Gon Freecss Vs. Yoriichi Tsugikuni (1-7-0) (Grace)

[Kenboxx]

Agree with everything.
Still, if he can only use Ken for 30min: How would it happen that he one-shotted a guy who HE HIMSELF SAYS he would die if it wasn't for his Ken, fought a ton of people stronger than him and made serious damage if didn't win the battle, and is uncapable of doing damage to a guy 10x less AP and Durability and equal speed?

I never said I thought Yoriichi would win this fight if you go back to my first comment I said that if the fight drags out and becomes a battle of who can outlast the other than Gon loses

I was just saying that if Gon can't beat him before he start to run low on aura then he loses Gon

 

[noninho]

I never said I thought Yoriichi would win this fight if you go back to my first comment I said that if the fight drags out and becomes a battle of who can outlast the other than Gon loses

I was just saying that if Gon can't beat him before he start to run low on aura then he loses Gon

"i never said x would win a 1v1. Just said if this happens, y loses"
How does that make any sense, mate? kek

Well, by the battles he had with others in similar conditions, i still think Gon wins by outsmarting his opponent

 

[Kenboxx]

"i never said x would win a 1v1. Just said if this happens, y loses"
How does that make any sense, mate? kek

Well, by the battles he had with others in similar conditions, i still think Gon wins by outsmarting his opponent

Well when talking about who would win there many ways a fight could go in a drawn out fight I think Gon would lose but in a short fight I think he wins that's what I was saying I think it comes down to if Gon can beat him before he start to run low on aura

 

[noninho]

Well when talking about who would win there many ways a fight could go in a drawn out fight I think Gon would lose but in a short fight I think he wins that's what I was saying I think it comes down to if Gon can beat him before he start to run low on aura

I'm pretty sure i could argue about why it wouldn't be a long fight, but Grace time's ending so there's no point anymore

 

[Nehz_XZX]

Except Gon has this power listed to this level, and Yoriichi doesn't...He won't be able to grow in power, but he will react, keep trying to kill, dodge, etc, but not directly upgrade since he doesn't have it listed like Gon...Or you're saying that demons can be more than 10x stronger than the strongest biggest baddest Demon Slayer of the verse and he grows temporarily to their level (via what his profile talks about his Stats Amp, since the way his Accelerated Development works doesn't apply to mid-battle) which would make no sense.

Zenitsu's amps work differently than the Yoriichi's, and it make total sense in the show's context. Yoriichi is crazier than anyone existing in the verse, but he didn't knew everything or could do everything. The thematic is pretty much about how the new gen's boys are growing stronger and capable of things the older weren't, which we could simplify and seeing a "compressed" version by seeing how they differ in the same power!
Also, yeah, Yoriichi smacks Zenitsu and UM6, but it isn't like an RPG where "everyone got EXP by going to the Train Raid and watching Rengoku's cinematics!" (it was an example, only), it's a capability that Zenitsu and Yoriichi don't.


Ahm, yeah, he is the craziest baddest mf and that means a whole lot in the show! agreed! That's really meaningful for that verse!
Gon also got to be (known for those who haven't met a greater menace) the craziest baddest mf at some point, he's stated to have the potential of 1/5000000 (i think if we consider him and the others who came after, we could get to a similar range), and as a kid got a lot of buffs that most doesn't have! And also, a kid who was learning the same thing as him took longer to do a lesser version too!
If that's what makes him "absolutely far superior to Gon and able to decapitate him in split-second", then remember that they have this much level of similarities (considering your statements) and they're the same in every relevant stat except LS and after buffing.


cool demon, but we're not actually talking about nothing remotely close to ordinary senses. Nen's already invisible for anyone who can't use it, the use of In makes attacks and/or the aura as a whole invisible for nen users who aren't using Gyo. Again, Gon has been through a lot of battles where "wow, i have no time to charge this attack!!!" being in there, and still managed to use Jajanken to win or for bating! Remember Jajanken has more than one form, and two of them are for long-range (Only rock needs charging)!
Getting the knowledge that he can see and dodge really fast from things, developing a strategy where he's forced to come closer and try to go through Gon's moves is nothing impossible (it would go for Gon even discovering that the guy can go by what he's thinking and try changing that too, i think).

Why does he have better mobility than Gon?
Please, try comparing a move that Akaza has to this. Yes, Akaza has a cool move, but Gon can do way more things (and would beat Akaza, remember that except speed and LS, he has the same stats as Yoriichi)
Takes no special concentration to keep Ten activated 24/7, changing from Ken to others is faster than Gon himself. Never said it would be of any use in decapitation, no clue where you got that.

