Goth Material vs Apparently Instrument Material (Rae vs Bass) [1-8-0]

[noninho]

Speed is =, both at 5-A (Which means Treble's fusioning restricted, since it makes him high 5-A).
Bass's Optional Equip are restricted, Treble's equipment doesn't say he carries items, so he don't heal or have spare bodies for Bass, SBA for the rest

Rae-Rae: 1

Bass: 8

Incon:

 

[noninho]

3 things i'd like to point before anything:

1- Bass downscales to high-end class T LS, while Rae has herself a feat for that, meaning her TK should work on Bass

2- Bass does not deal with TS, Intangibility nor Portal-BFR

3- Could not find anywhere about said shield for Bass

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

So what stops Bass from just using the Mystery Tank and transmuting Raven with it considering its a screen nuke weapon, meaning it hits everything around Bass all at once. I'd also like to point out that Bass has a One-Shot worthy AP Advantage even in Base.

 

[noninho]

So what stops Bass from just using the Mystery Tank and transmuting Raven with it considering its a screen nuke weapon, meaning it hits everything around Bass all at once.

since we're talking about a mix from playing with bass and his bosses, we can't say it'd be IC to use it right away, also as i pointed above he's weaker in LS, so his movements will get restricted if he reaches for a strange weapon all the sudden...i'm even inclined to say he'll get his movements restricted right away. Also, let's not forget Rae also has Transmutation+Reality Warping...

I'd also like to point out that Bass has a One-Shot worthy AP Advantage even in Base.

one-shot-worthy would be 7x or more, get me a calc for that statement please. Also, Rae isn't that easy to hit, we have Intangibility and Astral Projection at her side

 

[Chaos Jester25]

I'd also like to point out that Bass has a One-Shot worthy AP Advantage even in Base.

Does he? I know the one shot gap changed but because I’ve been busy with other stuff, I don’t know what the exact value is.

1.Bass downscales to high-end class T LS, while Rae has herself a feat for that, meaning her TK should work on Bass

I think I might be reading the values wrong but I’m pretty sure that Bass’ calc is bigger than Raven’s. If anything, Bass should upscale from the value considering that current Mega Man should be far stronger now than he was when he did the feat. Bass also has attacks that he can control after he fires them such as Remote Mine. He also has moves like Lightning Bolt which should work while restrained. So Telekinesis shouldn't be too much of an issue

2- Bass does not deal with TS, Intangibility nor Portal-BFR

I already addressed TS.

How often does Raven use intangibility? Does she spam it?

Raven's profile says that Raven's magic only has planetary range. Does the same apply for her BFR? If so, then Bass should be able to teleport back.

3- Could not find anywhere about said shield for Bass

Plant Barrier and Leaf Shield(This isn't Bass using it but it functions the same way). Despite the gaps seeming big, the leaves spin so fast that they block most incoming attacks.

Also, let's not forget Rae also has Transmutation+Reality Warping...

There's only one clip for the Transmutation and its Raven using it to mess with Beast Boy. That implies it's not really in character in a combat scenario.

Also, Rae isn't that easy to hit, we have Intangibility and Astral Projection at her side

How does the Astral Projection work? The profile doesn't really explain it.

 

[Migue79]

Does he? I know the one shot gap changed but because I’ve been busy with other stuff, I don’t know what the exact value is.

The gap’s 5x now. But nah, Bass don’t one-shot. He comes close to doing so: 2.94 Ronnatons vs. 11.42 Ronnatons (a 3.9x AP lead between Raven and Bass).

Also, there’s something funky with Raven’s LS rating: the calc says the tower weighs 23,278,384,179.462 kg or 23.278 billion kg which is Class G. But she’s rated at Class T. So, hmm… Bass does indeed have the LS advantage due to Raven having the wrong LS rating and should probably be revised.

 

[noninho]

I think I might be reading the values wrong but I’m pretty sure that Bass’ calc is bigger than Raven’s. If anything, Bass should upscale from the value considering that current Mega Man should be far stronger now than he was when he did the feat. Bass also has attacks that he can control after he fires them such as Remote Mine. He also has moves like Lightning Bolt which should work while restrained. So Telekinesis shouldn't be too much of an issue

i lost on that LS point, as Migue pointed out later. Remote Mine won't matter much as the reach doesn't seem to be so far and rae's a ranged fighter. Don't have the time to search through the video to look at how Lightning Bolt works, please re-link it?

How often does Raven use intangibility? Does she spam it?

As we see it, she doesn't need too much, she mainly dodges by flying or shields, but she can do that enough.

Raven's profile says that Raven's magic only has planetary range. Does the same apply for her BFR? If so, then Bass should be able to teleport back.

Well, i deeply believe she can ban him to another dimension, but i lack the proof for it. Even so, Teleport is explicitely stated to be non-combat applicable, so... yeah. Luckily BFRing like that won't be immediate IC for Rae, but its an option.

Plant Barrier and Leaf Shield(This isn't Bass using it but it functions the same way). Despite the gaps seeming big, the leaves spin so fast that they block most incoming attacks.

Her explosion manip can deal with those with rather ease, also throwing the objects around would slowly deal with those leafs 1-by-1, too.

There's only one clip for the Transmutation and its Raven using it to mess with Beast Boy. That implies it's not really in character in a combat scenario.

Transmutation may not, yes, that's mb. but RW can and will be used if needed.

How does the Astral Projection work? The profile doesn't really explain it.

