Graham Abilities Addition

[Tatsumi504]

That ain't NEP type 1.

Can you give me the chapter(s) where Anos fights graham and he becomes nothing? Imma proof read the whole thing for better proof, also the chapter after graham is defeated

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Can you give me the chapter(s) where Anos fights graham and he becomes nothing? Imma proof read the whole thing for better proof, also the chapter after graham is defeated

Chapter 371. Also all scans already are in OP. I don't know what to consider layered hax even though we have this much better explanation and feats.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

@EldemadeDityjon

I still don't see the scans requested being added.

Sorry I have been busy. I am gonna add it in few hours. I just got off of my work.

If his absorption absorbs everything including nothingness then energy is a given usually. You just need to post the scans where he absorbs things with his powers in the profile - but if its something more exoteric like let's say soul/mind/laws/concepts or the like then without an actual scan of the feat/statement he will only absorb what he has shown which once again comes to a good explanation backed by scans.

Yeah sure I will add it along with others

Then you need to post the scan of Zeylons having such an ability cause those that don't read the novel won't know, or if he has a profile link it so we can have a source.

There are no survivers in that clan.

In rest, I agree with Everything, I don't see it being more than once, it does say its "deepening" but it doesn't mean it's another layer without a clearer statement/feat.

Graham when got destroyed by Venozdonor already reached a point where logic and reason doesn't affecting him. Still he was getting destroyed even deeper. How does that sound. It's definitely a layered one

Normal source < nothingness < nothingness without reason< Deeper<<< goes on for infinity.

 

[Caduz213]

I can't understand how difficult it is to see infinite layers for Graham's NEp. The quote literally states that the more he is destroyed, the closer he comes to his true nothingness. It is not said that he needs to complete regeneration for his true nature to work. It is logical to think that "closer I get to my true nothingness" means that the more he is destroyed, your previous nothingness gets deeper until it reaches your true nothingness. It makes no sense for him to say that the more he is destroyed, the closer he comes to his true profound form of nothing if he was already in it.

 

[Caduz213]

Now if he were to say "the more I am destroyed, I just return to my true nothingness" it would make sense to claim that this is not infinite layers of NEP and to say that Venuzdonoa is just destroying Graham and leaving him in his true form.

 

[Everything12]

Repeating the same evidence again and again without even adding new context is not going to change someone's opinion. Regardless of adding statements such as a person not reaching a logical conclusion, or not understanding how they are having difficulty seeing something.

Especially when I actually do understand how you are reaching your conclusions, but do not personally think those conclusions are the accurate ones based off the evidence presented.

 

[Fixxed]

You can correlate previous mentioning of abyss and deepening but this instance of it does not have such infinite deepening itself as far as I'm seeing.

But the abyss and the infinite destruction in here is the same context, the eternity nothingness or everything about NEP 2 that give above is corresponding one after one

 

[Fixxed]

In rest, I agree with Everything, I don't see it being more than once, it does say its "deepening" but it doesn't mean it's another layer without a clearer statement/feat.

I think you says it only one layer because you just see the scan one by one. But the scan is connect to each other

 

[Fixxed]

Graham's root is being destroyed by arnos' root over and over again. But graham is nothingness after the destruction, of course graham is destroyed in arnos source, but instead being destroyed i think being deeper is more accurate. Their root is going to abyss, and going to abyss in maou gakuin verse is mean get deeper/get layered. So graham being destroyed is mean it going to abyss/get deeper than before

So graham get destroy is mean get deeper and deeper until the true nothingness

Spoiler: CHP 371

「だけど、滅びた後のなにもない無が、理さえ伴わない虚無こそが、僕の根源の本来の姿だ」
"But the nothingness after the destruction, the emptiness without reason, is the original form of my roots."
.
.
.
　俺の根源と、グラハムの根源を重ね合わせ、その深淵へと送り込んでいく。
Overlay my roots and Graham's roots and send them into the abyss.

In this not only graham's root thats being go to abyss (deepening) but arnos' root is going to abyss too

And the scan after that says its infinite in destruction. So the destruction is deepening until infinite, and graham says his nothingness is nothing after destruction, thats why arnos keep destroy (deepening his root, and deepening graham's root by destruction) him over and over again until its reach the true nothingness, but graham dont "disappear" because he is nothing after destruction, so if he get destroyed he become nothingness and he get destroyed again he become nothingness after the previous nothingness and go on to infinite destruction and nothingness

I think this would help. Graham's root is being destroyed over and over agaian (to infinite detruction) until it reach true nothingness. So the more graham being destroyed the more he become nothingness until the true nothingness it self

Spoiler: CHP 373

「この根源の深奥にて、その虚無さえも消え去り真なる無に至るまで、無限の滅びを味わうだろう」
"In the depths of this source, even its emptiness will disappear and you will experience infinite destruction to the true nothingness."

