he destroyed Avatar with Paradise lost and inherited all of Lucifer's Wings and Power) | Complex Multiverse level (Capable of defeating Belial infused with Avatar's power who is giving Captain a hard time and overpowered Sandalphon with Supreme Primarch Wings can fight Lucilius before he awakened the Speaker's power), higher with 12 Wings (12 wings gave him a fighting chance against Lucilius with the help of Captain)

Avatar​

Simple enough same as Sandalphon
Tier: At least 4-A, possibly Low 1-C

At least Multi-Solar System level (Zechariah[2] a weapon possessing a fraction of his power can swallow the light until it becomes a Starless Void), possibly Low Complex Multiverse level (Was so strong that Lucifer couldn't kill it and was sealed instead and is hinted to be created along with Metatron to Destroy[3] Etemenanki from inside which was also achieved when Lucilius and Sandalphon at their strongest fought inside Etemenanki[4]. Belial was able to keep up with Sandalphon as Supreme Primarch by absorbing a fraction of its power) ignore durability with special attacks
Tier: 1-C

At least Complex Multiverse level (Was so strong that Lucifer couldn't kill it and was sealed instead and is hinted to be created along with Metatron to Destroy[3] Etemenanki from inside which was also achieved when Lucilius and Sandalphon at their strongest fought inside Etemenanki[4]. Belial was able to keep up with Sandalphon as Supreme Primarch by absorbing a fraction of its power) ignore durability with special attacks

Lucilius​

Scales to Beelzebub in 2nd key and Sandalphon on the last key so it will be updated accordingly
Tier: At least 4-A | Low 1-C | Low 1-C, higher with seven trumpets

Attack Potency: Multi-Solar System level (Shouldn't be weaker than primal beasts and archangels who he can control and create as astral) | Low Complex Multiverse level (Caused Etemenanki to fall and cease to function[6] who can resist the encroachment of chaos and can destroy the dimensional boundary which stops the Sky Realm and Crimson Horizon from merging) | Low Complex Multiverse level (With 12 wings he should possess the power and authority of Speaker Sahar over the Sky Realm and Astral Realm and was destroying Etemenanki which is a structure that encompasses both Worldly Providence and Otherworldly Chaos yet is neither while clashing with Sandalphon and Captain), higher with seven trumpets (Stronger than before with Seven Trumpets invoking 12 labors that shift the laws to his favor)
Tier: At least 4-A | 1-C | 1-C, higher with seven trumpets

Attack Potency: Multi-Solar System level (Shouldn't be weaker than primal beasts and archangels who he can control and create as astral) | Complex Multiverse level (Caused Etemenanki to fall and cease to function[6] who can resist the encroachment of chaos and can destroy the dimensional boundary which stops the Sky Realm and Crimson Horizon from merging one-shotted Beelzebub in his 2nd key) | Complex Multiverse level (With 12 wings he should possess the power and authority of Speaker Sahar over the Sky Realm and Astral Realm and was destroying Etemenanki which is a structure that encompasses both Worldly Providence and Otherworldly Chaos yet is neither while clashing with Sandalphon and Captain), higher with seven trumpets (Stronger than before with Seven Trumpets invoking 12 labors that shift the laws to his favor)

Seox and Tweyen​

Since they are heavily affected by the CRT they will gain a new key and since The potential power granted by the Revenant weapon is one of the boundary their Revenant weapon key will be likely 2-B possibly low 1-C and they will gain a new key Boundary for gaining powers from the boundary
while the 2nd key will also be upgraded to Low 1-C for fighting Mugen who had access to the Boundary and used its powers during his rampage albeit they downscale from it for being inferior and can only hold him back
and their tiers and key should be similar thus I'm also fixing Tweyen's Keys and tiering for each key and it will be similar to Seox
At least 5-A, likely 4-C, 2-B with Six-Ruin Fist | 4-A, 2-B with Six-Ruin Fist | Low 1-C