Apparently that was another mistake of mine, her astral projection is that shadow she uses when fighting trigon or on that explosion manip showcase, but it can deal with his shield and deal him a lot of damage.

can't see any of them's wincons yet, really

 

[Chaos Jester25]

i lost on that LS point, as Migue pointed out later. Remote Mine won't matter much as the reach doesn't seem to be so far and rae's a ranged fighter. Don't have the time to search through the video to look at how Lightning Bolt works, please re-link it?

i only brought them up because they could be used in case Bass was restrained. They're not really noteworthy otherwise.

As we see it, she doesn't need too much, she mainly dodges by flying or shields, but she can do that enough.

Bass already has experience with flying opponent and shield users. Bass also could likely bypass the shields with his AP advantage.

Well, i deeply believe she can ban him to another dimension, but i lack the proof for it. Even so, Teleport is explicitely stated to be non-combat applicable, so... yeah. Luckily BFRing like that won't be immediate IC for Rae, but its an option.

It's only non combat applicable in the sense that Bass can't spam it to avoid attacks. He can still use it to travel long distances.

Her explosion manip can deal with those with rather ease, also throwing the objects around would slowly deal with those leafs 1-by-1, too.

Fair point on explosion manip but the latter doesn't seem to useful. Especially because there's nothing stopping him from recreating them.

Transmutation may not, yes, that's mb. but RW can and will be used if needed.

What does the R.W actually do?

Apparently that was another mistake of mine, her astral projection is that shadow she uses when fighting trigon or on that explosion manip showcase, but it can deal with his shield and deal him a lot of damage.

Bass is over 3 times more durable so he should be able to take it very well. He also has healing items so if it does severely harm him, he could easily heal up.

 

[noninho]

i only brought them up because they could be used in case Bass was restrained. They're not really noteworthy otherwise.

'k, then.

Bass already has experience with flying opponent and shield users. Bass also could likely bypass the shields with his AP advantage.

he'd bypass the shield once, and Rae'd change her strategies. Also, Rae has a lot more intelligence to prepare a strategy on the fly (maybe even more experience, tho idk how i'd try arguing that so i'll leave this point for now)

It's only non combat applicable in the sense that Bass can't spam it to avoid attacks. He can still use it to travel long distances.

if it's stated that it's NCA, then we'll be treating as that, but since Rae's wincon hasn't been discussed to be BFR-related so far, let's not proceed this line of thought yet (tho i reeeeeeeeeeeally stand for not being available for any use).

Fair point on explosion manip but the latter doesn't seem to useful. Especially because there's nothing stopping him from recreating them.

actually that is something, the energy from the power. He can only do that a couple of times before his bar drops to 0. i'd say he can summon it like, 10 times at max?

What does the R.W actually do?

Well the one-time she used it, she could perfectly recreate everything and everyone on a completely devastated earth, so i'd say she can basically do some sort of what RW wiki page lists.

Bass is over 3 times more durable so he should be able to take it very well. He also has healing items so if it does severely harm him, he could easily heal up.

dunno where you took that 3x advantage when "possibly higher" is stated on her profile, but what we can guarantee is that he does not have healing items, mate.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
questions i have abt Bass:
Flight, Duplication, Mystery Tank...how do them work?
Tell me about his wincons,as ya see them.

 

[Chaos Jester25]

he'd bypass the shield once, and Rae'd change her strategies. Also, Rae has a lot more intelligence to prepare a strategy on the fly (maybe even more experience, tho idk how i'd try arguing that so i'll leave this point for now)

Bass' rival is a character who regularly comes up with plans on the fly. Bass should also be a pretty skilled strategist considering that he can normally match Rock.

if it's stated that it's NCA, then we'll be treating as that, but since Rae's wincon hasn't been discussed to be BFR-related so far, let's not proceed this line of thought yet (tho i reeeeeeeeeeeally stand for not being available for any use).

Right after it says NCA it says he can use it to travel long distances. It's not applicable in ocombat because it's not something that would be useful in most combat scenarios.

actually that is something, the energy from the power. He can only do that a couple of times before his bar drops to 0. i'd say he can summon it like, 10 times at max?

Bass can summon his dog Treble. Treble can supply Bass with items that refill weapon energy.

Well the one-time she used it, she could perfectly recreate everything and everyone on a completely devastated earth, so i'd say she can basically do some sort of what RW wiki page lists.

i don't know how that would be helpful offensively.

dunno where you took that 3x advantage when "possibly higher" is stated on her profile,

My bad. It might not be 3 times. but we don't know how much Raven upscales from the feat, so it should be assumed that she's still weaker than Bass.

but what we can guarantee is that he does not have healing items, mate.

My bad, I thought Bass had E-Tanks as part of his standard equipment. He can still get them from Treble though.

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
questions i have abt Bass:
Flight, Duplication, Mystery Tank...how do them work?

flight; Not super useful in base form. h can use it to dash short distances. Not really useful all things considered.

Duplication: Bass can create a holographic clone of himself that can fire off buster shots. Might serve as a good distraction.

Mystery Tank: If Bass has full health and weapon energy while using an M Tank, every enemy in the nearby vicinity gets turned into a spare body (aka a video game life)

Tell me about his wincons,as ya see them.

I see Bass' biggest advantage here is his combat applicable Type 8. He can come back from death at least 9 times. Him dying over and over would allow him to learn Raven's moves and counter them.

Bass isn't really super haxed but he still has some durability ngating stuff like fire hotter than the earth's core and ice manipulation. As well as numerous special weapons with different uses. On top of this, the fight will be a two on one considering that Bass has Treble with him. Treble can also attack Raven with energy based attacks and can heal Bass. I don't think that Raven has the skills to kill Bass at least nine times (I said at least because Treble can also give Bass spare bodies) before Bass can take her out.

