Godzillas Downgrade

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Just clarifying some details; Heat feats are 100% applicable for Attack Potency; however, it has been agreed that if an attack is mostly heat with little to no force; then it shouldn't fully scale to a character's durability. Since IRL, getting a summer cold is 200 kilojoules worth of heat resistance, but 200 kilojoules of blunt force trauma is overkill from a speeding car. But yes, we pretty much should have a thread about this at some point but not ready to tackle that yet. There's also general cases where if universal power sources are involved; they tend to be pretty interchangeable yes. And Ki Blasts especially typically are a combination of both heat and blunt force trauma.

In Godzilla's case; his Atomic Breath appears to be just like a Nuclear Warhead; it's considerably excellent in both categories. I really thing this video should showcase that Atomic Breath has a lot of blunt force trauma to it.

 

[Gallavant]

Very important. "Heat rays" are already useless and abandoned, if you believe this as a possible demonstration towards magnifying temperatures then Godzillaverse outclassed that form of attack since the earliest era.

 

[Armorchompy]

Just because a heat ray isn't strong enough to do damage doesn't mean the entire concept of them is outdated, especially since most Kaiju don't exactly get to choose their natural weaponry. Besides, is Godzilla really a single continuity?

 

[Gallavant]

Just because a heat ray isn't strong enough to do damage doesn't mean the entire concept of them is outdated, especially since most Kaiju don't exactly get to choose their natural weaponry. Besides, is Godzilla really a single continuity?

Masers are everywhere in Godzilla because this weapon was not a working method of attack.

 

[Armorchompy]

Yes, because human technology cannot reach those levels. But a monster's beam doesn't have the same restrictions.

 

[Ionliosite]

Besides, is Godzilla really a single continuity?

No. The huge majority of films (and by that I mean all but Reiwa, MonsterVerse, Anime and TriStar) accept the original movie as canon and then go from there. There are multiple films that share continuity, like the Showa and Heisei series, but those two aren't canon to each other.

 

[Armorchompy]

No. The huge majority of films (and by that I mean all but Reiwa, MonsterVerse, Anime and TriStar) accept the original movie as canon and then go from there. There are multiple films that share continuity, like the Showa and Heisei series, but those two aren't canon to each other.

Exactly

 

[Gallavant]

Yes, because human technology cannot reach those levels. But a monster's beam doesn't have the same restrictions.

Regular heat is inapplicable to fighting a kaiju and that is all.

 

[Armorchompy]

??? that's like saying that just because someone's bulletproof they're immune to all ballistical weaponry.

 

[Gallavant]

??? that's like saying that just because someone's bulletproof they're immune to all ballistical weaponry.

Missing context:

The tanks make explosions.
The masers make explosions.
The Heat Ray? Fire.

 

[Armorchompy]

Even if that was the case, and it's not, hilariously so, that'd apply to only one canon.

 

[Armorchompy]

Anyway, being able to resist any man-made heat weapon isn't the same as being able to resist any heat attack, even within a verse. All one would need is higher heat than that weapon.

 

[Gallavant]

All heat attacks are power-based because the Atomic Heat Ray Gun was not.

 

[Armorchompy]

Or maybe they're a bit stronger. I don't even think Godzilla's breath is heat only, and as the wiki is rn it doesn't matter, but your argument makes no sense.

 

[Gallavant]

I'm killing metas

 

[Gallavant]

Even if that was the case, and it's not, hilariously so, that'd apply to only one canon.

I did not bring up Showa. My attempt makes no sense because its inclusive to this thread's ideas.

 

[Armorchompy]

Nothing you're saying makes sense. You've presented no actual proof of whatever you're trying to argue for, for what I'm concerned.

 

[SuperGodzilla_Kaiju_King]

Because it’s absolute zero?
Dude unless I’m missing something I’m assuming this freezes you as the main attack method which doesn’t scale to regular durability

Mothra literally got vaped there, considering this’s an atomic breath and we see him vape shit I think it’s safe to say it’s heat based

Okay a lot to unpack here
Second and third scans need calcs to account for surface area and distance since that and inverse square law could massively drop how impressive the feats are
Fourth scan I don’t really get what it tries to prove, the scientist is speculating there
Fifth is what, how is the statement proving anything, he’s just saying that he based the characteristics of Godzilla of a nuke not literally basing his raw power from a nuke
Honestly you’d need to reach far to assume he means it like that

It’s heat man, it ain’t gonna scale to his physical durability no matter how much you gonna claim it does
Plus you need to account for surface area there
Also Megagurius just heat resistance, not that good one but still has it
The jumping high could be calced to get stats tho

Clearly you're either missing something or just being stupid, as the machinery and atomic breath didn't get negged instantly by it. Unless you're going to say radiation resists durability negation. Somehow.

