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Goku upgrade (SPOILERS)
- Thread starter Zamasu_Chan
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Shouldn't Goku be like 2-B at this point?
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Excuse me? Explain yourself.SuhSuhGuhSuhSuhBlue said:
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Multipliers do not equal 2-B. You can be transfinite levels of infinity above a Low 2-C... and still be a Low 2-C. Same with 2-C
Goku shook an infinte empty void in his first stage of Ultra Instinct. Which would make him infinite 3D and begin edging into the 4D range. Atop of this, later in the tournament of power he gets zenkai boosts and activates Ultra Instinct once more, which would be logically stronger than his previous activation. In his mastered state he grows even stronger and with even more zenkais is able to fully overwhelm Jiren who is mentioned to be stronger than infinite Zamasu who was merging with the multiverse.
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- #86
Seed literally just said multiplyers are not used in tier two.
So, you're saying Goku transforms for no reason?
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- #88
Wow you just joined today. You should read some of the rules first
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Discussion_Rules
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Discussion_Rules
I'm familiar with the rules, the only thing new is the account.
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Ohhh. Anyway, multiplyers don't work in dimensional tiers because no matter how strong you get Yao can never cross the 5-D axis between universes unless you have the feats.
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Pretty much what Zamasu Chan said.
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Ok sooo I don't mean to change the subject all of a sudden but there's something that's been bothering me.
https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/2608478?useskin=oasis
^In this thread I was told that U7 as a whole is only one space time. HOWEVEEEER, according to the note on Zeno's profile...
"Note: We consider the universes in Dragon Ball alternate timespaces relative each other, hence why Zen'ō is rated as 2-C, despite the events in the Goku Black Saga showing parallel timelines encompassing the whole of the multiverse.
The reason for this is that Universe 7 by itself has already been shown to contain parallel space-time continuums within its globe, such as the Room of Spirit and Time, which is still affected by time travel; which proves that the new timelines can encompass other space-times as well, and thus the events in the Future Trunks Saga don't prove anything in the way of the universes being physically connected."
As you can see this is a massive contradiction and I honestly have no idea why this hasn't been pointed out yet. I was literally told that U7 only has one space time but the note says otherwise, so... eh?
https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/2608478?useskin=oasis
^In this thread I was told that U7 as a whole is only one space time. HOWEVEEEER, according to the note on Zeno's profile...
"Note: We consider the universes in Dragon Ball alternate timespaces relative each other, hence why Zen'ō is rated as 2-C, despite the events in the Goku Black Saga showing parallel timelines encompassing the whole of the multiverse.
The reason for this is that Universe 7 by itself has already been shown to contain parallel space-time continuums within its globe, such as the Room of Spirit and Time, which is still affected by time travel; which proves that the new timelines can encompass other space-times as well, and thus the events in the Future Trunks Saga don't prove anything in the way of the universes being physically connected."
As you can see this is a massive contradiction and I honestly have no idea why this hasn't been pointed out yet. I was literally told that U7 only has one space time but the note says otherwise, so... eh?
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- #94
Like I said before, high 3-A is cherry picking.BlackeJan said:
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I've always hated that phrase cherries were meant to be picked but the phrase cherrie picking is a rather bad thing.Zamasu Chan said:
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Your question was, "mortal universe and otherworld separate space times?" And they said No. However, the Room of Spirit and Time is the only thing mentioned for, 'Separate Space-Time continumm's within Universe's 7 globe" in the description. Considering the Room of Spirit and Time is just an Unquantifiable feat - As it's just the size of the earth. Beerus and them wouldn't get an upgrade as they're destroying one regular size Space-Time, and another Space-Time which is insignificantly smaller.
Them Time-traveling affects the whole timeline, and also affects the other smaller Space-Time. So it can be used to refute that the other Universe are just the same Space-Time.
Them Time-traveling affects the whole timeline, and also affects the other smaller Space-Time. So it can be used to refute that the other Universe are just the same Space-Time.
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But the note says space time continuums, plural.
