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(Grace) Biscuit Boi Wants a Third Chance (Ace vs Cracker).

Dziga

Dziga

2,667
1,217
Acedesu
Cracker 10th son of the charlotte family by bodskih-dcfzd2f
Welp, Cracker took the L two times already, and now wants to show his Mama and siblings that he can redeem himself by taking down the #2 of Whithe Beard's pirate division. Fighters start 50 Meters apart, location is in an isolated Island.

Ace: 8 (Calaca, Rin The Dragon Empress, Rei Rubro, ZackMoon1234, SirLancelotDuLacl, Cin, Phoenix821, Js250476) Cracker: 1 (Dr.Fix) Inconclusive: (-)
 
This is pretty good.

Cracker seems an overall better fighter and his Haki is no joke. Plus, Ace is fruit-dependant and barely can do a thing besides spamming fire in many versatile ways.

But in the stamina department Ace wins hands down with no doubt. Cracker can't take a punch while Ace's one of the reasons why the stamina levels in the series are just crazy.

So I think he's taking another L against the fire-boy with all things considered. Cracker is really good and could kill Ace, but he lacks the range, versatility and stamina to keep up with Hiken.
 
I'm not too sure if Cracker is a more skilled hand to hand combatant, Ace spent his entire childhood fighting against Pirates and such only with a pipe. Ace has also been shown to fight against people with enhanced senses and basic levels of precog despite lacking Kenbunshoku Haki himself. He also destroys Cracker completely in stamina as Calaca pointed out. It's also note worthy that Ace has fought Blackbeard who's Devil Fruit can Negate Devil Fruits in general whereas Busushoko Haki can only negate certain Aspects of Devil Fruit Abilities. He's already dealt with not being able to abuse his intang from his experience with Blackbeard and Ace still managed to fight him on even ground, and from what I remember Ace also spammed his ranged attacks against Blackbeard for the majority of the fight. With that being said I'll have to vote for Ace for the reasons I gave along with Calaca's reasons.
 
Ace gets his rating from Cracker on the basis of equalization rather than strong feats so Cracker definitely has the AP/Dur advantage here. His bounty also speaks volumes and don't tell me it doesn't constitute their threat level unless you can support it with Ace being kept low for some reason.

Ace also relied heavily on his Logia powers which are compromised against a strong haki user like Cracker. Even Kity cat consideredyoung Logia's weak.

The best argument for Ace is his stamina and his kiting advantage. If he can keep his distance and seriously harm Cracker with range attacks then he may get the win.

Cracker's defense is no joke however. Luffy needed Gear 4 to get past a single soldier and Ace has never displayed considerable power to that. Cracker's stamina is underplayed here because he doesn't like pain. There's a difference between not liking it and being able to tank attacks. He survived Gear 4 Boundman IIRC which blew him through several Soldiers putting him even further ahead of Ace. Again this is if Ace can even touch Cracker. On the other hand, Cracker can spawn "infinite" soldiers while chilling out so it will be Ace's stamina that goes down first long before Cracker does just sitting and eating jam. Cracker's range will also get better as his army fields out across whatever island they're on rendering Ace's kiting stradegy, if he should use it, ineffective.

A short battle favours Cracker with his stat advantage and a long battle also favours him for a growing and expanding army against a tiring Ace.

Cracker wins.
 
Ace's scaling to Teach and the others Shirohige's Commanders, not Cracker.

You said it, not me. The bounties don't represent strength but threat level. Ace was considered a threat despite being new in the seas, and the WG was hiding his status as Roger's son so it's only normal to have a bounty based on his feats rather than his bloodline.

The Logia powers ain't compromised against Haki. Rin already explained that. Busoshoku doesn't negate the powers but the intangibility only, and Ace dealt with something more dangerous than regular Haki. Plus, even Teach was sure that Ace didn't felt pain in a couple of years, while being a pirate in the New World where everyone and their mothers have Haki. So he's not getting beaten that easily.

Plus, Pekoms considered weak a Logia, yes. But you're ignoring who was that guy. Caribou, the guy who Franky imprisoned in a barrell like it was nobody's business. It's hardly an argument.