At least Large Planet level (Eternals even while holding back are capable of overwhelming trained fighters like Captain while donning Row IV classes who casually defeat strong primal beasts such as Ifrit and Corow), likely Star level (Fought and overcome awakened Six-Ruin Fist, which is able to cleave the heavens or divide the stars[9]. Comparable to other Eternals like Tweyen and Seofon), Multiverse level with Six-Ruin Fist (They are able to use and extract the full strength of the Revenant weapons that is capable of destroying the skies seven times over[10] which is a Timeline branch that supports countless other branches of timeline[11]) | Multi-Solar System level (Capable of fighting both Seofon and Captain post What Makes the Sky Blue and would be capable of killing him while under the effect of Transcensia drug), Multiverse level with Six-Ruin Fist
At least 5-A, likely 4-C, 2-B possibly Low 1-C with Six-Ruin Fist | Low 1-C | Low 1-C

At least Large Planet level (Eternals even while holding back are capable of overwhelming trained fighters like Captain while donning Row IV classes who casually defeat strong primal beasts such as Ifrit and Corow), likely Star level (Fought and overcome awakened Six-Ruin Fist, which is able to cleave the heavens or divide the stars[9]. Comparable to other Eternals like Tweyen and Seofon), Multiverse level possibly Low Complex Multiverse with Six-Ruin Fist (They are able to use and extract the full strength of the Revenant weapons that is capable of destroying the skies seven times over[10] which is a Timeline branch that supports countless other branches of timeline[11]. Revenant weapons are weapons intended to stimulate boundary imprint allowing the users to gain powers from the Boundary although they refuse to use this power granted by the Revenant weapons) | Low Complex Multiverse level (Fought Mugen who went berserk and used the power of the Boundary) | Low Complex Multiverse level (Assisted on the defeat of Orologia while tapping in the boundary who treats millions of fully simulated timeline of Astral Realm and Sky-realm as information inside his personality and even Captain isn't capable of defeating it alone at peak)

Seofon​

This one is tricky I'm not sure if I should make a new profile for her alternate version who became the God of Sky-realm or just add it as an alternative separate key as they have the same abilities. furthermore, his keys and tiering aren't something similar to the Eternals because he can use the power of the boundary without wielding the Revenant weapons, and wielding it simply amplifies the efficiency of how he wields it

currently, his profile is like this
At least 5-A, likely 4-C | 2-B with Seven-Star Sword Awakened

Attack Potency: At least Large Planet level (Even while holding back they are capable of defeating primal beast and is comparable to Row 4 Captain who in turn is superior to Corow), likely Star level (Fought and overcome awakened Six-Ruin Fist, which is able to cleave the heavens or divide the stars[4]. Comparable to other Eternals like Tweyen and Seox) | Multiverse level with Seven-Star Sword Awakened (He is able to use and extract the full strength of the Revenant weapons that is capable of destroying the skies seven times over[5] which is a Timeline branch that supports countless other branches of timeline[6])

Key: Base | Transcendence
as such I decided to revise it into this with the new key
At least 5-A, likely 4-C possibly Low 1-C | Low 1-C likely 1-C | Low 1-C likely 1-C | 1-C

Attack Potency: At least Large Planet level (Even while holding back they are capable of defeating the primal beast and are comparable to Row 4 Captain who in turn is superior to Corow), likely Star level (Fought and overcome awakened Six-Ruin Fist, which is able to cleave the heavens or divide the stars[4]. Comparable to other Eternals like Tweyen and Seox) possibly Low Complex Multiverse level (He has always been capable of tapping the powers of the boundary but he holds back and hides this power although it is unsure whether the main timeline version should be similar to his alternate version who is capable of doing so even without a revenant weapon) | Low Complex Multiverse level likely Complex Multiverse level (Fought Mugen who went berserk and used the power of the Boundary and claimed that he could end him if he uses his own power similar to it which refers to the power to draw from the Omnipotent who is beyond even the Boundary) | Low Complex Multiverse Level likely Complex Multiverse level (Capable of threatening Lu Woh who is equivalent to Orologia and assisted on the defeat of Orologia while tapping in the boundary who treats millions of fully simulated timeline of Astral Realm and Sky-realm as information inside his personality) | Complex Multiverse level (Alternate Seofon became the God and recreated the entire Sky-realm becoming Equal to Sky-God or Astral God and after absorbing all the Six Dragons and draws powers from whom who sits beyond the Boundary which is "The Omnipotent")

