Gogeta vs Goku

[Kepekley23]

If the universe size calc is accepted won't they scale to the exact same AP anyway? Since Omega's Minus Energy Power Ball was also going to destroy the Kaioshin Realm and the Other World.

 

[Elizhaa]

Yes, Kepekley23, it should be the same AP scale since the verse size is maintained.

 

[Overlord775]

If the universe size calc is accepted won't they scale to the exact same AP anyway? Since Omega's Minus Energy Power Ball was also going to destroy the Kaioshin Realm and the Other World.

No, because the DBS Calc is via inverse cube law because it was going to be an explosion

Meanwhile the DBGT feat was a 3-A planet size ball dispersing small energy bubbles that would travel to each celestial body and destroy them

 

[Kepekley23]

Not really. If Omega Shenron's Minus Energy Power Ball condensed energy was dispersed explosively, it'd destroy the entirety of Universe 7 from its edge in a simillar manner to what was shown in Super.

Logically they need to have the same condensed AP.

 

[Overlord775]

• Square cube law

My bad

 

[Warren_Valion]

They scale to the similar feats.

I'd suggest not using the Godku from the first clash now that we know this because Gogeta did this feat while holding back considerably.

So this fight, Goku and Gogeta are likely comparable in strength. And if speed is equalized, then I'd vote Gogeta based on his superior experience.

 

[Sptflcrw]

Doesn't Goku have like, a 3x AP advantage? And isn't he way faster too?

 

[Warren_Valion]

Doesn't Goku have like, a 3x AP advantage? And isn't he way faster too?

Speed is equalized.

And no.

 

[Huesito88]

Actually it's not =P

though apparently Toei Dbz might get another speed upgrade

 

[Elizhaa]

If speed is not equalized, it is a Stomp and won't get added. Someone else could also always make the thread with Speed Equalized.

 

[Sptflcrw]

No it isn't. The OP literally says it's unequalized.

The feat that is linked in Goku's profile says that Goku and Beerus both equally contributed to a 5x baseline 3-A feat. Meanwhile Gogeta scales to baseline 3-A AP.

 

[Warren_Valion]

You're right, I made a mistake. I'm sorry.

However, you never read what was in the thread.

Gogeta is not baseline, he also scales to a feat that is five times baseline 3-A as well even when holding back considerably.

 

[Chartate101]

He's baseline DB 3-A

 

[Sptflcrw]

You're right, I made a mistake. I'm sorry.
However, you never read what was in the thread.

Gogeta is not baseline, he also scales to a feat that is five times baseline 3-A as well even when holding back considerably.

Is there a calc or something I can see? It's not on their profiles.

 

[Peter1129]

BoG SSG Goku isn't 5x baseline 3-A. He's actually only 2x baseline since he only scales to half the yield of the destroyed the universe from the edge calc that's actually 4x baseline 3-A and not 5x baseline 3-A.

Also Gogeta stomped Omega Shenron who has 3-A durability so he's the one that has the AP advantage right now.

 

[Warren_Valion]

Gogeta causally purified the Negative Karma ball from Omega Shenron which would have destroyed the entirety of Universe 7, as the Supreme Kai's even state that their realm will be destroyed as well.

The Dragon Ball universe is considerably larger than our own, it is about 2.2-2.5 larger.

Earth in Dragon Ball is at the edge of the universe, and using Inverse Square Law we get that destroying the entirety of Universe 7 from Earth means that you have an AP value of 5x times baseline 3-A.

 

[Warren_Valion]

Goku grew stronger in that fight after the punch clash with Beerus.

 

[Peter1129]

That's not SSG Goku though. That's SS1 and Base Goku after absorbing SSG. And this match is just using SSG Goku who's only 2x baseline.

 

[Sptflcrw]

BoG SSG Goku isn't 5x baseline 3-A. He's actually only 2x baseline since he only scales to half the yield of the destroyed the universe from the edge calc that's actually 4x baseline 3-A and not 5x baseline 3-A.
Also Gogeta stomped Omega Shenron who has 3-A durability so he's the one that has the AP advantage right now.