I'm pretty sure we have no exact values to rate the difference between Ace's and Luffy's powers. The first Kong Gun destroyed the Biscuit Soldier to pieces and the only reason why Cracker wasn't defeated was because his ability is broken when it comes to spawning.

He survived but he didn't fight back. You can't scale a character to something that make him pass out that easily.

If there's a stat difference at all (which is totally unknown at the moment), Ace'd be stronger than Cracker due to having better feats against stronger people. Let's not forget that his 5-day long battle was against Jinbe, a Master Fishman who can bypass durability, has a monstruous stamina and pain tolerance, and has the ability to directly harm DF users.
 
It's also worth noting that Ace did manage to stand back up after Akainu had burnt him the first time and was gonna fight him until Luffy got in the way, and in the Light Novel Ace managed to burn Whitebeard to an extent. So yeah I'd say that Ace has the AP advantage here, not to mention that it's certainly possible for Ace to develop his Busushoko Haki even further, after all he was able to use it in his battle against another Marine who used Haki and near the end Ace was using Busushoko and knew what he was doing. Cracker obviously beats Ace in Busushoko however this could lead to Ace developing his mid battle as we know Haki gets stronger against stronger opponents. And as Calaca pointed out Ace has likely dealt with Busushoko Haki in the past given that he was causing havoc in the New World where Busushoko Haki is essentially a necessity. Also I wouldn't go as far as to say that Ace is heavily dependent on his Devil Fruit, yes its his main method of combat but as seen with Blackbeard Ace can hold his ground on close combat even while being at the disadvantage of lacking Kenbunshoku despite Blackbeard having it. Cracker's defensive capabilities is indeed no joke but as we know Cracker can't whip up an infinite amount of Biscuit Soliders, he's been shown to make them for a few hours but here he's fighting someone who can fight for 5 days and nights non stop while at a elemental disadvantage and proceeded to challenge a Yonko afterwards without any rest. Not to mention that Ace should be smarter than Cracker or at least smart enough to realize when to back off and take advantage of his range advantage over Cracker, the Mera Mera no Mi has a decent amount of range and AoE to it along with complimenting his already superhuman agility.
 
>>Ace's scaling to Teach and the others Shirohige's Commanders, not Cracker.

Ace scales to other WB coomanders, who scale to Cracker, who scales to Duffy if you want to be really technical. I was under the impression everyone knew that but if you must be literal then there you go. None of this changes what I said.

>>You said it, not me. The bounties don't represent strength but threat level.

Tomato Tomatoe

>>The Logia powers ain't compromised against Haki. Rin already explained that

Again I was refering to the intangibility thikning I didn't need to spell it out. If you want to make technical go ahead. Same end result.

>>If there's a stat difference at all (which is totally unknown at the moment), Ace'd be stronger than Cracker due to having better feats against stronger people.

As you said, it is unknown. That's because Ace has no good calcs of his own power. Nor do the rest of the WB coomanders. The Cracker scaling is as I said, based on equalization, not feats.
 
The Whitebeard Commanders aren't scaling to Doffy, they scale to the rest of the Yonko Commanders as they should all be similar in strength. Why would it be the same end result? Ace can use his fruit without abusing his intang as seen with Blackbeard. If he wants he could just play the range game which was his main method of combating Blackbeard and Blackbeard had the ability to absorb said projectiles. Cracker doesn't have that luxury. While it's true that Ace doesn't have his own calc neither does Cracker. It's just that Ace scales to characters who are stronger than Cracker is.
 
@Fix Try to be a little more specific, otherwise you'll be spreading misinformation about these kind of things.

IIRC you was the one who said that the Shirohige's Commanders are the characters with the best feats in the series among the Commanders. It's not a general rule, but Ace has feats of that level, while Cracker doesn't and while it's arguably comparable, whether superior or inferior is unknown.
 
Umm no, you do not recall correctly. I def did not say that.

I'm not going to get into Ace being stronger then he is currently. One of you will have to make a CRT for that. Currently Ace's profile very clearly links him to comparable (but weaker) than Cracker, though not for very good reasoning.

So yes, Crackers stats are better. Ace can spam range attacks but Crackers range will ultimately be better since he can swarm a moving army, each soldier being comparable to Ace. His stamina will ultimately be better since he can chill out while Ace exhausts himself, even on the off chance it takes five days.
 