Key: Base | Seeds of Redemption | Six Dragon Arc | Seofon Alter

NOTE: I'm aware the branching timeline might change but I'd rather tackle that in a different CRT because the branching timeline in Granblue needs to be elaborated furthermore and there are multiple versions of destruction that occurred one of which is a domino effect while one is total erasure of branches and some character will scale while others do not. As for the keys for Seox Tweyen and Seofon for the 2-B are likely to change to low 2-C or 2-C because their destruction feat via revenant weapon is likely a domino effect of destroying one timeline thus destroying the countless branches it has in the future.
 
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Kenny Mccormick 0v0 said:
Agree with everything
But why Cagliostro still get "likely" instead of fully low 1C?
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Although he fought beelzebub clones and such during that time Sandalphon only uses lucifer wings instead of the multicolored one.

And their attacks were also ineffective against Beelzebub chaos body which isn't a really good indication but since at that point Sandalphon and Captain already scales to possibly 1-C and 1-C

So likely low 1-C makes more sense here

We know she also struggled just to seal Beelzebub and that launching an attack on the barrier of pandemonium she also needed extra firepower from IO and Rosetta

Tbh Cagliostro true extent is yet unknown but know her story and such it is not farfetch that she is equal to them if not comparable so likely is more reasonable imo.
 
TheGreatJedi13 said:
Although he fought beelzebub clones and such during that time Sandalphon only uses lucifer wings instead of the multicolored one.

And their attacks were also ineffective against Beelzebub chaos body which isn't a really good indication but since at that point Sandalphon and Captain already scales to possibly 1-C and 1-C

So likely low 1-C makes more sense here

We know she also struggled just to seal Beelzebub and that launching an attack on the barrier of pandemonium she also needed extra firepower from IO and Rosetta

Tbh Cagliostro true extent is yet unknown but know her story and such it is not farfetch that she is equal to them if not comparable so likely is more reasonable imo.
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Eh, being weaker than a 1-C but still doing anything at all (aka, downscaling) still nets 1-C, as we're dealing with infinities here, as much withstanding half of a Low 2-C attack is still Low 2-C, or what Ultima said here for instance, also extending similarly to other parts of tier 1:

So, to make things clear: Inflicting damage on a Low 1-C entity, regardless of how minimal, is still Low 1-C.
Click to expand...

Anyways, why is Captain Low 1-C to 1-C in the last key? This doesn't seem to be a case of the power of the character lore-wise varying looking at the proposed AP reasoning.
 
Bobsican said:
Anyways, why is Captain Low 1-C to 1-C in the last key? This doesn't seem to be a case of the power of the character lore-wise varying looking at the proposed AP reasoning.
Click to expand...
The Timeline of the game is weird which has been a struggle so i mostly tier Captain within appropriate feats on certain instances that doesn't follow a proper timeline in the game.

