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(GRACE) Obi-Wan VS Kakashi
- Thread starter Psychomaster35
- Start date
XSOULOFCINDERX
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Thousand years of Pain FRA.
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obiwan
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For what reason tho123d5678 said:
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the force
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What part of the force helps him here tho123d5678 said:
Mindhax gets resisted
TK gets countered by kamui snipe
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he can throw him around without him touching obi wan
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but i still vote
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He doesn't need to touch Obi-Wan and TK won't kill thanks to the AP gap123d5678 said:
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Can cut everything
Using true strength is meaningless
Is OMNIPOTENT
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I see no reason as to why Kakashi wouldn't just get cut by Obi-Wan. Mindhax and TK were said a lot but what are the chances of Obi-Wan even using those? Mindhax isn't used for combat in canon, TK isn't how Jedi start a battle and instantly feeling Kakashi's power doesn't help there either.
Lightsabers ignore dura to a minor scale, which is all Obi-Wan needs with someone only 5 times stronger and with no resistance to heat.
Lightsabers ignore dura to a minor scale, which is all Obi-Wan needs with someone only 5 times stronger and with no resistance to heat.
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um why are those there
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Can you show an example of a Lightsaber killing somebody 5x stronger than the user? Also, given Kakashi's huge AP advantage, anything he does is essentially a one shot. Lastly, given their starting distance, it's extremely probable that Kakashi can get a Kamui snipe in before Obi-Wan can get close enough to try anything with his Lightsaber.Eficiente said:
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Sure, it would slice through him like butter, but that's not a problem for Kakashi and I'll tell you why.Eficiente said:
1) He starts most of his battles with Clones in order to scout his opponent and learn about his abilities. Someone of Kakashi's intelligence will definitely figure out his fighting style and would be perfectly capable of copying it with the Sharingan, not his abilities though just his fighting techniques. He can also paralyze him on contact with Lightning clones. He also has many tricks like hiding underground for surprise attacks and such, but all this was already mentioned above by myself and other people.
2) Kamui will allow him to just BFR his lightsaber. It will allow him to BFR any part of his body really, or even his entire body if he so chooses.
3) He can mind hax him by looking at him, so that's another option, but it won't come to that tbh. Though it is in character for him to use illusions in battle.
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Anakin cutting Windu, although you can argue Windu let his guard down.Purgy said:
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With have GG, who could no-sell physical attacks from Obi-Wan but gets cut quite easily, and is made of metals with high melting temperatures. Then the pseudo-outliers of characters aiming to cut other characters we have with a higher tier, accomplishing to do so in cases such as Anakin to Mace's hand. Being x5 times stronger isn't all that huge and there is no essential one-shot for Kakash here, if someone were to hit a normal person 5 times consecutively that wouldn't do the job, for a warrior it takes more. I predict the last thing to not be something Kakashi would do, hence the tactic was due to the distance and not him having done it before. It's not like Obi-Wan would go in a straight line walking or running anyway.Purgy said:
1) He starts most of his battles with Clones in order to scout his opponent and learn about his abilities. Someone of Kakashi's intelligence will definitely figure out his fighting style and would be perfectly capable of copying it with the Sharingan, not his abilities though just his fighting techniques. He can also paralyze him on contact with Lightning clones. He also has many tricks like hiding underground for surprise attacks and such, but all this was already mentioned above by myself and other people.
2) Kamui will allow him to just BFR his lightsaber. It will allow him to BFR any part of his body really, or even his entire body if he so chooses.
3) He can mind hax him by looking at him, so that's another option, but it won't come to that tbh. Though it is in character for him to use illusions in battle.
1) Which brings me to my first ignored question, what even is the evidence for clones to not be detected as fake by Obi-Wan? Obi-Wan defeated GG many times, who masters all forms of lightsaber combat, including Obi-Wan's, and adapts to his opponents' style to defeat them. "Surprise attacks and such" are a literal disadvantage vs Jedi, they know were you are most if not all the time and feel an attack coming before it happens.
2) Sure, hence I'm talking about how would Obi-Wan win should Kakashi not do so with it.
3) Mindhax may or may not be resisted, who knows the scale of the resistance he has. Illusions are a form of mindhax, so that too+how Force senses would still exist to tell Obi-Wan what he needs to.
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1)It doesn't matter if he detects that they're fakes. They're still comparable to Kakashi AP wise and have all his abilities so he'll still have to deal with them before getting to Kakashi, by which point Kakashi will have learned all he needed to know as he inherits his Clones' knowledge, and would proceed to Kamui or Mind hax.
2) Ok.