 

[noninho]

Bass' rival is a character who regularly comes up with plans on the fly. Bass should also be a pretty skilled strategist considering that he can normally match Rock.

match? but the two .. rounds of their fight in canon sound absolutely one-sided for Rock : V (you can maybe argue at max about he getting mid-diffed and those videos are really good gameplay, but i'm really inclined to say he's getting low-diffed on those fights). Also, nice to say: Bass' weakness clearly states that rivalry is one-sided

Right after it says NCA it says he can use it to travel long distances. It's not applicable in ocombat because it's not something that would be useful in most combat scenarios.

i'm really against using in combat something that explicitly states it cannot be used in combat.

Bass can summon his dog Treble. Treble can supply Bass with items that refill weapon energy.

My bad, I thought Bass had E-Tanks as part of his standard equipment. He can still get them from Treble though.

On top of this, the fight will be a two on one considering that Bass has Treble with him. Treble can also attack Raven with energy based attacks and can heal Bass. I don't think that Raven has the skills to kill Bass at least nine times (I said at least because Treble can also give Bass spare bodies) before Bass can take her out.

Treble's restricted, please read the OP.

flight; Not super useful in base form. h can use it to dash short distances. Not really useful all things considered.

Duplication: Bass can create a holographic clone of himself that can fire off buster shots. Might serve as a good distraction.

Mystery Tank: If Bass has full health and weapon energy while using an M Tank, every enemy in the nearby vicinity gets turned into a spare body (aka a video game ife)

'k, none of those serves for rae, for starters cuz he can't do nothing about getting his mind read...
also, before that M Tank AoE hits Rae, she can pull her invulnerability (cuz by that time, she'd already figure out her shield doesn't work)...but before that
he doesn't even have that on his Standard Equip (nor Optional, but if something's not on Standard, would be there, and his are restricted), so he won't have that...

I see Bass' biggest advantage here is his combat applicable Type 8. He can come back from death at least 9 times. Him dying over and over would allow him to learn Raven's moves and counter them.

Bass isn't really super haxed but he still has some durability ngating stuff like fire hotter than the earth's core and ice manipulation. As well as numerous special weapons with different uses.

i mean, that for sure will giver some job, but what about her trying to destroy him? i'm really inclined to tell he won't die all those times before Rae trying to wreck his dead body apart or simply...not leaving the IC Chip intact. Let's remember Rae's super-duper intelligent (and Bass isn't that much).

Rae can deal with all of Bass' strategies and eventually with all the lives he's able to use, be them 9 or be them like...3.
Voting raven FRA

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

You can't restrict Treble, only the Super Bass form since Treble on his own doesn't change Bass' tier.

 

[noninho]

You can't restrict Treble, only the Super Bass form since Treble on his own doesn't change Bass' tier.

Not seeing a particular reason for that not being possible, mate
Treble doesn't change Bass' tier not being there too, except... being another 5-A+, who's bringing healing and another lives to Bass

 

[Chaos Jester25]

Not seeing a particular reason for that not being possible, mate
Treble doesn't change Bass' tier not being there too, except... being another 5-A+, who's bringing healing and another lives to Bass

I’ll adress the other points tommorow because I’m tired but I will respond to this one right now.

If you want the match to be added, then you’re not allowed to restrict things like abilities or summons unless they leave the character’s tier.

Treble is considered a part of Bass’ standard equipment, so he cannot be restricted. The only thing you can restrict is Bass’ optional equipment and his fusionism.

 

[noninho]

You can't restrict Treble, only the Super Bass form since Treble on his own doesn't change Bass' tier.

I’ll adress the other points tommorow because I’m tired but I will respond to this one right now.

If you want the match to be added, then you’re not allowed to restrict things like abilities or summons unless they leave the character’s tier.

Treble is considered a part of Bass’ standard equipment, so he cannot be restricted. The only thing you can restrict is Bass’ optional equipment and his fusionism.

Aight, OP has been changed, so i'm renewing my vote for Rae by:

Being a mastermind, she'll end up screwing the robots, it'll be a little bit more difficult since it became a 2v1 now.
She'll end up Bass' 1st "life" first, then Treble will get wrecked.
Treble can't revive, Bass'll revive and go "oh sh*t, that girl just killed my dog!" and proceed to try again to kill Rae
Rae's not dumb, she'll get that there's something going on that just repaired completely the parts she broke/exploded/wrecked/etc, and try with new parts, until she hits the IC chip or the 9 "lives" get drained...just like before.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Aight, OP has been changed, so i'm renewing my vote for Rae by:

Being a mastermind, she'll end up screwing the robots, it'll be a little bit more difficult since it became a 2v1 now.
She'll end up Bass' 1st "life" first, then Treble will get wrecked.
Treble can't revive, Bass'll revive and go "oh sh*t, that girl just killed my dog!" and proceed to try again to kill Rae
Rae's not dumb, she'll get that there's something going on that just repaired completely the parts she broke/exploded/wrecked/etc, and try with new parts, until she hits the IC chip or the 9 "lives" get drained...just like before.

You're making Bass sound like an idiot and making Raven more competent than she should be here, he's not gonna just continuously try to rush her or whatever, at some point he's gonna spawn in and immediately use the Mystery Tank which will instantly kill Raven by turning her into extra lives and there's no way she'd be able to destroy the IC chip either since it instantly transfers upon his death, otherwise the extra lives wouldn't be combat applicable like they're shown being in the games and even the Manga. Even if that specific piece of evidence isn't canon its still a useful reference.