My_area
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@Peter1129
No it isn't that big its just misintepretion which is making it that big
First of no Kale LSSJ was never on SSB level either Goku SSB just emerged unharmed from LSSJ Kale and wasn't worried one bit so I likely think he was holding back as SSG later proved to stomp Kale and Caulfila together while in tired form anyway and there is no proof that the boost is this big and it never was thats why I always disagreed with this wiki rating but I didn't bother since it would be too much trouble
And before you bring up Jiren no he just stepped in because Kale was getting annoying the same way why Jiren decided to one shot Maji kayo instead of letting Toppo do it or are you telling me that Maji Kayo is at SSB level now
And his SSBK only punched Kefla LSSJ away and she later was shown to one shot SSBK Goku anyway so thats a no
Agreed with second boost,even though them jumping from SSBK level to above first UIO is outrageous and I always viewed it as inconsistency specially where SSB Goku was slightly keeping up with Jiren in ep 123 but then since both got stronger as Jiren mentioned so I guess its fine
No the jump of base Goku from base level to SSBK level is just wrong and fallacious and I am against it totaly as its implied that Golden Frieza was tired and Android 17 barely did anything and even if he did its just straight out wrong as boosts are never this big except Black Goku and Broly boost and nobody mentioned Goku being this strong in base so its just flat out unconsistency
That statement is there but it is directly contradicted by thr movie where Goku claims Broly most likely LSSJ because Gogeta is still part of Goku as possibly above Beerus so Goku is not near GoD level but Goku didn't experience Beerus full power so its iffy
No it isn't that big its just misintepretion which is making it that big
First of no Kale LSSJ was never on SSB level either Goku SSB just emerged unharmed from LSSJ Kale and wasn't worried one bit so I likely think he was holding back as SSG later proved to stomp Kale and Caulfila together while in tired form anyway and there is no proof that the boost is this big and it never was thats why I always disagreed with this wiki rating but I didn't bother since it would be too much trouble
And before you bring up Jiren no he just stepped in because Kale was getting annoying the same way why Jiren decided to one shot Maji kayo instead of letting Toppo do it or are you telling me that Maji Kayo is at SSB level now
And his SSBK only punched Kefla LSSJ away and she later was shown to one shot SSBK Goku anyway so thats a no
Agreed with second boost,even though them jumping from SSBK level to above first UIO is outrageous and I always viewed it as inconsistency specially where SSB Goku was slightly keeping up with Jiren in ep 123 but then since both got stronger as Jiren mentioned so I guess its fine
No the jump of base Goku from base level to SSBK level is just wrong and fallacious and I am against it totaly as its implied that Golden Frieza was tired and Android 17 barely did anything and even if he did its just straight out wrong as boosts are never this big except Black Goku and Broly boost and nobody mentioned Goku being this strong in base so its just flat out unconsistency
That statement is there but it is directly contradicted by thr movie where Goku claims Broly most likely LSSJ because Gogeta is still part of Goku as possibly above Beerus so Goku is not near GoD level but Goku didn't experience Beerus full power so its iffy
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@Giygas3
I remember the idea that all the universes had the same space time was dropped because of lack of evidence
I remember the idea that all the universes had the same space time was dropped because of lack of evidence
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@My area wrote:
Goku was referring to ssj Broly being comparable to Beerus. Lmao do people really think that lssj is like hundreds to possibly thousands of times stronger than a form that stomped two UIS2 level beings? Even Freeza, in a magazine, said that no one in existence is stronger than ssj Broly, this means ssj Broly is stronger than FP Jiren because Freeza never felt LB Jiren's power because he was knocked out. Even Goku was almost pushed to UI when he was fighting stage 3 Ikari Broly.
Goku was referring to ssj Broly being comparable to Beerus. Lmao do people really think that lssj is like hundreds to possibly thousands of times stronger than a form that stomped two UIS2 level beings? Even Freeza, in a magazine, said that no one in existence is stronger than ssj Broly, this means ssj Broly is stronger than FP Jiren because Freeza never felt LB Jiren's power because he was knocked out. Even Goku was almost pushed to UI when he was fighting stage 3 Ikari Broly.
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Stop quoting giant walls of text.
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@Giygas3
Wouldnt the ROSAT have to naturally be within U7 in order for this to be plausible?
Wouldnt the ROSAT have to naturally be within U7 in order for this to be plausible?
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It probably is, the elder kai called it the dimension of time there is no logical way he could have been to earth before being sealed (assuming it had intelligent life over 5 million years ago dragonball time) even if he did he would have called it the room of spirit and time.Xerkser500 said:
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@Xerker500 the ROSAT is considered a separate space time because it has a different flow of time.
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@Zamasu Cha
Err... Didn't realize it was written in plural form. Maybe that should be fixed. (Unless someone else has one more example of different Space-Time.
@Xerkser500
Sure, But the Room of Spirit of Time is a seperate Space-Time that Universe 7 still encompasses. Here's an Analogy: I carry around a suit case, and within this suitcase is a mini dimension with its own space-time (Like the Fantastic Beast, but this time the box does have its own seperate flow of time). The Universe still encompasses this mini dimension, but its flow of time is a bit different. So let's say we have Set A (The Universe), and an element, B (The mini dimension). We draw a huge circle which represents A, and draw it in with Blue. (This shows which part has the same Space-Time.) Then we draw an element B within A, which is black. Now we have some diverges within Set A for Space-Time not being the same everywhere. This is much like the relationship between the Universe and the Room of Spirit and Time.
This is supported by the fact that when Vegeta destroys the Room of Spirit and Time, he always ends back at Kami's Lookout, which shows it's a different Space-Time with its own size that Kami Lookout encompasses. So I think the Box analogy suits best.
The fact that time traveling to another timeline, clearly affects both. No one is going to argue just because time-traveling affects The Room of Spirit and Time, and the regular Universe, that they now have the same Space-Time - They clearly don't. So this argument of all the Universe being affected by time-traveling at once therfore they must have the same Space-Time, is extremely weak.
Err... Didn't realize it was written in plural form. Maybe that should be fixed. (Unless someone else has one more example of different Space-Time.
