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Graham Transduality 2

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Also what I meant above is that you dont necessarily need feats for transduality, only statements in most cases. Most transdual characters we have is via statements of "Oh he is neither 1 nor 0" or "dichotomies are not applicable", they are not direct feats and I cant think of any character who has it like that, as it is nigh-impossible to display.
 
Just because that got them type 4 doesn't stop them from getting something else outside that.
Like how DMC for example get type 4 and resistance to physics manipulation out of the same scan
 
Should be moved to crt.

Most Admins and knowledgeable members are on crt discussions, not here. Results here, might change radically if moved here. Better to send it to CRT directly. Scans are okay
 
Fixxed said:
Reason=order
Click to expand...
Ehhhh No..... Reason is superior to order, reality itself, as I have said many times before. Whoever manipulates reason can destroy practically everything, order, reality, reason itself. That's why both Venuzdonoa and MEoCD have such impossible, ilogical feats that make you say kek this makes no sense and in reality they make no sense and what is even better both Venuzdonoa and MEoCD are beyond reason itself and don't follow it so we have a good scaling. And now going to the point of Graham's nothingness, this could no longer be affected by the order (it could be considered TD2), but as Venuzdonoa does not follow the reason the latter destroyed it completely, then it was revealed tGraham's true nature (which is described as a pure nothingness without reason), and each time it was destroyed more deeper and impossible to affect it became. Only Venuz, Anos' source can affect it..... And being logical MEoCD being the same as Venuzdonoa should be able to affect it too since it has the power to destroy reason and it has been implied in more than one occasion that it is practically a portable Venuzdonoa (even more powerful) and they share similar feats.
 
Dereck03 said:
Ehhhh No..... Reason is superior to order, reality itself, as I have said many times before. Whoever manipulates reason can destroy practically everything, order, reality, reason itself. That's why both Venuzdonoa and MEoCD have such impossible, ilogical feats that make you say kek this makes no sense and in reality they make no sense and what is even better both Venuzdonoa and MEoCD are beyond reason itself and don't follow it so we have a good scaling. And now going to the point of Graham's nothingness, this could no longer be affected by the order (it could be considered TD2), but as Venuzdonoa does not follow the reason the latter destroyed it completely, then it was revealed tGraham's true nature (which is described as a pure nothingness without reason), and each time it was destroyed more deeper and impossible to affect it became. Only Venuz, Anos' source can affect it..... And being logical MEoCD being the same as Venuzdonoa should be able to affect it too since it has the power to destroy reason and it has been implied in more than one occasion that it is practically a portable Venuzdonoa (even more powerful) and they share similar feats.
Click to expand...
why Reason>order?
 
Since Graham can regenerate from nonexistence even after his concept is destroyed, then how to kill him?
 
Seventy96 said:
Since Graham can regenerate from nonexistence even after his concept is destroyed, then how to kill him?
Click to expand...
u cant kill him but u can prevent him from regenerating. like anos bring graham's source to his own source
 
Marciano15 said:
why Reason>order?
Click to expand...
Order is reality and other things like somethings are set to happen or something which form reality Blah blah blah
Where Reason is literally above that and manipulating reason is like manipulating plot in Mg still no statement for plot manipulation just ignore that for now.
 
https://cdn.**********.com/attachments/870395307312169063/982834658641342524/zLsNnXT.gif
 
I am neutral for now.

This scan does not in any way state or even imply that misfits "transcend" order.

歯車が一つ回る毎に、奴の膂力が増し、拳を受け止めている俺の手を押し返す。

「上限の歯車は回り始める。限界は歯車により引き上げられ、汝と私は、力の次元にて隔てられる」

秩序の上限を超えたような力で、エクエスは俺を圧し潰そうとする。

かつての世界で、秩序を超えた膂力を発揮した不適合者がいたのだろう。

それすら屠り、秩序の歯車に変えてきたということを奴は誇示したいのだ。

だが、この左手は微動だにしなかった。

「どうした？　世界の上限を超えてその程度の力か？」

「汝は、上限の歯車に轢き裂かれる――」

勢いよくエクエスの車輪が回り、＜運命の歯車＞が奴に力を与える。

思いきり飛び退いた奴は、足の歯車と大地をぐっと噛み合わせた。

弾き出されたように、歯車で地表を削りながら奴は猛突進を仕掛けてきた。

「――それは、世界の重さに圧し潰されるが如く」

奴の体の重さがみるみる増す。

その小さな体に世界の重さを乗せて、奴は俺に突っ込んでくる。

「お前の世界は軽い」

全膂力を込めた奴の突撃を、俺は小指一本で止めていた。

「命の重さの伴わぬ、がらんどうの世界だ」

With each turn of the gears, his physical strength increases, and he forces back my hand, which is catching his fist.