Comparable could mean stronger or weaker. There's no indication of which one. So as you can sayCracker's stats are better we could say the same for Ace since you have as many proofs as we do.
 
Cracker's infinity spam of biscuit soldiers vs Ace's fire projection and stamina.

Even Gear Third Luffy has a problem with Cracker's shilds and this should be a problem to Ace as well.

But i doubt that Ace can't one-shot true Cracker with a serious attack. This should be decided in Ace's firts attack due Cracker lacks dura feats.

So, Ace can control the trajectory of his fire balls, and he should do the Same with his Entei, destroying the entire biscuit army and Cracker with his extreme heat manipulation. And Ace still have flight to realize a better mobility.

Ace wins.
 
>>But i doubt that Ace can't one-shot true Cracker with a serious attack. This should be decided in Ace's firts attack due Cracker lacks dura feats.

At what point did Ace show comparable power to tankman?
 
I remember something about the biscuit being harder after a lightning attach tho not sure if it's from the anime or the manga Cracker . I would give Ace the stamina and endurance The durability goes to the cracker biskut he can handle gear 3rd easily He can summon infinite amount of soldiers who are on bar with gear 3td Luffy He was able to damage luffy in his gear 4th (pound man ) doesn't that make him > Doffy in AP ace has armament no info about observation mean while as far as I remember cracker does have both.
 
The reasons above were

Ace has better stamina

Countered by Cracker just chilling while his biscuits do the fighting

Ace has better range

Countered by Cracker's biscuits swarming the battle field

Ace has more power

Countered by what is written on their profiles

So unless someone brings up new reasons, FRA votes in favour of Ace shouldn't count.
 
^That's very true, which is why i reiterated the why. Unlike "Still Ace FRAs" which does not explain the why .
 
The Biscuit Soldiers should not be at Ace's level, and Ace has a lot of AoE due to the explosive and burst range of his Devil Fruit. The only major issue he has to deal with is Cracker's Haki, and Cracker avoiding the fight in general. The thing is that Ace has superior range, while Cracker is strictly melee with his sword.

If Cracker leaps in, he MAY land a hit, but he's almost guaranteed to get countered, whether he misses, is blocked, or lands a strike in general. He claims to not be capable of standing pain, so I think one solid hit will have him go into a panic, and fight less efficiently. Meanwhile, Ace can hold up a fight for over 5 days while Cracker was heaving after fighting Luffy for approximately 11 hours.

Either way, if we take both at their presumed highest stats, then Ace is far stronger than the Biscuit Soldiers, and doesn't have to worry about putting forth an intense amount of effort to destroy one of them. His logia form still allows him to maneuver in a way that is impossible for Cracker to reliably predict, as he is a non-solid material, so he could possibly pull an Aokiji or Katakuri move and open a hole in his body and let the attack pass through before landing a Fire-fist to the face.

Ace has these advantages: Stamina, Body Control, Range/AoE, AP and Dura over the Biscuit Soldiers (which scale to around base-line High 7-A)

Cracker has these advantages: Busoshoku will allow him to land a hit on Ace's Logia body if it actually connects, and he has numbers.

The way it looks, I'm leaning more towards Ace.

Edit: I removed the Kenbunshoku argument since... that's not confirmed for Ace.
 
@Cin can you explain where you get Ace's greater AP/Dur? Also, Ace never showed the abilities Kuzan or Katakuri have, nor FS. Furthermore, how long did he fight against BB for?

Lastly, how do you propose Ace counters the vast range his Soldiers can cover when they disperse, or manage to surround and attack from all angles?
 
??? Ace scales between >838GT and 2.5GT, the Biscuit soldiers merely scale >838GT and <<<<2.5GT (1-shot by Bound Man after its shield broke)

Nothing stops Ace from sending his fire attacks out at every angle, so I don't think it would be a problem. Remember fire-pillar? That surrounds every horizontal vector he has.

Cracker's the only serious threat here, and his Biscuit Soldiers would only be capable of slowing Ace down somewhat.
 
@Cin you didn't really answer the question. I asked where you get his higher stats. You simply reitterated Ace has higher stats. Why do you think he has higher stats?

IIRC you were the one who recently told me Ace's entei has only town level AP.
 
