God of War: Greek Macrocosm CRT

[chosen]

Seems fine

 

[Fixxed]

Already more than 5 staff that agree

Soo... we just have to wait 48hours now, right???

 

[SYPHe5D]

Already more than 5 staff that agree

Soo... we just have to wait 48hours now, right???

More or less yeah.

 

[KLOL506]

Already more than 5 staff that agree

Soo... we just have to wait 48hours now, right???

25 hours and 11 minutes actually.

 

[Planck69]

Small update to the CRT. Not about the cosmology but who scales to the total range.

Basically, it's been pointed out to me that the Primordials would scale in terms of range due to being Type 1 concepts that extend across all of reality.

And I suppose Fear Zeus and Power of Hope Kratos, since they embody or in the former's case, literally are concepts that supersede even the Primordials.

Anyone with issues with this can feel free to point them out to me.

@Elizhaa @Maverick_Zero_X @KingTempest @Dereck03 @Theglassman12

Any concerns?

 

[Vietthai96]

Basically, it's been pointed out to me that the Primordials would scale in terms of range due to being Type 1 concepts that extend across all of reality.

And I suppose Fear Zeus and Power of Hope Kratos, since they embody or in the farmer's case, literally are concepts that supersede even the Primordials.

Anyone with issues with this can feel free to point them out to me.

Stumble upon this first hand, so anyway i agree with this, sound logical

 

[KLOL506]

Yeah I got no issues either, in fact, this basically finally lets me find the issue of not letting the Primordials, Great Evils and Hope scale to it even when they very clearly should given their nature as Type 1 Concepts and how they majorly shaped and affected Reality and that serves as a major plot point.

 

[KingTempest]

Small update to the CRT. Not about the cosmology but who scales to the total range.

Basically, it's been pointed out to me that the Primordials would scale in terms of range due to being Type 1 concepts that extend across all of reality.

And I suppose Fear Zeus and Power of Hope Kratos, since they embody or in the former's case, literally are concepts that supersede even the Primordials.

Anyone with issues with this can feel free to point them out to me.

@Elizhaa @Maverick_Zero_X @KingTempest @Dereck03 @Theglassman12

Any concerns?

Nah this cool

 

[KLOL506]

Small update to the CRT. Not about the cosmology but who scales to the total range.

Basically, it's been pointed out to me that the Primordials would scale in terms of range due to being Type 1 concepts that extend across all of reality.

And I suppose Fear Zeus and Power of Hope Kratos, since they embody or in the former's case, literally are concepts that supersede even the Primordials.

Anyone with issues with this can feel free to point them out to me.

@Elizhaa @Maverick_Zero_X @KingTempest @Dereck03 @Theglassman12

Any concerns?

I should also note that this would grant Base Zeus and Athena Low Complex Multiversal range via Summoning, since they can summon the Great Evils and Hope respectively and seal them off inside Pandora's Box.

@Elizhaa @KingTempest @Theglassman12 @Dereck03 @Maverick_Zero_X No issues here I presume?

 

[ZoroNotZolo]

Small update to the CRT. Not about the cosmology but who scales to the total range.

Basically, it's been pointed out to me that the Primordials would scale in terms of range due to being Type 1 concepts that extend across all of reality.

And I suppose Fear Zeus and Power of Hope Kratos, since they embody or in the former's case, literally are concepts that supersede even the Primordials.

Anyone with issues with this can feel free to point them out to me.

I agree with the OP and the post above.

 

[KingTempest]

@KingTempest

If you summon me one more damn time

 

[Vietthai96]

Should have strip @KLOL506 his tagging ability

 

[Elizhaa]

I should also note that this would grant Base Zeus and Athena Low Complex Multiversal range via Summoning, since they can summon the Great Evils and Hope respectively and seal them off inside Pandora's Box.

@Elizhaa @KingTempest @Theglassman12 @Dereck03 @Maverick_Zero_X No issues here I presume?

I guess this is fine.

 

[Dereck03]

I should also note that this would grant Base Zeus and Athena Low Complex Multiversal range via Summoning, since they can summon the Great Evils and Hope respectively and seal them off inside Pandora's Box.

@Elizhaa @KingTempest @Theglassman12 @Dereck03 @Maverick_Zero_X No issues here I presume?

Ping worked ٩( ᐛ )و

Anyway, no issues with me either.

 

[Tanin_iver]

No, the realms are not the limit of the World Pillar. All of Creation beyond the realms cease to exist AKA the entire hypertimeline would collapse and revert to Chaos. The realms constitute as part of the Greek World, which in turn is part of the Greek Pantheon and its creation stories.