@Xerkser500
Sure, But the Room of Spirit of Time is a seperate Space-Time that Universe 7 still encompasses. Here's an Analogy: I carry around a suit case, and within this suitcase is a mini dimension with its own space-time (Like the Fantastic Beast, but this time the box does have its own seperate flow of time). The Universe still encompasses this mini dimension, but its flow of time is a bit different. So let's say we have Set A (The Universe), and an element, B (The mini dimension). We draw a huge circle which represents A, and draw it in with Blue. (This shows which part has the same Space-Time.) Then we draw an element B within A, which is black. Now we have some diverges within Set A for Space-Time not being the same everywhere. This is much like the relationship between the Universe and the Room of Spirit and Time.
This is supported by the fact that when Vegeta destroys the Room of Spirit and Time, he always ends back at Kami's Lookout, which shows it's a different Space-Time with its own size that Kami Lookout encompasses. So I think the Box analogy suits best.
The fact that time traveling to another timeline, clearly affects both. No one is going to argue just because time-traveling affects The Room of Spirit and Time, and the regular Universe, that they now have the same Space-Time - They clearly don't. So this argument of all the Universe being affected by time-traveling at once therfore they must have the same Space-Time, is extremely weak.
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@Giygas3 it's still a little hard to grasp, I guess I'll make a discussion thread later.
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So does anyone agree with at least 3-A base and low 2-C GoD Goku?
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Just 3-A for Base to SS3. Low 2-C for SSG to SSBKK.
Also we need to separate Broly Saga from Post-2nd UIS since this only applies to Broly Saga Goku.
Though we should probably wait for the Broly fights in the light novel to be translated. Cause as crazy as it sounds depending on what it says about the fight in the novel Low 2-C Broly Saga SS1 to SS3 Goku is possible.
Also we need to separate Broly Saga from Post-2nd UIS since this only applies to Broly Saga Goku.
Though we should probably wait for the Broly fights in the light novel to be translated. Cause as crazy as it sounds depending on what it says about the fight in the novel Low 2-C Broly Saga SS1 to SS3 Goku is possible.
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Inb4 the Novel states Goku surpassed UIO 2nd or 3rd as a mere Super Saiyan... I take all the L's and blame me if the Novel dictates it's Jiren instead... XD
But regardless all we know is that his SSB form is at least comparable to UIO 3rd... Which IMHO is impressive considering it seems he's really close to ToP FP Jiren at that point (not Limit Breaker.. Just regular Jiren) . That would also imply his SSG form is at least stronger than UIO 2nd or comparable... Which is insane.
But regardless all we know is that his SSB form is at least comparable to UIO 3rd... Which IMHO is impressive considering it seems he's really close to ToP FP Jiren at that point (not Limit Breaker.. Just regular Jiren) . That would also imply his SSG form is at least stronger than UIO 2nd or comparable... Which is insane.
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When will the translations come?
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I mean SSBE Vegeta was initially shown to be comparable to Post-2nd UIS SSBKK Goku in the ToP. Plus we have confirmation that SSBE = SSBKK. Which would mean their SSB forms would be comparable. Post-2nd UIS SSB Goku is stronger than the First UIS. And Vegeta never got another limit breaking boost so his Broly Saga self should still be comparable to his Post-limit breaking self in the ToP.
Which means if Broly Saga Base Goku being comparable to Broly Saga SSG Vegeta is confirmed in the novel than his SS1 form would be stronger than the First UIS since he should be comparable to Broly Saga SSB Vegeta as a SS1 due to SSB being the SS1 form of SSG.
Which means if Broly Saga Base Goku being comparable to Broly Saga SSG Vegeta is confirmed in the novel than his SS1 form would be stronger than the First UIS since he should be comparable to Broly Saga SSB Vegeta as a SS1 due to SSB being the SS1 form of SSG.
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Bump.
Some part of me did think it was referring to merely SSJ Broly when Goku made the comparison to Beerus. Also let us consider Frieza's statements " Strongest in Existence " and the magazine statements stating both SSJ Broly , Legendary Super Saiyan Broly , & Ikari Broly were the strongest opponents Goku's ever fought prior to the Broly Movie. Goku states as such when describing Ikari Broly as well, saying he's " The Strongest Ever " .
That would affect SSB Goku (Broly Movie) considering he fought Ikari Broly and clearly had a edge. The only likely thing is that when he barely went UI he got the boost that he usually got when using Ultra Instinct. That would explain how he manages to hold his own.
Some part of me did think it was referring to merely SSJ Broly when Goku made the comparison to Beerus. Also let us consider Frieza's statements " Strongest in Existence " and the magazine statements stating both SSJ Broly , Legendary Super Saiyan Broly , & Ikari Broly were the strongest opponents Goku's ever fought prior to the Broly Movie. Goku states as such when describing Ikari Broly as well, saying he's " The Strongest Ever " .
That would affect SSB Goku (Broly Movie) considering he fought Ikari Broly and clearly had a edge. The only likely thing is that when he barely went UI he got the boost that he usually got when using Ultra Instinct. That would explain how he manages to hold his own.
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All the top tiers...Risk0608 said:
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and Zen-Oh isn't even universal he's multiversal
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