At least 4-A, up to 2-B, possibly 1-C
This one is fair as this scaling is proper due to varying degrees of power figure he fought
although should it be up to or likely?
Low 1-C to 1-C
this one is truly the crux for me when scaling him
Although his fight with Orologia is hard earned and he couldn't have done it alone. Orologia at best is only 6D with the Boundary and he gained a power boost from the boundary to defeat Orologia so honestly this kinda solidifies him being 6D at the base. (it was initially assumed in the entire community that his blue hair form is his strongest form but with this new event it was presumably only confirmed to be at best 6D)

Now regarding his 1-C scaling
He mostly got it from Lucilius and Beelzebub (ignoring the possibly rating from Avatar)
Lucilius, He only blocked his casual attack and attempted to hurt his friend who is relatively weak and he only managed to delay him before Sandalphon got his power boost which originated from Lyria. now it did not hint nor say it also boosted Captain as well but Lucilius mentioned how Vyrn and Lyria also assisted which could hint that he as well was amped by Lyria's Power.
Now for Beelzebub.
His Chaos Body is unharmed by them which they did not even scratch if your argument with Cagliostro is that despite being downscaled it still qualifies for a full 1-C. then I'll gladly adjust it to that.
Although he might be referring to the non-12 wings Lucilius. Lucilius is still capable of destroying Etemenanki so it is still 1-C regardless.
Bobsican said:
Eh, being weaker than a 1-C but still doing anything at all (aka, downscaling) still nets 1-C, as we're dealing with infinities here, as much withstanding half of a Low 2-C attack is still Low 2-C, or what Ultima said here for instance, also extending similarly to other parts of tier 1:
Click to expand...
does it? then I guess she can get a full one rather than 2-B likely tier 1.
 
TheGreatJedi13 said:
The Timeline of the game is weird which has been a struggle so i mostly tier Captain within appropriate feats on certain instances that doesn't follow a proper timeline in the game.
Click to expand...
Let me guess, are some plot points of dubious place on the timeline by being almost unlocked at random like the average gacha? If so, in such cases that kind of stuff is usually just ignored as it's too dubious to do much with, for example, using another verse, some KH characters don't scale to tier 1 by merely cameoing as opponents in some side quests of the gacha game, as naturally where they'd scale at all is up in the air, let alone it raising scaling issues. There's also how the Megami Tensei group has been explicit on Sonic the Hedgehog being a recruitable creature in the gacha game doesn't mean he's tier 1 either.

As usual, if an argument can be made for something having to happen past a certain point in the timeline, then that can be used to argue usability for certain cases, context mattering always and all, but by default it's just ignored in lack of better options.

TheGreatJedi13 said:
At least 4-A, up to 2-B, possibly 1-C
This one is fair as this scaling is proper due to varying degrees of power figure he fought
although should it be up to or likely?
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Depends, "up to" and "Varies" should preferably only be used if there's a proper in-universe reasoning for the power varying (for example, Ditto), "possibly" and "likely" are usually for when there's a potentially minor inconsistency/dubiousness to consider.

Looking at the proposed description of this key, it seems weird to list all of those reasonings over just 1-C when they apparently explicitly upscale from everything but the 1-C stuff, can't really get more direct than that.


TheGreatJedi13 said:
Low 1-C to 1-C
this one is truly the crux for me when scaling him
Although his fight with Orologia is hard earned and he couldn't have done it alone. Orologia at best is only 6D with the Boundary and he gained a power boost from the boundary to defeat Orologia so honestly this kinda solidifies him being 6D at the base. (it was initially assumed in the entire community that his blue hair form is his strongest form but with this new event it was presumably only confirmed to be at best 6D)
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TBH that'd just make it clear as day Captain should be downright tier 1, as far that key (and later on, I presume) goes.

TheGreatJedi13 said:
Now regarding his 1-C scaling
He mostly got it from Lucilius and Beelzebub (ignoring the possibly rating from Avatar)
Lucilius, He only blocked his casual attack and attempted to hurt his friend who is relatively weak and he only managed to delay him before Sandalphon got his power boost which originated from Lyria. now it did not hint nor say it also boosted Captain as well but Lucilius mentioned how Vyrn and Lyria also assisted which could hint that he as well was amped by Lyria's Power.
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Sounds like Captain would downscale from 1-C (aka, still 1-C), then be at least baseline by properly matching with Lyria's power, which'd be listed like "1-C, higher with Lyria's power"

TheGreatJedi13 said:
Now for Beelzebub.
His Chaos Body is unharmed by them which they did not even scratch if your argument with Cagliostro is that despite being downscaled it still qualifies for a full 1-C. then I'll gladly adjust it to that.
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Normally I'd say they shouldn't scale as not even chip damage is something normal to any tier qualitatively inferior (but not necessarily as merely being "invulnerable" by raw stats yet still in the same tier is fairly common, as much we don't push main canon Mario to an higher tier with a Super Star), but him then saying that a given percentage would be sufficient to obliterate them implies they'd just downscale from him at that moment.