Even before this CRT back in the Tier 2 days we had already accepted with proof that nuking the World Pillar would cause all of space and time to cease to exist as they fall under the "creation" umbrella which falls under the Pantheon's contents and creation stories.

All of creation or time ceasing to exist or collapsing to chaos doesn't mean the entire hypertimeline is nuked. Its no different than different flows of time or stopped time, it is just a set of event in the timeline but they don't matter in the overall existence of the timeline.

Coming back to the World Pillar, it is still only carrying the 4D space-times (3 spatial + 1 Temporal dimension) of the multiple realms which are Tier 2 objects. So holding the weight of a Tier 2 object is still Tier 2. Unless you can prove that the World Pillar is carrying the Hypertimeline which is a 5D(3 spatial + 2 Temporal dimensions), it will still be just a 2-C structure.

Basically, it's been pointed out to me that the Primordials would scale in terms of range due to being Type 1 concepts that extend across all of reality.

And I suppose Fear Zeus and Power of Hope Kratos, since they embody or in the former's case, literally are concepts that supersede even the Primordials.

Well do they have feats of affecting the whole of a Low 1-C realm or the hypertimeline. Because being a Type 1 Concept will just make it independent from the plane of reality and instead make it immune to nuking the plane of existence but not necessarily give it range unless the range is combat applicable in some form with Hax or AoE attacks.

I should also note that this would grant Base Zeus and Athena Low Complex Multiversal range via Summoning, since they can summon the Great Evils and Hope respectively and seal them off inside Pandora's Box.

I think Low 1-C through summoning is fine.

 

[Planck69]

All of creation or time ceasing to exist or collapsing to chaos doesn't mean the entire hypertimeline is nuked. Its no different than different flows of time or stopped time, it is just a set of event in the timeline but they don't matter in the overall existence of the timeline.

I'm fairly sure destroying all of space and time would mean... well, all of space and time. No different than "destroying all of creation and time" in the context of a regular space-time continuum is Low 2-C moreso than 3-A.

Coming back to the World Pillar, it is still only carrying the 4D space-times (3 spatial + 1 Temporal dimension) of the multiple realms which are Tier 2 objects. So holding the weight of a Tier 2 object is still Tier 2. Unless you can prove that the World Pillar is carrying the Hypertimeline which is a 5D(3 spatial + 2 Temporal dimensions), it will still be just a 2-C structure.

The World Pillar has its tier because it sustains the Greek World's existence, not just specifically cause of the lifting strength feat of holding up the primordial realms.

Well do they have feats of affecting the whole of a Low 1-C realm or the hypertimeline. Because being a Type 1 Concept will just make it independent from the plane of reality and instead make it immune to nuking the plane of existence but not necessarily give it range unless the range is combat applicable in some form with Hax or AoE attacks.

Type 1 concepts as per the page govern the whole of their reality, which is the core of why the range upgrade is suggested.

I think Low 1-C through summoning is fine.

Aite.

 

[Tanin_iver]

I'm fairly sure destroying all of space and time would mean... well, all of space and time. No different than "destroying all of creation and time" in the context of a regular space-time continuum is Low 2-C moreso than 3-A.

Well the creation (Greek World) here is 2-C (space-times of the realms), no. Due to 6 hypertimelines, there will be 6 versions of these 2-C (4D) creations which are governed by the hypertimeline which is Low 1-C (5D) which only the Sisters of Fates currently have feats to scale.

The World Pillar has its tier because it sustains the Greek World's existence, not just specifically cause of the lifting strength feat of holding up the primordial realms.

In conjunction with what I said above wouldn't it mean just sustaining Tier 2 structures tho, since the Tier 2 structures are space-time themselves it will affect time but on a smaller scale that is with the temporal dimension on the level of the realms (3+1D) and not the temporal dimension (3+2D) that the Sisters govern.

Type 1 concepts as per the page govern the whole of their reality, which is the core of why the range upgrade is suggested.

Yes, but that doesn't necessarily give range, only that the concept can govern the whole reality and the concept's independence from the reality.

Range is a measurement that refers to how far that the attacks or abilities of a certain character, weapon, or otherwise, can efficiently reach on their/its own.

Low Complex Multiversal: Attacks and abilities that are able to reach throughout 5-dimensional to 6-dimensional space.

As you can see range is pretty specifically for Attacks and abilities.

 

[KLOL506]

Well the creation (Greek World) here is 2-C (space-times of the realms), no.

No, each Greek World here would be Low 1-C AKA a hypertimeline as per the OP, as it is not limited to the realms alone, never has been. It includes the hypertimeline aspect (3+2D) too, hence, "alternate time dimensions". There would be 6 other such alternate hypertimelines alongside the main one.

Due to 6 hypertimelines, there will be 6 versions of these 2-C (4D) creations which are governed by the hypertimeline which is Low 1-C (5D) which only the Sisters of Fates currently have feats to scale.