 

[wwereymy235]

The silver sea is a good example of how deepening works. It’s either gain a layer of hax or gain dimensionality and it’s already been debunked to gain a layer. Grahams been said by the people above to continually be destroyed and how his nothingness works. It gets deeper every time 'deepening' meaning it gains a layer. Every time Anos destroys the reason /logic of grahams nothingness it gets another layer. Since he’s being destroyed infinitely then the cycle continues. The only difference is that grahams nothingness gets harder to effect each and every time.

 

[Antvasima]

Everything12's and Zaratthustra's conclusions above can be applied, but not what they have rejected.

Thank you very much for helping out.

 

[Tatsumi504]

Everything12's and Zaratthustra's conclusions above can be applied, but not what they have rejected.

Thank you very much for helping out.

Alright then but let us try to appeal to them one last time

 

[Antvasima]

Everything12 has already told you that he is very tired of this, so I am afraid that you will likely have to accept his evaluation here.

 

[Everything12]

If your just going to reword what everyone else has already said multiple times above without adding any new evidence or interpretation then you not likely going to change any opinions.

The only alternative I can suggest, but don't particularly advise, is that if you aren't likely to change any opinions you wait for new opinions. But, I personally wouldn't advise for that, unless you are fine with waiting an uncertain amount of time on the chance that more staff members come and have a different opinion.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Everything12's and Zaratthustra's conclusions above can be applied, but not what they have rejected.

Thank you very much for helping out.

I am ok with that for now. If others want to argue they can but just to be safe Only thing now rejected is infinite layers of NEP type 2 only right ?

I also added scans for what Zaratthustra's asked me add to OP.

 

[Regidian]

I am ok with that for now. If others want to argue they can but just to be safe Only thing now rejected is infinite layers of NEP type 2 only right ?

I also added scans for what Zaratthustra's added to OP.

Resistance negation to high godly regen/high godly regen and resistance to resistance negation being infinite layer was not accepted by the two but since after you only talk about the Nep2 part, you can maybe convince them for this one

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Spoiler: Chapter 683

「この程度の弾丸ではイレギュラーになりはせんよ、 元首アノス」

「ふむ。 力を見せればいいのか?」

地面を蹴り、 間合いに踏み込む。

「話が早い」

<深源死殺> の拳を奴の土手っ腹にぶち込む。 ジジの体は僅かに浮い たが、この魔弾世界の秩序では薄皮一枚傷つけることができぬ。

「効かんよ。 我が世界の理がまだ理解できんか」

「なにを言っている?」

拳を開く。 終末の火が煌々と燃えていた。

ベブズド エギルグローネ・アングドロア <深源死殺> と同時に発動した<極獄界滅灰燼魔砲> を握り込み、隠 していたのだ。

魔弾を放とうとしていたジジは、 咄嗟に反魔法に切り替える。

直後、 終末の火が奴の体を飲み込んだ。

「俺が未だこの世界に適応できぬと思っているなら、 深淵総軍の分析と やらも大したことはない」

俺の背後に、魔法陣の砲塔がずらりと並ぶ。

その数は十と四。
すべての砲塔から黒き粒子が立ち上り、 七重の螺旋 を描く。

"A bullet of this magnitude will not make you an irregularity, Headman Anos."

"Hmm. Show of force?"

Kicking the ground, he steps into the gap.

"Fast talker."

　I put <Deep Source Death Killer>fist into his stomach. Gigi's body floated slightly, but in the order of this magic bullet world, not even a thin layer of skin could be harmed.

"It won't work. You still don't understand the logic of my world, do you?"

"What are you talking about?"

He opens his fist. The fire of the apocalypse was burning brightly.

Bevsd Egilgurone Angudoroa, who had activated it at the same time as the <Death Killer of the Deep Source>, was clutching and concealing the <Glossed Ash Ember Cannon of the Extreme Hell World>.

Gigi, who was about to release a magic bullet, quickly switched to anti-magic.

Immediately after, the fire of the apocalypse engulfed his body.