 

[Smashtwig]

I honestly disagree with Ultra's take (as with a lot of other takes NGL lmao Minato is not that good lol) that somehow all Mega Man characters or just characters in general go in immediately bloodlusted and act completely optimally starting on frame 1 like on some FC/OC bull. I think that Mystery Tank would be one of the last things a Mega Man Character would try, it had never worked on boss enemies (I think), which Raven would definitely qualify as. They don't know about "resistances" and how some people just don't have it, they arent debators like us who wire our brains differently and just throw every hax at the wall with very convienent profiles at our fingertips. Why would they waste their time trying something that in their eyes, has worked a grand total of 0 times against boss enemies. They're robots. They're efficient, and with the data they have on this very specific interaction, they wouldn't even dare to try it for just offensive purposes- wasting an M Tank to try and Transmutate someone they would logically believe would be resista to WOULD be an idiotic move when they could have waited to use the M Tank in a better way, listed below

However, this does change when Bass would be lower on health, where there IS incentive to use the Mystery Tank for an effect they know for sure actually works- healing, which is definitely something that is in character, and then the Transmutation side effect would kick in

 

[Chaos Jester25]

match? but the two .. rounds of their fight in canon sound absolutely one-sided for Rock : V (you can maybe argue at max about he getting mid-diffed and those videos are really good gameplay, but i'm really inclined to say he's getting low-diffed on those fights). Also, nice to say: Bass' weakness clearly states that rivalry is one-sided

There's nothing in canon that implies Bass got stomped. when it comes to video games we typically assume the main character struggles somewhat unless there's a statement that implies otherwise. it is possible for Rock to lose his first fight against Bass meaning Bass should be somewhat comparable. Bass was also capable of beating a RockMan Shadow (An evil version of Mega Man from 30 years into the future) which is further proof for them being comparable kill wise..

The rivalry being one sided doesn't really mean anything. They've still fought at least 6 times in canon.

i'm really against using in combat something that explicitly states it cannot be used in combat.

I've already explained what it means by that. it's not combat applicable because it's completely useless in most combat scenarios. I was the person who got it added in the first place. If anyone should know about the intent of the ability's description, it should be me.

k, none of those serves for rae, for starters cuz he can't do nothing about getting his mind read...
also, before that M Tank AoE hits Rae, she can pull her invulnerability (cuz by that time, she'd already figure out her shield doesn't work)...but before that
he doesn't even have that on his Standard Equip (nor Optional, but if something's not on Standard, would be there, and his are restricted), so he won't have that...

How are you supposed to read the mind of something that doesn't have a mind? Bass is a robot so telepathy shouldn't work.

That is the profiles fault and since it's not on a profile, you have a point.

i mean, that for sure will giver some job, but what about her trying to destroy him? i'm really inclined to tell he won't die all those times before Rae trying to wreck his dead body apart or simply...not leaving the IC Chip intact. Let's remember Rae's super-duper intelligent (and Bass isn't that much).

Bass' immortality has him come back from his body being blown apart. He explodes upon defeat so there's nothing for Raven to tinker with after he's destroyed. Also, Raven wouldn't know about the IC chip so I doubt she would specifically target it.

Also, most of Raven's attacks are just energy blasts, that's something that Bass should be more than capable of avoiding. Especially since Energy Projection is the most common type of attacking the entire franchise. Bass has plenty of experience dealing with that.

She'll end up Bass' 1st "life" first, then Treble will get wrecked.
Treble can't revive, Bass'll revive and go "oh sh*t, that girl just killed my dog!" and proceed to try again to kill Rae
Rae's not dumb, she'll get that there's something going on that just repaired completely the parts she broke/exploded/wrecked/etc, and try with new parts, until she hits the IC chip or the 9 "lives" get drained...just like before.

Bass isn't an idiot. He's dealt with numerous different robot masters with a variety of different abilities. And like i said, he beat a future version of Rock. You're going under the assumption that Raven should easily be able to kill Bass despite Bass having better stats, a more versatile move pool, and as far as I can tell more skill.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

If it isn't obvious then I'm voting for Bass.

 

[noninho]

You're making Bass sound like an idiot and making Raven more competent than she should be here, he's not gonna just continuously try to rush her or whatever

his pattern of action is clearly enough for the Robot Masters, who doesn't have remarkable intelligence, but he does the exact same things on the 2 rounds we can see of him fighting megaman, his only nice enough feat...where he gets low diffed. twice. Also, idk where you took that part of "raven shouldn't be that competent" when she clearly is not just more intelligent than him, but has a **** ton of combat experience too, with more variety than what bass has, i should add.

at some point he's gonna spawn in and immediately use the Mystery Tank which will instantly kill Raven by turning her into extra lives

please read the thread, just above my comment on restrictions i've spoken about it. He doesn't have M tanks here.

there's no way she'd be able to destroy the IC chip either since it instantly transfers upon his death, otherwise the extra lives wouldn't be combat applicable like they're shown being in the games and even the Manga. Even if that specific piece of evidence isn't canon its still a useful reference.

His profile is clearly stating the chip needs to be ok, so if she kills him by destroying another part, it'll regenerate and she can destroy another one, making that chip not be ok, consequently, he not being able to revive. it's that simple.

If it isn't obvious then I'm voting for Bass.

under what wincon? (sorry, until you tell me i can't add the vote)

I honestly disagree with Ultra's take (as with a lot of other takes NGL lmao Minato is not that good lol) that somehow all Mega Man characters or just characters in general go in immediately bloodlusted and act completely optimally starting on frame 1 like on some FC/OC bull.

