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Goku vs Galeem

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In the Master Hand thread somebody said Master Hand is ridiculously high end Low 2-C since he's stronger than SSB Arceus who is vastly stronger than SSB Dialga who is Low 2-C via being born or something.
 
Peter1129 said:
In the Master Hand thread somebody said Master Hand is ridiculously high end Low 2-C since he's stronger than SSB Arceus who is vastly stronger than SSB Dialga who is Low 2-C via being born or something.
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So the scaling is like this...

Galeem>>Tabuu>>>Master Hand/Crazy Hand>>>Arcues>>Dialga=Low 2-C

Seems unquantifiable, and personally, not that ridiculously high end.

Dragon Ball has insane scaling chains because of their three hundred ******* transformations. I think they could compete.
 
I think somebody once said something about characters that are Low 2-C via being born is the highest possible end of Low 2-C or something. But I'm not entirely sure so it's probably better to ask somebody who's an expert on this stuff.
 
Master Hand/Crazy Hand's Low 2-C is on the level of Arceus is literally a toy. An actual, inanimate, toy.

So.... yeah.
 
Christian Higdon said:
Explain how Giga Bowser didn't AP stomp...
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Bowser would never be able to hit Goku. People agreed that Bowser had higher AP but he was a mindless brute and simply lacked the mental capacity to stragize on the fly. In comparison, Master Hand and Crazy Hand are both at least intelligent to know when someone is trying to punk them.

Goku also has Reactive Power Level; the longer the battle goes, the stronger he gets. and since Bowser is unable to hit Goku due to Ultra Instinct + Speed Equal, Goku will eventually get strong enough to at least KO Bowser.

At least that's what I got from the thread.
 
Well IZ is also low 2-C via existing, and people scale above him.
 
Peter1129 said:
I think somebody once said something about characters that are Low 2-C via being born is the highest possible end of Low 2-C or something. But I'm not entirely sure so it's probably better to ask somebody who's an expert on this stuff.
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I disagree with that notion.

Being born Low 2-C should either make you baseline or unquantifiably higher if the character grew up and grew somewhat stronger.

A baby is born 10-C, but they aren't the "highest possible end of 10-C" or anything. A baby wouldn't be able to defeat a person in a wheelchair for instance.

The same thing applies on a greater scale, or at least I think it does.
 
A baby being born is 10-C, but grown humans generally aren't. Being born doesn't really take effort on the part of the baby either.

That's what that sort of thing is getting at. Characters having completely effortless tier 2 feats. Which both characters scale from so luckily we can compare in a more regular way.
 
From what I remember in one of the threads. Infinite Zamasu is baseline Low 2-C for merging with a single universe's space-time. Being Low 2-C via existing is the highest possible end of Low 2-C.
 
Peter1129 said:
From what I remember in one of the threads. Infinite Zamasu is baseline Low 2-C for merging with a single universe's space-time. Being Low 2-C via existing is the highest possible end of Low 2-C.
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In terms of sheer feats anyways. Characters can obviously scale up stronger from a character that's Low 2-C for existing.
 
Wokistan said:
A baby being born is 10-C, but grown humans generally aren't. Being born doesn't really take effort on the part of the baby either.
That's what that sort of thing is getting at. Characters having completely effortless tier 2 feats. Which both characters scale from so luckily we can compare in a more regular way.
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Most adults aren't 10-C, but a paraplegic is, look at Charles Xavier's profile for proof.

I'm just saying being born a certain tier doesn't make you ridiculously high in that tier without the feats/scaling/statements to prove it.
 
The more important part is how its not something that takes effort on the part of the thing doing it. If my existence alone is tier 2, me actually trying should be a lot more potent.
 
Wokistan said:
The more important part is how its not something that takes effort on the part of the thing doing it. If my existence alone is tier 2, me actually trying should be a lot more potent.
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Like I said that's unquantifiably higher than baseline. How potently unquantifiable is dependent on later feats.

A comparison I can think off is that Dark Souls character whose life is connected to the Sun's existence. That's an effortless bond maintain by sheer existence, but that character isn't in the upper echelons of 4-C as shown by his lack of a "+" symbol. This one.

And existence isn't effortless, it takes energy and work, so it's not something completely without effort.

But saying something like it's "the highest possible end of Low 2-C" sounds incorrect to me.
 
Wokistan said:
The more important part is how its not something that takes effort on the part of the thing doing it. If my existence alone is tier 2, me actually trying should be a lot more potent.
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Well it sort of depends. Just because your body generates a certain amount of power, it doesn't mean you actually have that much power at your own disposal.

Sort of like a robot. Just because it's electricity going through the body is a ridiculous 50 Gigawatts or something doesn't mean the force the robot generates in combat equals it despite it just existing having 50 gigawatts running through it.
 