She literally survived another blast before and Ghidorah survived several. The fact she's ALREADY damaged is not an anti-feat. It's shown LITERALLY creating an explosion on screen, are you kidding me?

No, because if you're not blatantly disingenuous, having a nuclear explosion detonate on you or in your immediate vicinity would get you most of the explosive energy. Fourth is the film, so no "uh only external sources" like this wiki loves to try pulling, and it's proven to be correct. Why is speculation based on evidence wrong? Fifth is as blatant as it gets, what the Hell's so hard to understand about it? He's EQUAL to an atomic bomb.

The heat HE produced that is just the EXTRA energy from him charging up his attack? Why would that NOT scale to if not BELOW his actual AP? The AP literally returned to him and he took with basically no damage? How does surface area matter when it was condensed into an area smaller than himself?

This whole 'heat resistance' argument is absolutely idiotic. The beam vaporizes water, causes explosions even nuke sized ones in all examples here, he takes the attack so his durability upscales, and heat alone doesn't explain the EXPLOSIONS the atomic breath causes.
None of these beams even have confirmed temperatures so the argument is EXTRA stupid.

 

[SuperGodzilla_Kaiju_King]

I would be kinder about this but not only is the premise utterly stupid, but it's ignoring posted evidence and is frankly weird.
The AZC thing is probably the only valid thing to list as hacks but I'm pretty sure I can't cause a nuclear mushroom cloud by just burning something with a flame thrower unless it, you know, EXPLODES.

 

[Tllmbrg]

Clearly you're either missing something or just being stupid, as the machinery and atomic breath didn't get negged instantly by it. Unless you're going to say radiation resists durability negation. Somehow.

I'm confused to what this refers so no comment right now

She literally survived another blast before and Ghidorah survived several. The fact she's ALREADY damaged is not an anti-feat. It's shown LITERALLY creating an explosion on screen, are you kidding me?

Scans

No, because if you're not blatantly disingenuous, having a nuclear explosion detonate on you or in your immediate vicinity would get you most of the explosive energy. Fourth is the film, so no "uh only external sources" like this wiki loves to try pulling, and it's proven to be correct. Why is speculation based on evidence wrong? Fifth is as blatant as it gets, what the Hell's so hard to understand about it? He's EQUAL to an atomic bomb.

No you still need it called because surface area and distance matter a lot, since he's not taking the full force when you account for them
When did I argue over external sources what, also I'm still confused about what the movie explanation by the scientist suppose to prove
Bro the statement by the director is literally the weakest evidence here, he's clearly talking metaphorically since he wanted the horror of a nuke
If he wanted to say that Godzilla is strong as a nuke he'd just say it, saying Godzilla's characteristics are that of a nuke is flowery language that can mean a lot of things besides raw strength which are way more likely here

The AZC thing is probably the only valid thing to list as hacks but I'm pretty sure I can't cause a nuclear mushroom cloud by just burning something with a flame thrower unless it, you know, EXPLODES.

What?
How does an AZ attack burn shit what?

 

[Tllmbrg]

The heat HE produced that is just the EXTRA energy from him charging up his attack? Why would that NOT scale to if not BELOW his actual AP? The AP literally returned to him and he took with basically no damage? How does surface area matter when it was condensed into an area smaller than himself?

No?
How'd the heat be extra energy, it'd be a part of the total energy tf, also okay surface area might not matter here

This whole 'heat resistance' argument is absolutely idiotic. The beam vaporizes water, causes explosions even nuke sized ones in all examples here, he takes the attack so his durability upscales, and heat alone doesn't explain the EXPLOSIONS the atomic breath causes.
None of these beams even have confirmed temperatures so the argument is EXTRA stupid.

To which Godzilla this refers?

 

[Yar_R_agi_7k]

ı agree

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

I largely agree with Tllmbrg

 

[KLOL506]

Just clarifying some details; Heat feats are 100% applicable for Attack Potency; however, it has been agreed that if an attack is mostly heat with little to no force; then it shouldn't fully scale to a character's durability. Since IRL, getting a summer cold is 200 kilojoules worth of heat resistance, but 200 kilojoules of blunt force trauma is overkill from a speeding car. But yes, we pretty much should have a thread about this at some point but not ready to tackle that yet. There's also general cases where if universal power sources are involved; they tend to be pretty interchangeable yes. And Ki Blasts especially typically are a combination of both heat and blunt force trauma.

In Godzilla's case; his Atomic Breath appears to be just like a Nuclear Warhead; it's considerably excellent in both categories. I really thing this video should showcase that Atomic Breath has a lot of blunt force trauma to it.