Who's Ultra? Who's Minato? i'm so confused, but yeah, they don't do it, no.

I think that Mystery Tank would be one of the last things a Mega Man Character would try, it had never worked on boss enemies (I think), which Raven would definitely qualify as. They don't know about "resistances" and how some people just don't have it, they arent debators like us who wire our brains differently and just throw every hax at the wall with very convienent profiles at our fingertips. Why would they waste their time trying something that in their eyes, has worked a grand total of 0 times against boss enemies. They're robots. They're efficient, and with the data they have on this very specific interaction, they wouldn't even dare to try it for just offensive purposes- wasting an M Tank to try and Transmutate someone they would logically believe would be resista to WOULD be an idiotic move when they could have waited to use the M Tank in a better way, listed below

However, this does change when Bass would be lower on health, where there IS incentive to use the Mystery Tank for an effect they know for sure actually works- healing, which is definitely something that is in character, and then the Transmutation side effect would kick in

ok, as i've pointed out before: there's no M Tank listed on his Standard equip. So he does not have any of those, lol.
Like, his main wincon on people's head, which WOULD be nice in this battle, ngl, is just not there...and if it's not there, it's a strange type of optional equipment, which is restricted lmfao.

There's nothing in canon that implies Bass got stomped. when it comes to video games we typically assume the main character struggles somewhat unless there's a statement that implies otherwise. it is possible for Rock to lose his first fight against Bass meaning Bass should be somewhat comparable. Bass was also capable of beating a RockMan Shadow (An evil version of Mega Man from 30 years into the future) which is further proof for them being comparable kill wise..

The rivalry being one sided doesn't really mean anything. They've still fought at least 6 times in canon.

i'm just not convinced by that first part, nor that possibility of Rock losing...Also, what's the condition of that rockman shadow dude? who made him?
Yes it does, just reinforces my point that Rock is superior to him via not caring about that rivalry and just living his life, which as i could see for Bass, offends him and added to Rock wrecking him, makes him come to Rock enraged, like "come Rock, fight me again!!!!! This time i'll beat you".
still, i've only seen 3 times they fight and at max we can say Bass got mid-diffed, what about the other 3? could you please send them here?

I've already explained what it means by that. it's not combat applicable because it's completely useless in most combat scenarios. I was the person who got it added in the first place. If anyone should know about the intent of the ability's description, it should be me.

i'm still against using what says cannot be used in combat, but let's not derail more here since we're now developing Rae dealing with him via besting his immo, since we're not getting anywhere on this point and it may not be used.

How are you supposed to read the mind of something that doesn't have a mind? Bass is a robot so telepathy shouldn't work.

That is the profiles fault and since it's not on a profile, you have a point.

"

1. Non-Living Beings: Robots, AI or other inorganic beings, that have no consciousness beyond what the physical functions of their bodies grants them. This type of character is typically immune to Soul Manipulation due to lacking a soul and is also unaffected by many common forms of Mind Manipulation, since they neither have an organic brain to be manipulated nor have a non-physical consciousness. Since these characters usually also don't have something like life force and aren't alive in the usual sense in the first place, they are furthermore unaffected by common forms of Life Manipulation and Death Manipulation." ~from Inorganic Fisiology's page on the wiki.

Nothing said about Mind-Reading-Telepathy, so she can read his mind, just not manipulate it. Doesn't matter for now, but still.

Bass' immortality has him come back from his body being blown apart. He explodes upon defeat so there's nothing for Raven to tinker with after he's destroyed. Also, Raven wouldn't know about the IC chip so I doubt she would specifically target it.

Explain to me how does his body explode but the chip is intact? And also, never mentioned Rae would wreck the chip directly, just try attacking new parts of his body that, being exploded/crumpled/etc would not make the chip intact anymore whose damage would go from not revive him correctly/entirely to not being able to revive him at all.
But more than anything else: if this chip explodes with his body when he dies, how does it need to me intact for that to work? Why isn't it pointed out in his profile that he necessarily explodes when he dies?

Also, most of Raven's attacks are just energy blasts, that's something that Bass should be more than capable of avoiding. Especially since Energy Projection is the most common type of attacking the entire franchise. Bass has plenty of experience dealing with that.

Rae's attacks would not be that just like Bass' won't be just shots, the difference is that she'd know how to not make Bass just stay still and attack her. Would be like, from the short experience i have w/ mega man, fighting Wood Man, Crash Man and dodging shots at the same time (Rae can somewhat do what they do on the fights, that's what i mean)

Bass isn't an idiot. He's dealt with numerous different robot masters with a variety of different abilities. And like i said, he beat a future version of Rock. You're going under the assumption that Raven should easily be able to kill Bass despite Bass having better stats, a more versatile pool, and as far as I can tell more skill.

He tries basically the same things when fighting against Rock (and idk about that future-rock-guy conditions, so i don't take that into account like his profile's doing), which works against Robot Masters cuz they were made by Wily...a reccurringly-shown-idiotic-figure on the franchise.
If you won't take that into account, let's remember he's so far been bullied by Rock, and that i've not implied that he's completely dumb in all spheres, just compared to Rae he is.
Yeah, he has a versatile pool, yeah he has dunno-how-much nicer stats, but for sure not more intelligence and far from having more skill.

 

[Chaos Jester25]

I'm just not convinced by that first part, nor that possibility of Rock losing...Also, what's the condition of that rockman shadow dude? who made him? Yes it does, just reinforces my point that Rock is superior to him via not caring about that rivalry and just living his life, which as i could see for Bass, offends him and added to Rock wrecking him, makes him come to Rock enraged, like "come Rock, fight me again!!!!! This time i'll beat you".
still, i've only seen 3 times they fight and at max we can say Bass got mid-diffed, what about the other 3? could you please send them here?