Yes, and Cracker doesn't have good destruction feats. He's even below Ace's level when it comes to destroy things so what's your point?

Plus, we scale the attacks to the character's AP. Otherwise most punches would be Athlete level at best if they don't show any destruction.
 
I literally said where Ace and the Biscuit Soldiers scale.

Lmao, I honestly hope you're trolling right now, Fix. Entei scales to Ace's AP. I merely stated the attack, if calculated, would only generate town level AP, so it would not be good for scaling.

"Why do you think he has higher stats?" Read the profiles. I'm not holding your hand through this.
 
You can both drop the attitude and more over, stop editing profiles in the mist of a versus matchup. It is massively fraudulent to mess with profiles to suit your stance on an on-going VS matchup. Now back to the matter, I asked a reasonable question:

Where does Ace get higher AP from?

You responded with numbers, but no why.

So I'll ask again, where does Ace get 838 megatons & 2.5 Gigatons (Btw I fixed that for you since 838 gigatns makes no sense what so ever, youre welcome).

& @Calaca: you're right, we don't just use destructive feats from. Cracker doesn't destroy mass amounts of matter but he has great stats as proven against Luffy. Here's the thing though, Ace doesn't have those.
 
Fix, it's downright rude if not needless to accuse people because it suits you.

The profiles are there, you were told quite directly where Are scales from. You even erroneously said he scales from Charlotte when that's simply untrue, he laughs from the Whitebeard commanders that generally have better feats than the Big Mom's commanders.

Yet still, Calaca just pointed our how we have no basis to say it swings to one or the other side beyond the fact Ace scales to people that have more outright impressive feats, simple as that. You are just complicating it.
 
Do you want another feat that was already stated above? In the novel Ace managed to burn Shirohige. Albeit it was a slight burn, that's something that happened once they get into more assassination attempts, meaning that Ace was getting stronger over-time.

Cracker's only feat is cutting Luffy's arm, but only his skin. While Ace can match Aokiji, hurt Kurohige and stand back after clashing with Akainu.

So if we're going by feats, Ace's are better.

BTW, what attitude? I legit asked your point because you sounded like Ace would drop a 7-C fire when he's High 7-A. So my reply was that Cracker would launch a bunch of 9-C cuts then.
 
@Calaca if you would like to scale Ace to WB by all means feel free to create a CRT or bring it up in the ongoing OP thread. I do not think you'll succeeed, but still that is your perogative. Until such time Ace doesn't get his statistic from WB. Ace gets his statistic (and btw I am using the profiles as they were at the time of this matchup rather then the unauthorized overnight edits) Jozu who gets it from Cracker, specifically:

Jozu & Ace high 7-A

Cracker At Least high 7-A and high 7-A for each BS.
 
Scaling Ace to 6-C for just making a slight burn is ridiculous and I feel surprised that you suggested me to do it. It's like punching someone and he feels a little pain (since it was deemed as no big deal despite the surprise of having a little injury) so no, I don't need to create a CRT to upgrade Ace based on a single feat that barely matters. It's just a supportive feat that tells us he's not the regular YC.

Don't forget the profiles have been edited according to the revisions. If the ratings changed then we must stick to the currently accepted stats and not the older ones since those are outdated.
 
BTW to those reading this thread and are new or just don't know you can see edit history of profiles by going under the arrow next to "Edit" then click "history". then choose a date. @Calaca please do not paint me as ridiculous just because I told you your options. I could have called you ridiculous for bringing it up but I rather stick to facts then insults. I'm off to bed now. I'll respond tomorrow.
 
@Calaca

Yeah but Ace has better experience and versatility with Mera Mera (Ex: can make white fire and have a better control of his fruit in general)
 
Dr.Fix said:
You can both drop the attitude and more over, stop editing profiles in the mist of a versus matchup. It is massively fraudulent to mess with profiles to suit your stance on an on-going VS matchup.
Click to expand...
You mean how the profiles were edited as discussed in length in a thread you were participating in? Don't make stuff up and accuse me. You're ridiculous for making such claims when you KNOW the changes were underway the past couple days.

Literally accepted and applied starting 2 days ago. And oh look, you're in the thread, so you KNOW exactly what was going on. So no, it's not on a whim, so you can stop at any time.
 
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