Well I don't really know how high end Smash Bros Low 2-Cs are. But going by accepted multipliers UI Goku would probably be low balled (I'm not even joking here) around at least 20480000x baseline Low 2-C.
 
Peter1129 said:
Well I don't really know how high end Smash Bros Low 2-Cs are. But going by accepted multipliers UI Goku would probably be low balled (I'm not even joking here) around at least 20480000x baseline Low 2-C.
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What the ****?

He's that strong? And that's a lowball?

I know I made a jab at Dragon Ball's scaling, but Jesus, that's insane.

How'd you get that number anyway?
 
So since this is MUI Goku, the scaling is...

MUI Goku > Limit Breaker Jiren > 100% Jiren > 3rd UI Goku > Jiren (Actually trying) > Goku SSB Kaiokenx20 (Post 2nd UI) > Max Power Kefla > 2nd UI Goku > First Encounter Jiren > 1st UI Goku > Infinite Zamasu.

Take that for what you will. There's so much "The last guy was utter fodder" in that scaling it's actually legit funny.
 
So basically the low balled Low 2-C scaling goes something like this.

Mastered Ultra Instinct > Third Ultra Instinct Sign > Post-UI SSBKKx20 > Post-UI SSB > Post-2nd UIS SSBKKx20 > Second Ultra Instinct Sign > Post-UI SSG > Post-2nd UIS SSB > First Ultra Instinct Sign > Infinite Zamasu = Baseline Low 2-C

Keep in mind the Second UIS is at least 80x stronger than the First UIS. Since Post-UIS SSG Goku stomped LSS2 Kale who is much stronger than LSS1 Kale who was constantly stated by Pre-UIS SSB and SSBKK Lvl characters to be a threat.

Which means the Second UIS is at least 80x stronger than the First UIS due to Post-UIS SSG stomping an at least Pre-UIS SSBKKx2 Lvl character. Super Saiyan is accepted as an 40x multiplier on the site so SSB would be 40x SSG. And the multiplier for Fusion is (Fusee 1 Full Power + Fusee 2 Full Power) x 20-100 = Fusion Base. So I'm only gonna use the 20x end from the fusion multiplier.

Also I'm going to consider stomping or being much stronger than characters as a mere 2x multiplier. Plus Vegeta is stated to be equal to Goku Post-ToP.

Gogeta was stated in the summary to have been forced to go SSB to completely outclass LSS1 Broly which means his SS1 form is no where close to LSS1 Broly who was stated in a summary to be stronger than Jiren. So UI Goku should logically also be stronger than SS1 Gogeta who is 20480000x baseline due to all the multipliers.

1 (Infinite Zamasu) x 2 = 2 (First UIS) x 80 = 160 (Second UIS/Post-2nd UIS SSBKKx20) / 20 = 8 (Post-2nd UIS SSB) x 2 = 16 (Post-UI SSG) x 40 = 640 (Post-UI SSB) x 20 = 12800 (Post-UI SSBKKx20) + 12800 = 25600 x 20 = 512000 (Broly Arc Base Gogeta) x 40 = 20480000 (Broly Arc SS1 Gogeta)
 
It doesn't take energy just to existthough. It's required for my body to fulfil its processes, but if nothing else was allowed to act on it my corpse could last forever.
 
Does Goku have anything to stop Galeem from Morality (Mind) Haxing Goku, which it used on the original Master Hand, the Spirits, and the captured Fighters?
 
Everything12 said:
Does Goku have anything to stop Galeem from Morality (Mind) Haxing Goku, which it used on the original Master Hand, the Spirits, and the captured Fighters?
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How does that work?
 
No idea it was always used off screen, but it was used to take control of the original Master Hand before World of Light began, and was used to control all the Spirits in WoL and all the fighters, except Kirby, to make them fight for Galeem.

We don't know hows its done but its logical to assume that it was used on all the hundreds of Spirits and Fighters in-between the time Galeem finished destroyed everything with his beams and the time Kirby fought his first Spirit.
 
Everything12 said:
No idea it was always used off screen, but it was used to take control of the original Master Hand before World of Light began, and was used to control all the Spirits in WoL and all the fighters, except Kirby, to make them fight for Galeem.
We don't know hows its done but its logical to assume that it was used on all the hundreds of Spirits and Fighters in-between the time Galeem finished destroyed everything with his beams and the time Kirby fought his first Spirit.
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Sound like it's not combat applicable, offscreen brainwashing doesn't even make it sound like Galeem does it himself for sure, i mean, there are quite a few brainwashing machine in the different nintendo franchise.

So i'd say Galeem probably can't pull it off in the middle of a fight anyway.
 
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