You essentially just responded to my first point with "Nuh uh". You need to give an actual reason why you don't buy something or it's not a proper debunk.

Rockman Shadow is from 30 years into Mega Man's future. Wily kidnapped RockMan Shadow in an attempt to have him beat Rock from the past. Wily didn't like how RockMan Shadow came out, so he trashed RockMan Shadow. This made RockMan shadow resentful leading to him aking a robot army ad destroying his version of earth. He goes back in time and Bass (or Mega Man) end ou defeating him and his army.

The reason that Rock doesn't view Bass as a rival is because he doesn't have rivals. Rock doesn't care about being better than anyone else. He's a pacifist at heart so he doesn't care about fighting as much as someone like Bass.

Two of them happen mostly off screen but the main point is that Rock and Bass fight regularly.

1. Non-Living Beings: Robots, AI or other inorganic beings, that have no consciousness beyond what the physical functions of their bodies grants them. This type of character is typically immune to Soul Manipulation due to lacking a soul and is also unaffected by many common forms of Mind Manipulation, since they neither have an organic brain to be manipulated nor have a non-physical consciousness. Since these characters usually also don't have something like life force and aren't alive in the usual sense in the first place, they are furthermore unaffected by common forms of Life Manipulation and Death Manipulation." ~from Inorganic Fisiology's page on the wiki.

Nothing said about Mind-Reading-Telepathy, so she can read his mind, just not manipulate it. Doesn't matter for now, but still.

The telepathy page directly says that its associated with Mind mpanipulation. You kind of need a mind to have your mind read. Bss doesn't have any conventional thoughts or feelings because he's a robot. There's nothing to read.

Explain to me how does his body explode but the chip is intact? And also, never mentioned Rae would wreck the chip directly, just try attacking new parts of his body that, being exploded/crumpled/etc would not make the chip intact anymore whose damage would go from not revive him correctly/entirely to not being able to revive him at all.
But more than anything else: if this chip explodes with his body when he dies, how does it need to me intact for that to work? Why isn't it pointed out in his profile that he necessarily explodes when he dies

It's not ever explained. The chis just happen to survive and instantly move on to the next body once the old body is blown up.

Rae's attacks would not be that just like Bass' won't be just shots, the difference is that she'd know how to not make Bass just stay still and attack her. Would be like, from the short experience i have w/ mega man, fighting Wood Man, Crash Man and dodging shots at the same time (Rae can somewhat do what they do on the fights, that's what i mean)

Bass has beaten enhanced versions of both of those characters so that doesn't really hold up. Most of Raven's useful stuff is stuff that Bass already has experience with or stuff that doesn't work thanks to Bass' physiology. I don't see what she is supposed to do here which could give her an advantage.

He tries basically the same things when fighting against Rock (and idk about that future-rock-guy conditions, so i don't take that into account like his profile's doing), which works against Robot Masters cuz they were made by Wily...a reccurringly-shown-idiotic-figure on the franchise.

The former professional scientist who taught himself to make advanced A.I through reverse engineering a robot built by the smartest guy on the planet. The guy who was able to hack into countless robots to the point when not even the world's leading scientist in robotics can prevent his hacking. The guy who made a virus that lasted long after he died and caused major damage for multiple millenia. The guy who created Zero?Are we talking about the same Dr.Wily? i'd like to see the instances of Wily being reuccuringly idiotic?

Also the robot masters aren't idiots either. They all have their own sets of skills and fighting patterns that they specialize in and excel in and they've been made to use their skills the best as possible.

If you won't take that into account, let's remember he's so far been bullied by Rock, and that i've not implied that he's completely dumb in all spheres, just compared to Rae he is.

Until you have proof that Rock completely stomps the hell out of Bass, then it's all completely headcanon.

You have been implying that though. You've acted like Bass is an idiot who just wins everything through brute strength.

Also, you keep hyping up Raven's intelligence when all I can gather from her intelligence section is that she's skilled with magic(which is vague), she's multilingual (which doesn't matter in most fights), and she reads a lot (book smarts aren't combat smarts). You have not given me any actual skill feats. You just keep Raven's smarter and expect me to accept that without backing it up.

Yeah, he has a versatile pool, yeah he has dunno-how-much nicer stats, but for sure not more intelligence and far from having more skill.

He still has nicer stats considering that Raven is only somewhat above Trigon considering it took multiple hits for her to beat him. You kee[ on saying Raven's smarter but until you back up your claims with feats, they mean nothing.

 

[noninho]

Rockman Shadow is from 30 years into Mega Man's future. Wily kidnapped RockMan Shadow in an attempt to have him beat Rock from the past. Wily didn't like how RockMan Shadow came out, so he trashed RockMan Shadow. This made RockMan shadow resentful leading to him aking a robot army ad destroying his version of earth. He goes back in time and Bass (or Mega Man) end ou defeating him and his army.

A robot rejected from Wily? lmao. Well, if him or mega man defeats him and he was made by Wily, what differs him from the other robot masters?

The reason that Rock doesn't view Bass as a rival is because he doesn't have rivals. Rock doesn't care about being better than anyone else. He's a pacifist at heart so he doesn't care about fighting as much as someone like Bass.

Two of them happen mostly off screen but the main point is that Rock and Bass fight regularly.

yeah, and that lack of caring sounds to me like something that "enfuriates" more Bass
And Bass' pattern of action is a lot similar on 3 of those fights, if 2 of them happened mostly off-screen, there's only one lacking here to look, but still, for now, Bass more-regularly-than-not gets beaten by Rock with ease.