TheGreatJedi13 said:
Although he might be referring to the non-12 wings Lucilius. Lucilius is still capable of destroying Etemenanki so it is still 1-C regardless.
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Sounds like just being tier 1 would be quite valid then.

TheGreatJedi13 said:
does it? then I guess she can get a full one rather than 2-B likely tier 1.
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Yep

Anyways, it seems we'd have to pick between Low 1-C and 1-C here beyond all of that, for cases like this usually consistency (outliers being a thing on the site and all), so if the 1-C stuff isn't contradicted it may be reasonable to just downright jump there.
 
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Bobsican said:
Depends, "up to" and "Varies" should preferably only be used if there's a proper in-universe reasoning for the power varying (for example, Ditto), "possibly" and "likely" are usually for when there's a potentially minor inconsistency/dubiousness to consider.

Looking at the proposed description of this key, it seems weird to list all of those reasonings over just 1-C when they apparently explicitly upscale from everything but the 1-C stuff, can't really get more direct than that.
Click to expand...
the 1-C from Avatar is indeed only "possibly" because Even Lucilius himself isn't sure that at that point Avatar could destroy Etemenanki. but he is meant and built to destroy it and Lucilius has a basic idea of what it needs via sharing memories from the Speaker where he was cloned/based which he wasn't aware of and even find the accuracy of his deduction really close to a hypothesis.

4-A key is there at least because the timeline after the event where he became 4-A is unclear except for the fact that the first part of the Trilogy of What Makes the Sky Blue happened before other later events occurred and were even referenced at some point or mentioned.
but we can't really just scale anyone to 1-C just because they fought MC one time as you said so instead we set a low end as 4-A

2-B is because his interactions with the Evoker are not sure whether they happened after Paradise Lost or before (Paradise lost is when he fought Avatar and is the 2nd part of the Trilogy of What Makes the Sky Blue) with some event referencing the encounter with Evoker or Eternals


The rest is for the last key. I'll concede and agree to a full 1-C rating higher with Lyria or summons. since Lyria really amps using summons in the first place. like using Lucifer's feather/ amping mc with Bahamut's power like in this scene in anime but since MC can also just summon without lyria he likely could just do it himself as well as long as Lyria already gained those summons and their powers already
1-C, Higher with Summons
Click to expand...
 
TheGreatJedi13 said:
the 1-C from Avatar is indeed only "possibly" because Even Lucilius himself isn't sure that at that point Avatar could destroy Etemenanki. but he is meant and built to destroy it and Lucilius has a basic idea of what it needs via sharing memories from the Speaker where he was cloned/based which he wasn't aware of and even find the accuracy of his deduction really close to a hypothesis.

4-A key is there at least because the timeline after the event where he became 4-A is unclear except for the fact that the first part of the Trilogy of What Makes the Sky Blue happened before other later events occurred and were even referenced at some point or mentioned.
but we can't really just scale anyone to 1-C just because they fought MC one time as you said so instead we set a low end as 4-A

2-B is because his interactions with the Evoker are not sure whether they happened after Paradise Lost or before (Paradise lost is when he fought Avatar and is the 2nd part of the Trilogy of What Makes the Sky Blue) with some event referencing the encounter with Evoker or Eternals
Click to expand...
Uh... in the second link after that he seems to be saying that the hypothesis turned out to be quite true in the end, so I'm not sure if it'd be up in the air to begin with, unless I missed something.