"If you still think I can't adapt to this world, then the analysis of the Abyssal General's army and all that doesn't help much."

Behind me, a row of magic turrets line up.

The number is ten and four.
Black particles rise from all the turrets and form a sevenfold spiral.

Anos has Adaptation he needed to adapt to Graham nothingness infinite times to completely destroy it shows it has infinite layers of resistance.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

In rest, I agree with Everything, I don't see it being more than once, it does say its "deepening" but it doesn't mean it's another layer without a clearer statement/feat.

Spoiler: Chapter 683

「この程度の弾丸ではイレギュラーになりはせんよ、 元首アノス」

「ふむ。 力を見せればいいのか?」

地面を蹴り、 間合いに踏み込む。

「話が早い」

<深源死殺> の拳を奴の土手っ腹にぶち込む。 ジジの体は僅かに浮い たが、この魔弾世界の秩序では薄皮一枚傷つけることができぬ。

「効かんよ。 我が世界の理がまだ理解できんか」

「なにを言っている?」

拳を開く。 終末の火が煌々と燃えていた。

ベブズド エギルグローネ・アングドロア <深源死殺> と同時に発動した<極獄界滅灰燼魔砲> を握り込み、隠 していたのだ。

魔弾を放とうとしていたジジは、 咄嗟に反魔法に切り替える。

直後、 終末の火が奴の体を飲み込んだ。

「俺が未だこの世界に適応できぬと思っているなら、 深淵総軍の分析と やらも大したことはない」

俺の背後に、魔法陣の砲塔がずらりと並ぶ。

その数は十と四。
すべての砲塔から黒き粒子が立ち上り、 七重の螺旋 を描く。

"A bullet of this magnitude will not make you an irregularity, Headman Anos."

"Hmm. Show of force?"

Kicking the ground, he steps into the gap.

"Fast talker."

　I put <Deep Source Death Killer>fist into his stomach. Gigi's body floated slightly, but in the order of this magic bullet world, not even a thin layer of skin could be harmed.

"It won't work. You still don't understand the logic of my world, do you?"

"What are you talking about?"

He opens his fist. The fire of the apocalypse was burning brightly.

Bevsd Egilgurone Angudoroa, who had activated it at the same time as the <Death Killer of the Deep Source>, was clutching and concealing the <Glossed Ash Ember Cannon of the Extreme Hell World>.

Gigi, who was about to release a magic bullet, quickly switched to anti-magic.

Immediately after, the fire of the apocalypse engulfed his body.

"If you still think I can't adapt to this world, then the analysis of the Abyssal General's army and all that doesn't help much."

Behind me, a row of magic turrets line up.

The number is ten and four.
Black particles rise from all the turrets and form a sevenfold spiral.

Anos has Adaptation he needed to adapt to Graham nothingness infinite times to completely destroy it shows it has infinite layers of resistance.

To explain it correctly There's layers of Conceptual Hierarchy in silver Sea he can adapt to any deeper layers where it's impossible to adapt to layer 1 inhabitants to layer 2.

Spoiler: Chapter 478

「いいや。ありえはしない。浅層世界の者が、ましてや第一層世界の住人が一踏みで銀水船ぎんすいせんネフェウスを砕くなど、そんな秩序はこの銀水聖海ぎんすいせいかいのどこを見渡しても存在しないっ！」

"No. It is impossible. There is no such order anywhere in the Silver Water Sacred Sea that a person from a shallow world, much less an inhabitant of the first layer world, can smash a silver water ship, the Nefarious, with a single step!"

Spoiler: Chapter 521

ミリティア世界の外側には、無数の小世界が存在し、数多の魔法律が存在する。
　それらは複雑に他の世界に影響を及ぼす。
　他の世界の魔法律を知らぬ以上、この滅びの魔法の深淵は覗けぬ。

Outside of the Militia world, there are countless small worlds and numerous magical laws.
　They affect other worlds in complex ways.
　As long as we do not know the magical laws of other worlds, we cannot look into the abyss of this magic of destruction.

　つまり、魔法が深くなればなるほどその深淵が覗きにくくなる。

　In other words, the deeper the magic, the harder it is to peer into that abyss.