That's... literally what I said. He contributed to half of a 5x baseline feat.

No, that's not how that works. Negative Energy Ball is baseline, as far as I remember. Gogeta stopped it. Therefore, Gogeta is baseline. The only reason Omega Shenron has 3-A durability is because he survived a full power attack from Gogeta.

 

[Peter1129]

By the way it's actually 4x baseline 3-A and not 5x baseline 3-A. 1.126x10^93 divided by 2.825x10^92 is actually 3.986x or 4x 3-A. So BoG SSG Goku is roughly 2x baseline 3-A.

I'm not really sure how to deal with that durability scaling stuff but even than SS4 Gogeta effortlessly nullified a baseline 3-A attack so he's technically above baseline 3-A by quite a bit.

 

[Sptflcrw]

No it isn't. Make a CRT, change the profile. Until then, it's as the profile says.

Effortlessly? Dude, he's yelling and straining himself as it's happening. Clearly not effortless. He's baseline, if not slightly above baseline.

 

[Elizhaa]

No it isn't. Make a CRT, change the profile. Until then, it's as the profile says.
Effortlessly? Dude, he's yelling and straining himself as it's happening. Clearly not effortless. He's baseline, if not slightly above baseline.

He may or may not have powerup but He stop the blast with just a kick and almost fodderize Omega Shenron with two his strongest ki blast.

Saying, he strained himself is the wrong point here.

 

[Warren_Valion]

No it isn't. Make a CRT, change the profile. Until then, it's as the profile says.
Effortlessly? Dude, he's yelling and straining himself as it's happening. Clearly not effortless. He's baseline, if not slightly above baseline.

He was holding back the entire time, that was a plot point in the episode.

He only started to get serious after he nullified the ball, and started Big Bang Kamehamehaing Omega.

 

[Peter1129]

No it isn't. Make a CRT, change the profile. Until then, it's as the profile says.

Effortlessly? Dude, he's yelling and straining himself as it's happening. Clearly not effortless. He's baseline, if not slightly above baseline.

It is when Assaltwaffle made the destroying the universe from the edge calcs he messed up the numbers a bit the final result is only 4x baseline 3-A not 5x baseline 3-A.

Seemed pretty effotless to me. He just powered up a bit and completely purified a baseline 3-A attack with one kick. After that he went on to nearly one shot Omega Shenron with a single Big Bang Kamehameha.

 

[AKM sama]

@Peter You may want to ask Assalt about that. When he made the calc I also told him that I thought it would be 4x but his result is 5x.

If the universe size is updated, Goku's increase will be more than Gogeta's because Goku scales to an attack that can destroy the universe from its edge through an omnidirectional blast (inverse square law), while Gogeta scales to an attack that has baseline (according to DB universe) attack potency and only destroys the universe by emitting small pockets of energy which destroy every celestial body. It doesn't depend on the position of the blast.

From the accepted blog:

• The energy required to destroy the universe is 1,000,000,000 units of energy.
• The Minus Ball has a condensed power source of 1,000,000,000 units.
• The energy required to destroy a star is 0.1 units.
• The Minus Ball radiates 0.1 units of negative energy onto other worlds, lowering its original condensed power. By the time all 1,000,000,000 units have been spent, the entire universe will have already been destroyed.

 

[AKM sama]

Anyway, I suggest we wait for the DB universe size to be accepted/rejected before remaking this thread. As of now, this is a stomp.

 

[Huesito88]

Then this thread is on hold for now =P

 

[Elizhaa]

Huesito88, it is a stomp so since speed is unequalized and since the speed remains the same then no point to be debating in this thread any longer =P

 

[Huesito88]

There is a new speed feat that'd put everyone above Oob at the 56 quadrillion range, so not really.

It's just a matter of time =P

 

[AKM sama]

So should we close this thread?

 

[Kepekley23]

Probably.