What I'm saying is that a fight like that with the amount of physical exertion it requires would qualify as a form of "training" for his body and could therefore conceivably lead to him becoming better. This basically just ties in with the rest of the section that you didn't quote. He isn't suddenly going to acquire Reactive Power Level from nowhere and his Statistics Amplification from his Sun Breathing and Demon Slayer Mark are always active but if this fight drags on for multiple days, then there is no way he isn't going to improve like Killua did against Binolt despite not having Reactive Power Level though that did include rest.

That statement comes from Mitsuri who never even met Zenitsu at that point, so it would generally apply to people who can fight Upper Moon 6 and get out of that experience alive and that statement is the justification for Tanjiro and Inosuke having Accelerated Development as well. There is certainly a theme about the characters we are following growing stronger but most of them never actually surpass the "older generation" and the same can be said for most of what they are capable of. Zenitsu and Inosuke created a new form and a new Breath Style respectively but in the end they never even got a Demon Slayer Mark with Tanjiro being the only one from his batch from the Final Selection, the entrance exam of the Demon Slayer Corps, to acquire one. It's mostly the Pillars who end up fighting and defeating the Upper Moons as well as acquiring Demon Slayer Marks and the associated abilities. Even after Tanjiro acquired full mastery over Sun Breathing and therefore became arguably the strongest demon slayer at that point he still ended up needing help from the Pillars against a severely weakened Muzan since he was still nowhere near close to Yoriichi's level which is entirely unsurpassed and without equal in the series. Accelerated Development is something Gyomei and Muichiro have, the same is the case for Reactive Power Level for Giyu and Sanemi, so this is definitely not a showcase of something the new generation can do but the older generation can't.


Now you're beginning to actually exaggerate my position. I'm not saying that Yoriichi will have it outright easy against an intelligent opponent with statistics greater than Muzan and the speed to keep up with him. What I want to say is that Yoriichi's level of talent and skill is far superior to Gon's based on what I know and there could indeed be context in the case of Gon that I'm missing here. What I do know in Yoriichi's case is that he ended up becoming the progenitor of Breath Styles which became the primary fighting styles used by the Demon Slayer Corps which means that he is the progenitor of not just a fighting style but the progenitor of an entire branch of fighting styles. The Breath Styles that we know were derived from Sun Breathing and teached by Yoriichi during his time in the Demon Slayer Corps are Moon Breathing, Flame Breathing, Water Breathing, Lightning Breathing, Wind Breathing and Stone Breathing. Yoriichi is the person who is single-handedly responsible for causing what is considered the golden age of demon slaying and it is said that the generation of Pillars during the events of Kimetsu no Yaiba is the best one since Yoriichi's despite 500 years having passed since then. This is the impact he had on an organization that already existed for 500 years before he came along and we know that he was only part of the organization for 7 or less years.

There is also Yoriichi Type Zero which is a battle doll based on Yoriichi that uses 6 arms and katanas since two arms aren't enough to come even close to replicating what he was capable of and despite having 108 techniques it is still inferior to Yoriichi. Even after centuries of withering and eroding it was still sought out by Muichiro for training purposes. Yoriichi's talent made his brother Michikatsu abandon his humanity and betray the Demon Slayer Corps by becoming the demon Kokushibo since he was despairing about never being able to catch up to Yoriichi in his remaining lifespan, which was admittedly only until he becomes 25 as far as he was aware due to demon slayers with the Demon Slayer Mark inexplicably beginning to die once they reached that age, despite all of his hard work since childhood and centuries later records about what Sun Breathing was capable of made Rengoku's father despair and feel incompetent to the point of outright quitting and becoming an alcoholic after his wife died despite coming from a family that provided the Flame Pillar for every generation since Yoriichi's. Muichiro being related to Yoriichi is used by his Kasugai Crow as a reason to brag. Yoriichi essentially gave an immortal monster, who devours humans and is the progenitor for other monsters like him with him being the by far strongest one of them all, PTSD that never went away even after 500 years passed.