This. Also we did already conclude that heat feats that show tremendous blunt force trauma (Like explosions, fireball blasts that damage roads and the like, and ki blasts like in Dragon Ball and especially in the case of Godzilla's atomic breath) would be fine to scale to normal dura and striking strength in full.

I can agree with the water boiled thing being inapplicable, but Atomic Breath being a heat-only attack is absolutely wrong given the tremendous amounts of evidence they have for sheer blunt force destruction of cities and skyscrapers and the tendency to generate big booms (SuperGodzilla and DDM can tell you more). Plus, the Atomic Breath has been, to my knowledge, shown to be a concentrated attack into a single small spot in almost every single Godzilla media that exists.

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

This. Also we did already conclude that heat feats that show tremendous blunt force trauma (Like explosions, fireball blasts that damage roads and the like, and ki blasts like in Dragon Ball and especially in the case of Godzilla's atomic breath) would be fine to scale to normal dura and striking strength in full.

I can agree with the water boiled thing being inapplicable, but Atomic Breath being a heat-only attack is absolutely wrong given the tremendous amounts of evidence they have for sheer blunt force destruction of cities and skyscrapers and the tendency to generate big booms (SuperGodzilla and DDM can tell you more). Plus, the Atomic Breath has been, to my knowledge, shown to be a concentrated attack into a single small spot in almost every single Godzilla media that exists.

I agree with KLOL506 and Darkdragonmedeus.

I think de should move to another point of the thread.

I also agree water boiling is not a City level durability feat.... but I think Godzilla posted scans where was explained Original Godzilla to have survived nuclear weapons prior the film events.

 

[Tllmbrg]

And I explained why it all needs calcs

 

[Tllmbrg]

Plus we should remember that the OG film came in 1954 so the nukes we're talking about are closer to Fat Boy rather then modern nukes so this calcs could end way lower then even 7-C

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

And I explained why it all needs calcs

I gave you a link to the calc days ago dude.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Apex_PredatorX/How_strong_Godzilla_%2754_is

It needs more staff imput.

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

Plus we should remember that the OG film came in 1954 so the nukes we're talking about are closer to Fat Boy rather then modern nukes so this calcs could end way lower then even 7-C

If I remember correctly some databooks mentioned Godzilla survived a H-Bomb.

Due the date of the movie, the closest one is Ivy Mike detonated in 1952.

 

[SuperGodzilla_Kaiju_King]

No?
How'd the heat be extra energy, it'd be a part of the total energy tf, also okay surface area might not matter here


To which Godzilla this refers?

Heat comprises roughly only 5 to 10% of the energy released by an explosion (say a nuke)

Mostly GMK, who has an atomic bomb-like explosion feat very early in the film that's been posted now blatantly.
Calc for it got 7-C.

 

[Cyberblader90]

can i get a summary of the current points

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

Missing context:

The tanks make explosions.
The masers make explosions.
The Heat Ray? Fire.

Gallavant can you please answer the question of Spinosaurus75Dinosaurfan in your calc?

So we can finally use it

Thanks in advance

 

[SuperGodzilla_Kaiju_King]

I'm confused to what this refers so no comment right now

Scans

No you still need it called because surface area and distance matter a lot, since he's not taking the full force when you account for them
When did I argue over external sources what, also I'm still confused about what the movie explanation by the scientist suppose to prove
Bro the statement by the director is literally the weakest evidence here, he's clearly talking metaphorically since he wanted the horror of a nuke
If he wanted to say that Godzilla is strong as a nuke he'd just say it, saying Godzilla's characteristics are that of a nuke is flowery language that can mean a lot of things besides raw strength which are way more likely here

What?
How does an AZ attack burn shit what?

Scans?
Here, here, here and here for her and him. He also has a few more.

Immediate vicinity implies it's right next to him, not very far away. This would imply either VERY close OR direct bombing.
Should it need to be calced, sure, but just saying it doesn't matter because 'heat tho' is illogical.
How? It states VERBATIM a normal animal would die to a single canonball, while if this monster was EQUAL to a NUCLEAR BOMB, then we (humanity) wouldn't know what to do. Can you.....prove it's metaphorical? That's literally an assumption.

Not what I said.
I said the 'heat tho' arguments are stupid. AZC as hacks is whatever.

 

[Tllmbrg]

Scans?
Here, here, here and here for her and him. He also has a few more.