「ミリティア世界では、他の世界の魔法律などいくら魔眼めを凝らしてもわからぬ。闇雲に術式を構築していき、たまたまそれが遡航術式を組み込んだ深層魔法だったなど、あまりに偶然がすぎる」

　数字も読めぬのに、数式を解けと言っているようなものだ。

　偶然答えが合致する確率が限りなくゼロに近いことは、考えるまでもあるまい。

"In the world of Militia, you can't see the magic laws of other worlds no matter how hard you look with your magic eye. It is too much of a coincidence that we build up a formula in the dark and it happens to be a deep magic that incorporates a retroactive technique."

　It is like asking someone to solve a mathematical equation when they cannot even read numbers.

　It is needless to say that the probability of the answer matching by chance is close to zero.

I hope this clears up deeper means layers of resistance and hax negation in MGF. Graham nothingness getting destroyed & sending him to abyss means it's really impossible to affect his new form.

 

[Everything12]

Those two quotes alone, don't really mean much about hierarchies and layers. The first one is too vague on it's own to be accepted as much by the wiki, while the second one just says that other Worlds have different Laws and so it's pretty much impossible to understand the magic of those Worlds because they don't have a frame of reference to work with. No conceptual hierarchies in those particular quotes and not particularly relevant to the nothingness' layers.

Meanwhile, the adaption quote isn't particularly relevant to proving the nothingness' layers.

But either way, the layers of the Silver Sea don't particularly matter here, I have known about those layers and how they work since before this thread and have been making my judgements with said knowledge in mind.

 

[Tatsumi504]

What is destroyed returns to nothing, that is the order of the world. In the presence of the sword of reason and destruction, all reason is meaningless, and all things perish. Its effect will work until the object is destroyed, I suppose."



　Only a voice echoes from the surrounding emptiness.



But the emptiness of nothingness after the end, the emptiness without reason, is the true form of my root.



　The Rishonen Sword has indeed destroyed his emptiness.

　In other words, it returned him to nothing.



　But does that mean that as long as he escapes the blade, that nothingness will form him again?



If I continue to exercise the power of the Rishonen sword, it will continue to destroy me, though. But that sword can't keep its shape permanently, can it?　Especially if this is not your Demon King's castle.



　Indeed.

　Venuzdnoa has a time limit.



　He cannot continue to destroy the truth of his emptiness forever with the Sword of Destruction.

　No matter what magic we use, order will eventually return to its original form.

Graham's true form is the very nothingness that exists after destruction/ the end, a nothingness without any logic/reason. The more he's destroyed, the closer he's brought to his true form.

If I may ask why do you assume that each further stage of his nothingness after he's destroyed that's closer to true nothingness is the same as the previous one?

 

[Tatsumi504]

while the second one just says that other Worlds have different Laws and so it's pretty much impossible to understand the magic of those Worlds because they don't have a frame of reference to work with

That's not only what its saying. There are countless other worlds but those worlds all operate under a specific kind of order. So far the militia world is the only one capable of utilizing various orders.

In the silver sea order flows from shallow to deep. Order is the various laws, concepts that govern the world so the deeper the world, the more laws and concepts from shallow worlds are Intertwined in a deeper world.
This is why shallow world magic can be used in deeper worlds but deeper world magic normally can't be used in shallow worlds as those worlds lack the laws and concepts needed for it.

The point here is that venuzdonor is a confirmed to be a deep magic despite Anos having no knowledge on deeper world. As a result venuzdonor has been shown yo still work regardless of which layer its in without any need to deepen it.
Saying that there's only 1 layer to Graham's NEP while the rest is just him being destroyed over and over again is giving venuzdonor anti feats which it doesn't actually have.

 

[Caduz213]

That's not only what its saying. There are countless other worlds but those worlds all operate under a specific kind of order. So far the militia world is the only one capable of utilizing various orders.

In the silver sea order flows from shallow to deep. Order is the various laws, concepts that govern the world so the deeper the world, the more laws and concepts from shallow worlds are Intertwined in a deeper world.
This is why shallow world magic can be used in deeper worlds but deeper world magic normally can't be used in shallow worlds as those worlds lack the laws and concepts needed for it.

The point here is that venuzdonor is a confirmed to be a deep magic despite Anos having no knowledge on deeper world. As a result venuzdonor has been shown yo still work regardless of which layer its in without any need to deepen it.
Saying that there's only 1 layer to Graham's NEP while the rest is just him being destroyed over and over again is giving venuzdonor anti feats which it doesn't actually have.