The telepathy page directly says that its associated with Mind mpanipulation.

aight, i think the "read-only-file" logic won't work here, i lost on that point.

It's not ever explained. The chis just happen to survive and instantly move on to the next body once the old body is blown up.

well ok then, but another question comes up:
Where would he respawn? By the game logic so far, i'd think he would respawn at Central Park's (SBA's battle location) door, which means that if Rae kills him once, he'll auto-BFR himself to a location rather far lmao.
Anyway, apparently there's no way to damage this chip, so if he dies, he'll have to find Rae again and try the fight again.
Also, he'd not have 9 lives, cuz we're not giving him any equip/item he'd get from the stages, so it's safe to say he has 3, which is how many he has when the game starts, right?

Bass has beaten enhanced versions of both of those characters so that doesn't really hold up. Most of Raven's useful stuff is stuff that Bass already has experience with or stuff that doesn't work thanks to Bass' physiology. I don't see what she is supposed to do here which could give her an advantage.

yeah he did, that was just an example mate : V.
Also yeah, he has experience with some of the things Rae'd do, but Rock is also doing basically just that and defeating him with ease, meaning he's not the best strategist we have to cite here, so Rae being a master-mind and doing basically what Rock, Bass and a ton of other robots do, but on her style rather than being robotic, yeah, she does win.

The former professional scientist who taught himself to make advanced A.I through reverse engineering a robot built by the smartest guy on the planet. The guy who was able to hack into countless robots to the point when not even the world's leading scientist in robotics can prevent his hacking. The guy who made a virus that lasted long after he died and caused major damage for multiple millenia. The guy who created Zero?Are we talking about the same Dr.Wily? i'd like to see the instances of Wily being reuccuringly idiotic?

the ending of megaman games up to at least 4? But anyway, as i imagined you'd pull of feats pro-wily, my point just below that is completely pointing Bass as not-so-smart, mb for calling Wily and idiot, i guess.

Until you have proof that Rock completely stomps the hell out of Bass, then it's all completely headcanon.

i've brought 2 rounds of them fighting, already, mate.
he does about the same thing(s) and lose with ease, as i've been saying for quite some time rn

ou have been implying that though. You've acted like Bass is an idiot who just wins everything through brute strength.

what i've been implying is that Bass is not the smartest guy like the Robot Masters aren't too, while Raven is clearly stated to be an exquisitely smart person, via having the highest rank of intelligence on the wiki :V

Also, you keep hyping up Raven's intelligence when all I can gather from her intelligence section is that she's skilled with magic(which is vague), she's multilingual (which doesn't matter in most fights), and she reads a lot (book smarts aren't combat smarts). You have not given me any actual skill feats. You just keep Raven's smarter and expect me to accept that without backing it up.

i thought it was clear enough that she has a f*ck ton of experience too with fighting varied-power-level supervillains including her dad, a multidimensional threat who actually destroys earth (we don't know how much time before the show starts+5 seasons of on and off screen feats+movie(s)). Also, book smarts can be used as combat smarts (how can you say someone's not a good strategist when that person's a good chess player?), it's reccuringly a theme on multiple media including this show.
Rae had to deal with guys from a large pool of variation of power and strategies, from street criminals to Slade, her dad Trigon, Terra, and various others, some of them more than once (and when they did appear more than once, they woudn't try the exact same things lmao)

Anyway, yes a gifted character won't have a hard time strategy-wise with "a remarkable AI that's free" who tries basically the same things against his rival and got beaten with at-max-mid-diff at least 2 times?

He still has nicer stats considering that Raven is only somewhat above Trigon considering it took multiple hits for her to beat him. You kee[ on saying Raven's smarter but until you back up your claims with feats, they mean nothing.

second part responded above, but how do you say that when she clearly just hit him a couple times and proceeded to delete trigon's ass when she became "true-white-raven"?

 

[Chaos Jester25]

A robot rejected from Wily? lmao. Well, if him or mega man defeats him and he was made by Wily, what differs him from the other robot masters?

Dr.Wily kidnaps Rock from the future and tries to turn him into RockMan Shadow, but he didn't like how RockMan Shadow turned out. It's lieteray a future version of Mega Man. Despite this Bass and MegaMan have the skill to beat him.

yeah, and that lack of caring sounds to me like something that "enfuriates" more Bass
And Bass' pattern of action is a lot similar on 3 of those fights, if 2 of them happened mostly off-screen, there's only one lacking here to look, but still, for now, Bass more-regularly-than-not gets beaten by Rock with ease.

It infuriates Bass that Rock constantly tries to pacify Bass. Bass enjoys fighting which puts him at odds with Rock, a pacifist. That's why Bass is infuriated by him.

You keep on saying that Rock always stomps Bass without providing proof. I already explained that because of how much gamer skill can vary, we normally assume that video game characters do struggle a bit during fights unless stated otherwise. And when I provided proof (the fact that Rock can lose to Bass in their first fight of MM7) of the opposite you flat out ignored it.

yeah he did, that was just an example mate : V.
Also yeah, he has experience with some of the things Rae'd do, but Rock is also doing basically just that and defeating him with ease, meaning he's not the best strategist we have to cite here, so Rae being a master-mind and doing basically what Rock, Bass and a ton of other robots do, but on her style rather than being robotic, yeah, she does win.

Rock is also far more skilled and versatile than Raven. And I'm not just referring to Rock. Bass has beaten numerous robot masters and other enemies that have used abilities similar to Raven.