"The gears of upper limits begin to turn. The limits are raised by the gears, and thou and I are separated by a dimension of force."

With a force that seems to exceed the upper limits of order, Eques tries to overwhelm and crush me.

In the former world, there were probably misfits who demonstrated physical strength that exceeded order.

He wants to display the fact that he has defeated even that and transformed it into a gear of order.

However, this left hand did not make the slightest movement.

"What's the matter? Is that the degree of a force that exceeds the upper limits of the world?"

"Thou shalt be run over and torn apart by the gears of upper limits--"

The wheels of Eques turn vigorously, and the <Gear of Fate> grants him power.

He jumped back with all his strength, and the gears in his legs firmly interlocked with the ground.

As if he had been shot out, he fiercely rushed forward, scraping off the ground surface with his gears.

"--It's like being overwhelmed and crushed by the weight of the world."

The weight of his body was increasing rapidly.

With the weight of the world on his small body, he plunges at me.

"Your world is light."

I had stopped his assault with all my physical strength, with only my little finger.

"It's a hollow world without the weight of life."

- WN Chapter 477
Click to expand...

Also, I thought it was once stated that the opposite of the order of creation is not the order of destruction, but the chaos of creation..? Maybe that was just another hypothesis by Dilfred tho.
 
imZer0Null said:
Also, I thought it was once stated that the opposite of the order of creation is not the order of destruction, but the chaos of creation..? Maybe that was just another hypothesis by Dilfred tho.
Click to expand...
Dilfred stated the opposite of order is chaos. Opposite order of creation is order of destruction
 
For now I will comment on something I was talking with Null about and a little of what I think of the proposal.
  1. It is clear that the order is duality and I agree that Graham's true nature should get TD 2. I think Null also agrees with that, but since he is a bit serious he always remains neutral in the first instance.
  2. I agree with Null that this scan doesn't in any way state or even imply that misfits "transcend" order but I think misfits could get something more out of it, misfits exists outside the world's framework, order and reason altogether, knowing the context that the order are dualities in the verse and reason is far above order, i think something more than just Acausality 4 should be warranted for misfits, tho I leave it to discussion here.
  3. I agree that Anos' source has Limited TD 2 because of this scan, Null thinks it may just be a hypothesis, it may be of course, but it is one of the few statements we have for reference that is said by Anos and it should be noted that Dilfred is not at all a character who has no idea what he is talking about and even more so Anos who is practically a Supergenius so it is safe to take the word of the statement as correct.
  4. If the 3 point is correctly accepted then Anos, Sasha, MEoCD & Venuz should get an NPI to interact with TD 2, because they are one of the few that are able to affect Anos' source, Lay with Evansmana as well. And if I am not wrong (I may be, correct me if necessary) if you are able to interact with TD 2 you can interact with Aca 5, so even more NPI.
  5. If the 3rd point is rejected and only Graham's true nature is accepted as TD 2, then only Venuz and Anos' source should be getting NPI for TD 2. And here is a necessary point that I will not stop emphasizing until it is discussed. MEoCD should get the same NPI as Venuz, both for TD (if accepted) and NEP, because both use the power of logic/reason destruction to destroy everything, just as Venuz destroyed the reason why nothingness could not be destroyed, MEoCD can destroy reason in the same way that Venuz can and even to a higher level, that is why it is said that Venuz and MEoCD are on par and that MEoCD can be even more destructive since everything seen to date about MEoCD is merely an after-effect spilling out from the MEoCD. It is even said that Anos is afraid to even use a little of MEoCD's power unless he has no choice and he only uses it for seconds so as not to destroy everything.
  6. If everything is rejected, then everything is rejected which I doubt since it is known that order is duality, it cannot be clearer in the scan and that Graham's true nature transcends all order and is unaffected and unbound by it and not only order, but also lacks reason/logic.
 
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