Nope, again, each of these hypertimelines will be Low 1-C, each hypertimeline or "Greek World" being held up by the World Pillar. Take the World Pillar out, and that "Greek World" collapses and ceases to exist. The 2-C creations are just a small subset of the "Greek World", that is by no means the limit.

In conjunction with what I said above wouldn't it mean just sustaining Tier 2 structures tho, since the Tier 2 structures are space-time themselves it will affect time but on a smaller scale that is with the temporal dimension on the level of the realms (3+1D) and not the temporal dimension (3+2D) that the Sisters govern.

Nope, as the World Pillar's scope is not limited to said realms, but the Greek World itself, which is far bigger in scope. Each Greek World would be 3+2D, and there would be 6 more of them. The realms are merely subsets of said Greek World.

Yes, but that doesn't necessarily give range, only that the concept can govern the whole reality and the concept's independence from the reality.

In this case it does because we have WoG confirmation that they affected the course of reality in a major way and they were affecting everything in their path.

As you can see range is pretty specifically for Attacks and abilities.

The Great Evils and Hope go out of their way to destroy everything in their path, whether it be actively or passively. They affect the entire Greek World, not just the realms within.

 

[Tanin_iver]

In this case it does because we have WoG confirmation that they affected the course of reality in a major way and was affecting everything in its path.

The Great Evils and Hope go out of their way to destroy everything in their path, whether it be actively or passively.

That is exactly what Concept Manip mean by affecting all of reality. I am asking for attacks and abilities of the Characters which is what actually gives range.

No, each Greek World here would be Low 1-C AKA a hypertimeline as per the OP. There would be 6 other alternate hypertimelines.

Nope, as the World Pillar's scope is not limited to said realms, but the Greek World itself. Each Greek World would be 3+2D, and there would be 6 more of them. The realms are merely subsets of said Greek World.

The OP only shows the Sisters of Fate affecting the hypertimeline that is 3+2D. Where is the Greek World affecting two time dimensions?
I can see the Greek World composed of the realms being space-times and the space between the realms which is insignificant 5D space and a time dimension that governs them all. THat is only one time dimension, which in total is 3+1D or 4D which is only 2-C.

 

[KLOL506]

That is exactly what Concept Manip mean by affecting all of reality. I am asking for attacks and abilities of the Characters which is what actually gives range.

Would the Great Evils and the Primordials being able to govern and shape reality not fall under the abilities part? This is just getting semantical at this stage.

Where is the Greek World affecting two time dimensions.

Each Greek World is already two time dimensions, we've gone over this multiple times.

I can see the Greek World composed of the realms being space-times and the space between the realms which is insignificant 5D space and a time dimension that governs them all. THat is only one time dimension, which in total is 3+1D or 4D which is only 2-C.

Once again, that is not the Greek World's limit, there is also the higher time dimension that embeds the 4D realms, which is also part of the Greek World.

 

[Tanin_iver]

Would the Great Evils and the Primordials being able to govern and shape reality not fall under the abilities part? This is just getting semantical at this stage.

Well the effects of the concept would, like feeling fear across the reality, that's what it means in concept manip by governing all reality.
But by attacks and abilities it means can the characters have any combat applicable ones like AoE attacks or something like that.

Each Greek World is already two time dimensions, we've gone over this multiple times.

Once again, that is not the Greek World's limit, there is also the higher time dimension that embeds the 4D realms, which is also part of the Greek World.

Proof for this specific claim that the Greek World is the hypertimeline when the hypertimelines are supposed to be the creations of the sisters of Fate that governs the Greek Worlds.
This is like saying if a character A is stated to lift a High 3-A structure, and another character B like controls the timeline in which the structure and the character A exists which would be a Low 2-C structure. Now u are suddenly saying that the character A scales to lifting the timeline as well which is a Low 2-C structure without proving that the structure is also the timeline.
So could you elaborate why the structure is also the timeline itself now.

 

[KLOL506]

Well the effects of the concept would, like feeling fear across the reality, that's what it means in concept manip by governing all reality.
But by attacks and abilities it means can the characters have any combat applicable ones like AoE attacks or something like that.


Proof for this specific claim that the Greek World is the hypertimeline when the hypertimelines are supposed to be the creations of the sisters of Fate that governs the Greek Worlds.
This is like saying if a character A is stated to lift a High 3-A structure, and another character B like controls the timeline in which the structure and the character A exists which would be a Low 2-C structure. Now u are suddenly saying that the character A scales to lifting the timeline as well which is a Low 2-C structure without proving that the structure is also the timeline.
So could you elaborate why the structure is also the timeline itself now.