3) MS Mind hax works on people with resistance as I've pointed out before. For example, Itachi's MS Genjutsu worked on Kakashi who has resistance. Obito, who has the second pair of Kakashi's eye, has controlled a Perfect Jinshuriki for years, and perfect Jins have such a high degree of genjutsu resistance that it was said to be near impossible to trap them in one. But again mind hax is just an option, but Kamui is likely what it'll come down to.
Also I'd like to point out that the Sharingan enhances his reflexes, allows him to predict his opponents next move, and has a form of Info Analysis where it'll tell him how strong his opponent is. It also allows him to keep track of targets even if they're moving extremely fast, are invisible, or behind camouflage. So he's no slouch in H2H either.
2) Ok.
3) MS Mind hax works on people with resistance as I've pointed out before. For example, Itachi's MS Genjutsu worked on Kakashi who has resistance. Obito, who has the second pair of Kakashi's eye, has controlled a Perfect Jinshuriki for years, and perfect Jins have such a high degree of genjutsu resistance that it was said to be near impossible to trap them in one. But again mind hax is just an option, but Kamui is likely what it'll come down to.
Also I'd like to point out that the Sharingan enhances his reflexes, allows him to predict his opponents next move, and has a form of Info Analysis where it'll tell him how strong his opponent is. It also allows him to keep track of targets even if they're moving extremely fast, are invisible, or behind camouflage. So he's no slouch in H2H either.
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With have GG, who could no-sell physical attacks from Obi-Wan but gets cut quite easily, and is made of metals with high melting temperatures.
I looked at the Lightsaber page and even a dozen Star Wars character pages and nowhere is durability negation mentioned, from the wording on the Lightsaber page it seems like they're just extremely potent and just so happen to be potent enough to hurt even the most durable Star Wars characters. Regardless, after having looked at the page, I do agree that a Lightsaber hit probably would cleanly cut through Kakashi but I don't think it's truly considered durability negation as oppose to just having potent AP.
Then the pseudo-outliers of characters aiming to cut other characters we have with a higher tier, accomplishing to do so in cases such as Anakin to Mace's hand
As Spino said, you could very well argue Mace's guard was lowered. Regardless, I agree now that it probably would cut right through Kakashi if he was hit.
Being x5 times stronger isn't all that huge and there is no essential one-shot for Kakash here, if someone were to hit a normal person 5 times consecutively that wouldn't do the job, for a warrior it takes more.
I'm not really sure what you're trying to say here, but after looking at the one shot page, it seems a 5x difference isn't enough to one shot, it will however cause significant damage to Obi-Wan and if either of them land a direct hit it would probably end the fight.
I predict the last thing to not be something Kakashi would do, hence the tactic was due to the distance and not him having done it before. It's not like Obi-Wan would go in a straight line walking or running anyway.
It doesn't really matter how he approaches or backs away from Kakashi, speed is equal and the Sharingan gives a form of precog + great perception, with speed equal it's literally impossible to argue Kakashi wouldn't be able to keep track of him and snipe him with Kamui.
I looked at the Lightsaber page and even a dozen Star Wars character pages and nowhere is durability negation mentioned, from the wording on the Lightsaber page it seems like they're just extremely potent and just so happen to be potent enough to hurt even the most durable Star Wars characters. Regardless, after having looked at the page, I do agree that a Lightsaber hit probably would cleanly cut through Kakashi but I don't think it's truly considered durability negation as oppose to just having potent AP.
Then the pseudo-outliers of characters aiming to cut other characters we have with a higher tier, accomplishing to do so in cases such as Anakin to Mace's hand
As Spino said, you could very well argue Mace's guard was lowered. Regardless, I agree now that it probably would cut right through Kakashi if he was hit.
Being x5 times stronger isn't all that huge and there is no essential one-shot for Kakash here, if someone were to hit a normal person 5 times consecutively that wouldn't do the job, for a warrior it takes more.
I'm not really sure what you're trying to say here, but after looking at the one shot page, it seems a 5x difference isn't enough to one shot, it will however cause significant damage to Obi-Wan and if either of them land a direct hit it would probably end the fight.
I predict the last thing to not be something Kakashi would do, hence the tactic was due to the distance and not him having done it before. It's not like Obi-Wan would go in a straight line walking or running anyway.
It doesn't really matter how he approaches or backs away from Kakashi, speed is equal and the Sharingan gives a form of precog + great perception, with speed equal it's literally impossible to argue Kakashi wouldn't be able to keep track of him and snipe him with Kamui.