Yoriichi's very first fight was without prior training with a sword instructor who was simply humoring him and only taught him how to properly hold a sword and he still won that fight almost instantly. Yoriichi also didn't receive buffs since they were present from the very moment he was born since he already had the Demon Slayer Mark and Transparent World as a newborn baby. Someone else taking longer to learn an inferior version of what he is capable of is a description that can also be applied to Kokushibo's case since nobody was able to learn his Breath Style as well and I've elaborated just how far above Kokushibo Yoriichi is. Most of the scenes involving Yoriichi don't have him learning things but instead we see how talented he is and how he is the one teaching instead. Does Gon have an influence and prestige as well as showcases of just how talented he is on that level in his series? Gon's 1/5000000 becomes comparatively unimpressive if you consider that the Sengoku period during which Yoriichi lived has an estimated Japanese Population of over 10000000. Muzan has lived for over 1000 years and he had a large number demons with whom he was telepathically connected to all across Japan and he still never met anyone other than Yoriichi who was even close to his level, so you'd need to consider the total sum of the Japanese population across a period of time as long as a 1000 years which will make that number you gave for Gon look outright tiny.


The point with that demon is that Tanjiro's Extrasensory Perception did not help him with perceiving the attacks of that demon and he needed help from Yushiro in order to see them. Gon is up against a genius with skill and talent on a much higher level than him with the way I understand the situation. Him being able to turn a difficult situation around doesn't mean that he can do that with any difficult situation and any and all of Gon's attacks regardless of form or range will suffer from the slow motion problem. With Yoriichi having the skill advantage as well as Analytical Prediction I'd say that it's Gon who will have difficulties if Yoriichi is close. If Yoriichi is far away, then that only exacerbates the problem of him seeing Gon's attacks in slow motion. Trying to distract him sufficiently to get an opening will be a gargantuan task since he can keep track of 1800 individual small pieces, so I don't see that happening. Gon's higher Attack Potency won't help him until he can actually hit Yoriichi with that.

I've already previously mentioned that Yoriichi has Acrobatics whereas Gon doesn't have that. A place like Times Square should have plenty of obstacles and corners through which Yoriichi could navigate better vertically and horizontally. This means that while they both move with the same speed Yoriichi is less affected by potential negative effects the environment might have on his mobility, so he'll have the advantage when it comes to closing the distance or keeping it.
Akaza may not have something as versatile as Nen but with the number of shockwave attacks he can launch simultaneously and the fact that it allows for a Danmaku maneuver he has something that is incredibly difficult to defend against if you don't just outright have far superior Attack Potency and Durability, so skill that would allow you to just avoid an attack like that unscathed without Akaza even noticing that you did that like what happened with Tanjiro who unlocked the Transparent World would quite certainly be relevant.

Would require about 2 blows for Gon's pain resistance not being enough to Yoriichi's decapitation, if not more.

Was I supposed to interpret this differently?

Still, if he can only use Ken for 30min: How would it happen that he one-shotted a guy who HE HIMSELF SAYS he would die if it wasn't for his Ken, fought a ton of people stronger than him and made serious damage if didn't win the battle, and is uncapable of doing damage to a guy 10x less AP and Durability and equal speed?

That's leaving a lot of context about Yoriichi out if you ask me.

"i never said x would win a 1v1. Just said if this happens, y loses"
How does that make any sense, mate? kek

Well, by the battles he had with others in similar conditions, i still think Gon wins by outsmarting his opponent

It makes sense to me. I'm not sure what your issue is here.

Would that include Yoriichi's skill level and intelligence? Yoriichi may not have feats of outsmarting or surprising people through creativity but he is still someone whose intellect is highly adept at grasping the principles of combat and knows how to assess strengths and weaknesses and how to adapt to them even if he doesn't have much time. This is on top of being a calm person who can apparently maintain enough clarity in his mind to count 1800 pieces even in a tense situation where he is presumably doing everything he can to avoid failure.

I'm pretty sure i could argue about why it wouldn't be a long fight, but Grace time's ending so there's no point anymore

I don't mind just continuing this debate. Thinking about what exactly to answer is actually pretty fun to me.

 

[noninho]

I don't mind just continuing this debate. Thinking about what exactly to answer is actually pretty fun to me.

me too, but if i change your mind doesn't make any difference (don't think i'll be making another one of the same fight) here and now, since grace period was declared.
But i was thinking some cool battle ideas and muzan came up in some of them! so expect to be bothered about him anytime soon :>

was really fun but i concede due to lack of time.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

was really fun but i concede due to lack of time.

It doesn't exactly feel satisfying if the deciding factor is a lack of time but whatever.