Sounds more like outliers for the other characters (or rather, not sufficient stuff lore-wise to properly scale, unless it's not contradicted and preferably there's some lore placing/implying the respective characters on a similar ballpark) than it being a ton of anti-feats for Captain, as much we don't make Arceus a far lower tier by constantly struggling with far lower stuff for the sake of the plot.

Considering the hypothesis turned out to be true, it seems 2-B is quite unecessary, assuming that the moment it was stated was chronologically before (and it's indeed reliable after all), of course.
TheGreatJedi13 said:
The rest is for the last key. I'll concede and agree to a full 1-C rating higher with Lyria or summons. since Lyria really amps using summons in the first place. like using Lucifer's feather/ amping mc with Bahamut's power like in this scene in anime but since MC can also just summon without lyria he likely could just do it himself as well as long as Lyria already gained those summons and their powers already
Click to expand...
"higher" for stat listing purposes isn't capitalized, but beyond that, yeah.
 
Hmmm.
Well while true if we make the possibly 1-C key an actual rating or likely rating that would mean i have to actually separate it into another key.
And the 2-B i believe is still important as it is one of his growth before facing Avatar as he actually gained more Arsenal like Primarch weapons, awakening Revenant weapons, gaining allies from Evokers, facing off Inchoate World and being tested by Proto-Bahamut in Zinkenstill while also gaining Bahamut weapons which has lore about straight out wiping universes (a step up from 4-A etc) on the way before facing off Avatar.

This will affect Wardant since instead of starting off at 4-A he will instead be 2-B and Zooey will be as well

4-A is from the entire part 1 of What makes the sky blue
Since Arcarum evoker events happened along the line after part 1 and before Paradise lost.
Then it should be a separate key
Then another key after paradise lost
Then finally his endgame key for the totality of all the stories so far.

Key: Base | Chapter 63+ | What Makes the Sky Blue | Paradise Lost | Endgame

Tier: 6-A | 5-A likely 4-C | At least 4-A up to 2-B | 1-C | 1-C
Or
Tier: 6-A | 5-A likely 4-C | At least 4-A | 2-B likely 1-C | 1-C



Ill make an edit for AP explanation and will likely just make Beelzebub instead of possibly will be 1-C with Avatar's power

Then flat out make Avatar 1-C as well

I'll probably Overhaul some more of those affected by these scalings. Good thing there isn't much
 
TBH "likely" fits more than "up to" here as this is more of a case of timeline dubiousness than the power varying at any moment or similar.

Beyond that, I'd support more the first option for the tier section going by what I've seen on the justifications.
 
Bobsican said:
Usually further plot points are released in chronological order from my experience with gachas, so that could maybe be considered to use as a guide, unless the stuff isn't released that way, of course.
Click to expand...
It does yeah and they start to reference older events in dialogue and much more which helps.
although sometimes it is both a blessing and a curse when it comes to scaling
Character story tends to have more reference to older events and rarely even tie to the main story which further helps tie out a chronological order.
I avoid making a profile for characters with an unverifiable timeline.

We have a rule that Other characters shouldn't scale to Captain alone and should scale more to other characters present during the event
 
bump also i might need to redo
Seox and Tweyen's keys making their second Key straight up low 1-C because they actually fought someone who used the power of the boundary way before 🗿
 
If the boundary stuff would be Low 1-C, and there's no inconsistencies there should be no issue.
 
Bobsican said:
If the boundary stuff would be Low 1-C, and there's no inconsistencies there should be no issue.
Click to expand...
yeah they fought this guy way earlier but it took all 10 of the strongest people in the Sky-realm to hold him back this is also assumed to be after their finished their awakening with the revenant weapons and grew in power so it kinda lines up properly rather than them having 4-A and 2-B key
and the proof that one is using the power of boundary is their blue hair and aura then their next appearance would be with True Dragons which all scales to Orologia so there isn't much there other than scaling within their storyline

I'll update it
 
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