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@UchihaSlayer
1) If it needs to be said then, no, Obi-Wan wouldn't "have to deal with them before getting to Kakashi", he would try his best to closer to him and fight fewer clones on that, if any. Particularly 2 things that would help him would be his TK to throw Kakashi where he is and his Force-improved mobility with which he can move faster than normal with acrobatics at the cost of not being able to defead himself while doing so. Also if a light hit disappears each clone then he can also hit them all at once like that with TK.
The Sharingan reflexes don't give Kakashi anything the Force doesn't give Obi-Wan in this battle. A comparison of their real martial skills is something I would be interested to compare, and that I would think Obi-Wan to hold the edge on at first.
1) If it needs to be said then, no, Obi-Wan wouldn't "have to deal with them before getting to Kakashi", he would try his best to closer to him and fight fewer clones on that, if any. Particularly 2 things that would help him would be his TK to throw Kakashi where he is and his Force-improved mobility with which he can move faster than normal with acrobatics at the cost of not being able to defead himself while doing so. Also if a light hit disappears each clone then he can also hit them all at once like that with TK.
The Sharingan reflexes don't give Kakashi anything the Force doesn't give Obi-Wan in this battle. A comparison of their real martial skills is something I would be interested to compare, and that I would think Obi-Wan to hold the edge on at first.
XSOULOFCINDERX
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Didn't Sasuke use his Sharingan to copy Rock Lee's Fighting Style? What's stopping Kakashi from doing the same thing to Obi-Wan so he can then poke holes through it?
XSOULOFCINDERX
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I know that, but it's still a thing he can do.
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@Eficiente
Kakashi can significantly enhance his physical speed with Shunshin as well, so that evens out.
I would argue that he would have trouble with the clones, because again they're identical to Kakashi in every except that they're slightly weaker, but since Kakashi is at least 5x stronger then he'll be dealing with stronger opponents here. Engaging the clones is a bad idea since they'll just do this.
As for skill it'd take too long to list every skill feat Kakashi has and I'm honestly too tired irl to do that, but I can tell you that he's at least top 5 in terms of skill and intelligence in the entire verse. He's been training his whole life, copied a thousand techniques, fought in wars, and is considered by and large a living legend for his skill. If you watch his fight against Pain or Kakuzu you'll get a good sense of his skill if that interests you.
Kakashi can significantly enhance his physical speed with Shunshin as well, so that evens out.
I would argue that he would have trouble with the clones, because again they're identical to Kakashi in every except that they're slightly weaker, but since Kakashi is at least 5x stronger then he'll be dealing with stronger opponents here. Engaging the clones is a bad idea since they'll just do this.
As for skill it'd take too long to list every skill feat Kakashi has and I'm honestly too tired irl to do that, but I can tell you that he's at least top 5 in terms of skill and intelligence in the entire verse. He's been training his whole life, copied a thousand techniques, fought in wars, and is considered by and large a living legend for his skill. If you watch his fight against Pain or Kakuzu you'll get a good sense of his skill if that interests you.
XSOULOFCINDERX
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You know, like when he almost took out the Deva Path? Albeit with a little bit of help from Choji and Chouza.
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I'm sorry but WHOT??Eficiente said:
A 5x advantage is pretty big. A 2x advantage is not that bad but a 5x is kind of overwhelming. A character who is 5x stronger and more durable is doing a lot of damage with every hit. It's expotential.
EDIT: I've got a better example than what I previously posted. Let's say we allowed Kakashi and Kenobi 10 free full force punches on each other.
Kakashi hitting Kenobi 10 times = Kenobi punching himself 50 times.
Kenobi hitting Kakashi 10 times = Kakashi punching himeself 2 times.
The gap is actually bigger than this.
If Kenobi didn't have a lightsaber, this would be a forgone conclusion just based on the numbers alone. Hell, even with that, Kakashi holds most of the advantages.
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and he's WAY more than 5x.
And kenobi's lightsaber can easily be disposed of with water release.
And kenobi's lightsaber can easily be disposed of with water release.
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A 10 meter starting distance and Kakashi using literally anything rangedEficiente said:
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Or a shadow clone Or Kamui Snipe Or countering with the lightning cutter and one-shot-worthy AP
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I mean, maybe. But that doesn't save Kakashi from amping, predicting, etc.
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- Thread starter
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Indeed.
Though, this wouldnt be an actual representation of what would happen in the Death Battle, soon. They'd probably use Legends.
Though, this wouldnt be an actual representation of what would happen in the Death Battle, soon. They'd probably use Legends.
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I think Legends Kenobi is more skilled than Kakashi though.
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Even if he's more skilled, which is arguable, he can always copy some of his techniques. At least martial arts skills because I don't think he can copy Force related powers.