I do not at all buy that raven is more skilled than Rock considering that the stuff you list seems far less impressive than anything on Rock's skill level.

what i've been implying is that Bass is not the smartest guy like the Robot Masters aren't too, while Raven is clearly stated to be an exquisitely smart person, via having the highest rank of intelligence on the wiki :V

Raven only has the highest intelligence rank on the wiki if you ignore the fact that there 5 intelligence ranks higher than gifted :v,

Also, intelligence rankings don't mean anything if characters doesn't have the feats to back them up

the ending of megaman games up to at least 4? But anyway, as i imagined you'd pull of feats pro-wily, my point just below that is completely pointing Bass as not-so-smart, mb for calling Wily and idiot, i guess.

I genuinely have no idea what youre talking about here. All of those game's endings have Rock beat Wily and Wily bow down to him before escaping. I'm okay with you not knowing about Mega Man stuff but it gets annoying when you pretend that you do and spread blatant misinformation.

All of those intelligence feats for Wily should prove that Bass isn't stupid considering that he's able to navigate Wily's trap filled castles and easily beat all of Wily's other robots. You're going off of the stupid boss A.I in gameplay ras\ther than how the characters are portrayed in lore.

i thought it was clear enough that she has a f*ck ton of experience too with fighting varied-power-level supervillains including her dad, a multidimensional threat who actually destroys earth (we don't know how much time before the show starts+5 seasons of on and off screen feats+movie(s)). Also, book smarts can be used as combat smarts (how can you say someone's not a good strategist when that person's a good chess player?), it's reccuringly a theme on multiple media including this show.
Rae had to deal with guys from a large pool of variation of power and strategies, from street criminals to Slade, her dad Trigon, Terra, and various others, some of them more than once

The thing is thought that that's basically what Bass and Mega Man do. They fight against robots with a variety of different origins. The robot masters also have different abilities strengths specialties, and levels of experience and yet Rock and Bass are still able to beat them. They also have shown to be able to near instantly master the abilities they copy from those opponents. Street thugs aren't really comparable to roots made by super geniuses.

Book smarts do help in a fight but they're not as useful as combat smarts. Just because a scientist might have a higher IQ doesn't mean they could beat a professional boxer in a street fight.

(and when they did appear more than once, they woudn't try the exact same things lmao)

When robot masters come back they often have multiple physical enhancements and new abilities. If this in reference to wily you're still blatantly wrong, Wily is incredibly stubborn but normally he takes multiple different approaches to conquering the world.

well ok then, but another question comes up:
Where would he respawn? By the game logic so far, i'd think he would respawn at Central Park's (SBA's battle location) door, which means that if Rae kills him once, he'll auto-BFR himself to a location rather far lmao.
Anyway, apparently there's no way to damage this chip, so if he dies, he'll have to find Rae again and try the fight again.
Also, he'd not have 9 lives, cuz we're not giving him any equip/item he'd get from the stages, so it's safe to say he has 3, which is how many he has when the game starts, right?

He would probably respawn nearby. You're aware that the opponent needs to be BFR'd for a week for it to be a victory? Self BFr should be an issue for 3 reasons:
1. Bass has teleportation that can let him travel long distances so he could teleport back.
2. Under speed equalization , they're either relativistic or they're MFTL+. There's no way that Bass couldn't scour all of Central Park near instantly with speeds like that.
3. Bass is stubborn as hell so he likely would track down Raven.

With the current profile I guess that would be a safe assumption.


if it wasn't clear, I'm voting Bass, I completely stand by all of my points and you haven't given me any valid reason to think Raven would win.

 

[Migue79]

Bass is literally a copy of Mega Man and is based on Mega Man's combat data. So Bass definitely would scale to Rock in skill. He can also beat King who could easily beat Proto Man who's also comparable to Mega Man. So... More proof Bass is relative to Mega Man in skill.

Something else to consider is that Knight Man literally won 1000 duels against other combat robots. So... Yeah. Super impressive robots (and more impressive than street thug stuff)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But yeah... I think Chaos has summed up my own thoughts well. I also vote for Instrument Material FRA.

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

Bass FRA

 

[noninho]

aight, this is getting sorta annoying and i'm tired of going back and forth
won't take my vote, but i'll count y'all's (also counting soulofcinder's)

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

I don't think OP can vote?
Obviously OP can still argue for either characters

 

[Smashtwig]

I don't think OP can vote?
Obviously OP can still argue for either characters

actually contrary to popular belief they can

Also yeah I'm gonna have to agree with noninho about the M-Tank, it's not listed as Standard Equipment so we shouldn't treat Bass like he does

...until he eventually has it on the page lol

 

[noninho]

I don't think OP can vote?
Obviously OP can still argue for either characters

yes, OP can vote
he gets to vote 1 time just like everyone else

 

[SonicBayo1999]

Bassed FRA

 

[Kaio1277999]

Bass fra

 

[noninho]

I guess it's grace

not yet, 1 vote away

 

[Kaio1277999]

Bump

 

[Kaio1277999]

Bump

 

[koopa3144]

Bass fra

 

[JustANormalLemon]

The gap’s 5x now

One-Shot

A One-Shot is a self-explanatory term, referring to defeating an opponent with a single attack. Take two hypothetical opponents. We'll call them Fighter A and Fighter B. In a normal fight, Fighters A and B can exchange several attacks with each other. When one of the fighters can one-shot...

vsbattles.fandom.com

still 7.5 unless this is outdated

anyway, reading everything seens like Bass takes this one, bass fra

 

[noninho]

1-8-0
Grace starts