Exactly. The only reason Venzuzdonoa can't destroy Graham permanently is the fact that his nothingness gets deeper (gains more NEP layer) as it's destroyed. Venuzdonoa has no problem interacting even with increasing layers of NEP as it only destroys the reason of its deepest nothingness.

 

[Caduz213]

But the point here is that apparently Graham's true nothingness doesn't have a depth limit. Venuzdonoa has a time limit, but I believe it's because of the demon king's fake castle that was created. The only one who can stop Graham would be Anos himself with his origin who can interact with Graham's nothingness eternally, but without a time limit like Venuzdonoa.

 

[XarxesBreak]

if infinite layers are not accepted, and if we say about the silver sea, what about (99+ Above the baseline ) layer of nothingness, because Graham's nothingness is an nothingness without reason/logic even in deep layer of silver sea, Anos already has (99+ Uncountable) layers of resistance to conceptual manipulation, so we can do the same for NEP 2

 

[wwereymy235]

if infinite layers are not accepted, and if we say about the silver sea, what about (99+ Above the baseline ) layer of nothingness, because Graham's nothingness is an nothingness without reason/logic even in deep layer of silver sea, Anos already has (99+ Uncountable) layers of resistance to conceptual manipulation, so we can do the same for NEP 2

1-B Anos it is

 

[Tatsumi504]

Please don't derail, we have enough problems as it is

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Those two quotes alone, don't really mean much about hierarchies and layers. The first one is too vague on it's own to be accepted as much by the wiki, while the second one just says that other Worlds have different Laws and so it's pretty much impossible to understand the magic of those Worlds because they don't have a frame of reference to work with. No conceptual hierarchies in those particular quotes and not particularly relevant to the nothingness' layers.

Meanwhile, the adaption quote isn't particularly relevant to proving the nothingness' layers.

But either way, the layers of the Silver Sea don't particularly matter here, I have known about those layers and how they work since before this thread and have been making my judgements with said knowledge in mind.

First of all other world refering to deeper worlds read the scans again.

So tell me if a character can't even scratch a character B he needs to adapt to character B concepts and do that thing doesn't that make it's layers of Conceptual manipulation?

Graham's nothingness is complete nothingness which is lacks even reason where Layers has reason by layers of hax resistance and potency.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that you should all just accept Everything12's evaluations/judgements here. If you continue to be unreasonable and argue incessantly, all that will happen is that more staff members will turn uninterested in helping you out with revision threads for this verse in the future.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

I think that you should all just accept Everything12's evaluations/judgements here. If you continue to be unreasonable and argue incessantly, all that will happen is that more staff members will turn uninterested in helping you out with revision threads for this verse in the future.

Got it. Anyway can you keep this open for a while I will try to make a sandbox for accepted abilities and drop it here later it can be applied.

Also NEP and HGR I will addressing it in new thread with other evidences. Thanks for helping out.

 

[Antvasima]

If our staff members here have rejected some additions, you are not allowed to immediately start new revision threads afterwards to try to push them through again.

 

[Tatsumi504]

If our staff members here have rejected some additions, you are not allowed to immediately start new revision threads afterwards to try to push them through again.

Alright but how long do we have to wait before trying the addition again

 

[Antvasima]

You can't just try over and over again to get the same suggestions rejected by our staff accepted by other staff. That is not allowed, and will likely result in new discussion rules being implemented to forbid the topics entirely in order to save time and energy for our staff members.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

If our staff members here have rejected some additions, you are not allowed to immediately start new revision threads afterwards to try to push them through again.

Fine I have plans for other characters upgrade NEP and HGR for Graham can wait then.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, they should preferably wait indefinitely.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Well, they should preferably wait indefinitely.

Can I have the Graham profile unlocked?

I will apply the changes

EldemadeDityjon/sandbox

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

The P&A is a bit messed up. You should add the scans. Also add the eyes and the scythe stuff into tabbers

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

The P&A is a bit messed up. You should add the scans. Also add the eyes and the scythe stuff into tabbers

Ok thanks

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

The P&A is a bit messed up. You should add the scans. Also add the eyes and the scythe stuff into tabbers

There seems to be some problem with Sandbox Can't edit souce code. I will correct it in the Profile.

 

[Antvasima]

I will unlock Graham's page. Preferably wait with editing it until after all of the errors in your draft that you and your collaborators here discover have been corrected.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

I will unlock Graham's page. Preferably wait with editing it until after all of the errors in your draft that you and your collaborators here discover have been corrected.

I corrected errors in the sandbox.