 

[Elixirr]

What I'm saying is that a fight like that with the amount of physical exertion it requires would qualify as a form of "training" for his body and could therefore conceivably lead to him becoming better. This basically just ties in with the rest of the section that you didn't quote. He isn't suddenly going to acquire Reactive Power Level from nowhere and his Statistics Amplification from his Sun Breathing and Demon Slayer Mark are always active but if this fight drags on for multiple days, then there is no way he isn't going to improve like Killua did against Binolt despite not having Reactive Power Level though that did include rest.

That statement comes from Mitsuri who never even met Zenitsu at that point, so it would generally apply to people who can fight Upper Moon 6 and get out of that experience alive and that statement is the justification for Tanjiro and Inosuke having Accelerated Development as well. There is certainly a theme about the characters we are following growing stronger but most of them never actually surpass the "older generation" and the same can be said for most of what they are capable of. Zenitsu and Inosuke created a new form and a new Breath Style respectively but in the end they never even got a Demon Slayer Mark with Tanjiro being the only one from his batch from the Final Selection, the entrance exam of the Demon Slayer Corps, to acquire one. It's mostly the Pillars who end up fighting and defeating the Upper Moons as well as acquiring Demon Slayer Marks and the associated abilities. Even after Tanjiro acquired full mastery over Sun Breathing and therefore became arguably the strongest demon slayer at that point he still ended up needing help from the Pillars against a severely weakened Muzan since he was still nowhere near close to Yoriichi's level which is entirely unsurpassed and without equal in the series. Accelerated Development is something Gyomei and Muichiro have, the same is the case for Reactive Power Level for Giyu and Sanemi, so this is definitely not a showcase of something the new generation can do but the older generation can't.


Now you're beginning to actually exaggerate my position. I'm not saying that Yoriichi will have it outright easy against an intelligent opponent with statistics greater than Muzan and the speed to keep up with him. What I want to say is that Yoriichi's level of talent and skill is far superior to Gon's based on what I know and there could indeed be context in the case of Gon that I'm missing here. What I do know in Yoriichi's case is that he ended up becoming the progenitor of Breath Styles which became the primary fighting styles used by the Demon Slayer Corps which means that he is the progenitor of not just a fighting style but the progenitor of an entire branch of fighting styles. The Breath Styles that we know were derived from Sun Breathing and teached by Yoriichi during his time in the Demon Slayer Corps are Moon Breathing, Flame Breathing, Water Breathing, Lightning Breathing, Wind Breathing and Stone Breathing. Yoriichi is the person who is single-handedly responsible for causing what is considered the golden age of demon slaying and it is said that the generation of Pillars during the events of Kimetsu no Yaiba is the best one since Yoriichi's despite 500 years having passed since then. This is the impact he had on an organization that already existed for 500 years before he came along and we know that he was only part of the organization for 7 or less years.

There is also Yoriichi Type Zero which is a battle doll based on Yoriichi that uses 6 arms and katanas since two arms aren't enough to come even close to replicating what he was capable of and despite having 108 techniques it is still inferior to Yoriichi. Even after centuries of withering and eroding it was still sought out by Muichiro for training purposes. Yoriichi's talent made his brother Michikatsu abandon his humanity and betray the Demon Slayer Corps by becoming the demon Kokushibo since he was despairing about never being able to catch up to Yoriichi in his remaining lifespan, which was admittedly only until he becomes 25 as far as he was aware due to demon slayers with the Demon Slayer Mark inexplicably beginning to die once they reached that age, despite all of his hard work since childhood and centuries later records about what Sun Breathing was capable of made Rengoku's father despair and feel incompetent to the point of outright quitting and becoming an alcoholic after his wife died despite coming from a family that provided the Flame Pillar for every generation since Yoriichi's. Muichiro being related to Yoriichi is used by his Kasugai Crow as a reason to brag. Yoriichi essentially gave an immortal monster, who devours humans and is the progenitor for other monsters like him with him being the by far strongest one of them all, PTSD that never went away even after 500 years passed.