Okay I’ll change my statement then
Both Mothra and King Ghidora should not scale to the atomic breath physically durability wise because when either of them gets hit with it head on they get knocked out or vaped out like Mothra in the end

Immediate vicinity implies it's right next to him, not very far away. This would imply either VERY close OR direct bombing.
Should it need to be calced, sure, but just saying it doesn't matter because 'heat tho' is illogical.
How? It states VERBATIM a normal animal would die to a single canonball, while if this monster was EQUAL to a NUCLEAR BOMB, then we (humanity) wouldn't know what to do. Can you.....prove it's metaphorical? That's literally an assumption.

I never argued it for the nukes themselves (Heat shit), also the nuke feats still need to be calced because that shit can end below 7-C
Also again yes it’s metaphorical, not my problem you’re taking a statement like this too literally

 

[TyranoDoom30]

GMK cant be lower than 7-B, When he casaully destroys towns with one blast of a atomic breath and superior to the Original Godzilla who has been compared to a real atomic bomb

 

[SuperGodzilla_Kaiju_King]

Okay I’ll change my statement then
Both Mothra and King Ghidora should not scale to the atomic breath physically durability wise because when either of them gets hit with it head on they get knocked out or vaped out like Mothra in the end

I never argued it for the nukes themselves (Heat shit), also the nuke feats still need to be calced because that shit can end below 7-C
Also again yes it’s metaphorical, not my problem you’re taking a statement like this too literally

It'd be their peak as its their limit.

Literally calcs were accepted and ON THE PAGE and then got taken off.
Prove that. It's your problem when you're claiming that with zero evidence and it's utterly stupid to then go "uh it's not my fault" when IT IS.

 

[Tllmbrg]

It'd be their peak as its their limit.

Humans can under certain conditions can endure 9-B attacks, so no this would scale to them as Godzilla literally casually vaped Mother there as far as I can see, maybe Ghidora would but Mother hell nah

Literally calcs were accepted and ON THE PAGE and then got taken off.
Prove that. It's your problem when you're claiming that with zero evidence and it's utterly stupid to then go "uh it's not my fault" when IT IS.

Bro get those nuke feats calced, again they're not as straight forward as you make them considering how strong nukes were at the time and how surface area and distance effects it
Also who goes in this round about way to say someone is nuke level, characteristics of a nuke is a statement on how Godzilla as an enemy is there to showcase the horror of nuclear war due to the massive destruction and radiation it causes, it does not mean he's literally strong as a nuke or he'd say it

 

[SuperGodzilla_Kaiju_King]

Humans can under certain conditions can endure 9-B attacks, so no this would scale to them as Godzilla literally casually vaped Mother there as far as I can see, maybe Ghidora would but Mother hell nah

Bro get those nuke feats calced, again they're not as straight forward as you make them considering how strong nukes were at the time and how surface area and distance effects it
Also who goes in this round about way to say someone is nuke level, characteristics of a nuke is a statement on how Godzilla as an enemy is there to showcase the horror of nuclear war due to the massive destruction and radiation it causes, it does not mean he's literally strong as a nuke or he'd say it

Ghidorah was only KOed by multiple blasts and then got more powerful. Should scale.

They were, and were accepted. I don't know who took them off, but they were literally already accepted.
That's an interpretation with literally no evidence. Mine is simple and straightforward. Occam's Razor.

 

[Tllmbrg]

Ghidorah was only KOed by multiple blasts and then got more powerful. Should scale.

Okay so only Ghidora downscales

They were, and were accepted. I don't know who took them off, but they were literally already accepted.
That's an interpretation with literally no evidence. Mine is simple and straightforward. Occam's Razor.

Link the calc then
Your interpretation is not in fact that
“If he were equal to a nuke", key word were aka he's not saying he's equal to a nuclear bomb
And again characteristics does not mean strength, the clear way this relates to Godzilla is that he's radioactive and has radiation based powers
Now please stop using this statement

 

[SuperGodzilla_Kaiju_King]

Okay so only Ghidora downscales

Link the calc then
Your interpretation is not in fact that
“If he were equal to a nuke", key word were aka he's not saying he's equal to a nuclear bomb
And again characteristics does not mean strength, the clear way this relates to Godzilla is that he's radioactive and has radiation based powers
Now please stop using this statement

Still scales. Mothra does too, took a blast and survived despite being hit multiple times beforehand.

How you actually read and stop trying to play these stupid semantics games with me? It's utterly stupid to assume anything else but what it says pretty straightforward. If the monster was any random animal, normal weapons could kill it. But if it were equal to a nuclear bomb, there's not much that can be done about it.
Stop being stupid, in no way, shape or form does it say "well he's kinda like a nuke". It says he's equal. To a nuclear bomb. You're either stupid or a dishonest jackass to try interpreting this any other way. Like you're looking for ANY reason, valid or not, to try avoiding it. It's like every couple of days when I log on, you find some new stupid excuse.