Yoriichi's very first fight was without prior training with a sword instructor who was simply humoring him and only taught him how to properly hold a sword and he still won that fight almost instantly. Yoriichi also didn't receive buffs since they were present from the very moment he was born since he already had the Demon Slayer Mark and Transparent World as a newborn baby. Someone else taking longer to learn an inferior version of what he is capable of is a description that can also be applied to Kokushibo's case since nobody was able to learn his Breath Style as well and I've elaborated just how far above Kokushibo Yoriichi is. Most of the scenes involving Yoriichi don't have him learning things but instead we see how talented he is and how he is the one teaching instead. Does Gon have an influence and prestige as well as showcases of just how talented he is on that level in his series? Gon's 1/5000000 becomes comparatively unimpressive if you consider that the Sengoku period during which Yoriichi lived has an estimated Japanese Population of over 10000000. Muzan has lived for over 1000 years and he had a large number demons with whom he was telepathically connected to all across Japan and he still never met anyone other than Yoriichi who was even close to his level, so you'd need to consider the total sum of the Japanese population across a period of time as long as a 1000 years which will make that number you gave for Gon look outright tiny.


The point with that demon is that Tanjiro's Extrasensory Perception did not help him with perceiving the attacks of that demon and he needed help from Yushiro in order to see them. Gon is up against a genius with skill and talent on a much higher level than him with the way I understand the situation. Him being able to turn a difficult situation around doesn't mean that he can do that with any difficult situation and any and all of Gon's attacks regardless of form or range will suffer from the slow motion problem. With Yoriichi having the skill advantage as well as Analytical Prediction I'd say that it's Gon who will have difficulties if Yoriichi is close. If Yoriichi is far away, then that only exacerbates the problem of him seeing Gon's attacks in slow motion. Trying to distract him sufficiently to get an opening will be a gargantuan task since he can keep track of 1800 individual small pieces, so I don't see that happening. Gon's higher Attack Potency won't help him until he can actually hit Yoriichi with that.

I've already previously mentioned that Yoriichi has Acrobatics whereas Gon doesn't have that. A place like Times Square should have plenty of obstacles and corners through which Yoriichi could navigate better vertically and horizontally. This means that while they both move with the same speed Yoriichi is less affected by potential negative effects the environment might have on his mobility, so he'll have the advantage when it comes to closing the distance or keeping it.
Akaza may not have something as versatile as Nen but with the number of shockwave attacks he can launch simultaneously and the fact that it allows for a Danmaku maneuver he has something that is incredibly difficult to defend against if you don't just outright have far superior Attack Potency and Durability, so skill that would allow you to just avoid an attack like that unscathed without Akaza even noticing that you did that like what happened with Tanjiro who unlocked the Transparent World would quite certainly be relevant.

Was I supposed to interpret this differently?


That's leaving a lot of context about Yoriichi out if you ask me.


It makes sense to me. I'm not sure what your issue is here.

Would that include Yoriichi's skill level and intelligence? Yoriichi may not have feats of outsmarting or surprising people through creativity but he is still someone whose intellect is highly adept at grasping the principles of combat and knows how to assess strengths and weaknesses and how to adapt to them even if he doesn't have much time. This is on top of being a calm person who can apparently maintain enough clarity in his mind to count 1800 pieces even in a tense situation where he is presumably doing everything he can to avoid failure.


I don't mind just continuing this debate. Thinking about what exactly to answer is actually pretty fun to me.

oh my lord

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Oh, I believe grace has ended. Sadge. I was going to argue for Gon.

 

[SuperStar]

Yea, I was surprised I didn't see you arguing for Gon

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Yea, I was surprised I didn't see you arguing for Gon

A lot of misconceptions of the character, and while Yo is far more skilled, he couldn't possibly beat Gon unless he outlasted him.

Well, I guess he might've won through that.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

A lot of misconceptions of the character, and while Yo is far more skilled, he couldn't possibly beat Gon unless he outlasted him.

If there are misconceptions, then I think that it would be good to clear them up.

 

[Lord_Axolotl]

Crazy suggestion, could Yoriichi potentially learn to use nen during the fight? Hear me out: when nen is first introduced, we are told that non nen users can learn nen through exposure to nen in high quantities - unless I'm remembering it wrong this is how the spinning top guy and the guy in the wheelchair who uses whips from Heavens Arena learned to use nen, it just somewhat mangled their bodies in the process. Gon and Killua also first gained the ability to use nen by Wing exposing them to nen and opening their 'nen pores' (I forget what they were actually called, but basically my understanding is that these are what allow nen to flow out of the body and become external; all humans have them, but they are only open in nen users.). As Yoriichi is a monster when it comes to learning abilities - he went from no ability with the sword to becoming unparalleled and untouchable by watching his brother have a lesson once - is it theoretically possible that he could learn to use nen if the battle drags out long enough?

 

[SuperStar]

Crazy suggestion, could Yoriichi potentially learn to use nen during the fight?

No