The Mainline Greek World here is synonymized numerous times as "this world, this time".

Making the worlds behind the mirrors as "other worlds, other times" as basic common sense would dictate based on Bruno calling Ares killing Kratos as an alternate timeline.

If "alt timelines" were referring to alt Mortal Worlds only, you run into problems of copies of the same people from alt timelines dying and then ending up in the same Underworld.

The term "World" has been used as a synonym for the Greek World and its contents many times, as with the Ascension Timelines mentioning how nuking the World Pillar leads to the end of all creation (Persephone even stating that all that came before would end and the World would revert to Chaos).

OP elaborates what this "World" here encompasses exactly, which, surprise surprise, is the Greek World:

The Greater Timelines​

On top of all of this, there exist alternate timelines that manifest as a result of the Sisters of Fate changing the past to create new futures and thus retroactively change fate.

During the battle with the Sisters of Fate, Atropos sends him through one of the mirrors and goes back in time to their battle with Ares.[28] In doing so, she explains that one of the powers of the Fates is to rewrite the past and create a new future i.e. timeline. Developer confirmation exists that Kratos changed the timeline by going back in time, even including the timeline where Kratos failed to stop Atropos[34].

Our current treatment of these timelines as only specifically mirroring the mortal world quite frankly, doesn't make sense. The Sisters of Fate are repeatedly stated to command the fate of the entire world without exception. This extends even to other dimensions within the Greek World, such as the Underworld, being under the purview of the "whole world" and when changing the past would've included all of Kratos' actions up until that point, including the short jaunt to the Underworld and further back, the prevention of the merger of the realm of dreams and the mortal world. Obvious from the lack of paradoxes born from these changes to his life not leading to Kratos emerging from the Underworld to meet himself a second time during God of War I.

As such, the attempted change to the past would create timelines of the entire Greek World, showcased by how Atropos's re-entry into the fight with Lahkesis from back in time is described as being another "world" as well as time[33], including further confirmation from the Brady Guidebook of God of War II, which states these worlds behind these time mirrors to be alternate time dimensions[35].

The Guide Book calls the worlds behind the mirrors as "Alt time dimensions".

AKA synonyms used to refer to the exact same thing. The Greek World at large.

Basically, as a result of the above sources, the higher temporal dimension would undoubtedly be a part of creation, which in turn is a part of the Greek World, making said Greek World a hypertimeline in and of itself. There are 6 extra such alternate "hypertimelines" like it. Each with their own Underworld and World Pillar

Hence, given that the World Pillar lifts up the Greek World (As mentioned by Bruno when he states that Atlas lifts the Greek World in the World Pillar's stead), it would also be Low 1-C in terms of durability and LS. Since without the World Pillar, creation collapses and ceases to exist.

I'll let @Georredannea15 and @Planck69 hash out the details of how the range would be worded for the Primordials, Great Evils and Hope.

 

[Planck69]

So, me, KLOL506 and @Tanin_iver have discussed the matter offline and the we've decided to agree to disagree on the matter of the World Pillar scaling.

TL;DR Tanin agrees with the cosmology update, is neutral to Primordial scaling and disagrees with World Pillar scaling. I've updated his vote so say as much.

 

[Georredannea15]

The Mainline Greek World here is synonymized numerous times as "this world, this time".

Making the worlds behind the mirrors as "other worlds, other times" as basic common sense would dictate based on Bruno calling Ares killing Kratos as an alternate timeline.

If "alt timelines" were referring to alt Mortal Worlds only, you run into problems of copies of the same people from alt timelines dying and then ending up in the same Underworld.

The term "World" has been used as a synonym for the Greek World and its contents many times, as with the Ascension Timelines mentioning how nuking the World Pillar leads to the end of all creation (Persephone even stating that all that came before would end and the World would revert to Chaos).

OP elaborates what this "World" here encompasses exactly, which, surprise surprise, is the Greek World:



The Guide Book calls the worlds behind the mirrors as "Alt time dimensions".

AKA synonyms used to refer to the exact same thing. The Greek World at large.

Basically, as a result of the above sources, the higher temporal dimension would undoubtedly be a part of creation, which in turn is a part of the Greek World, making said Greek World a hypertimeline in and of itself. There are 6 extra such alternate "hypertimelines" like it. Each with their own Underworld and World Pillar

Hence, given that the World Pillar lifts up the Greek World (As mentioned by Bruno when he states that Atlas lifts the Greek World in the World Pillar's stead), it would also be Low 1-C in terms of durability and LS. Since without the World Pillar, creation collapses and ceases to exist.

I'll let @Georredannea15 and @Planck69 hash out the details of how the range would be worded for the Primordials, Great Evils and Hope.

I don't have much to add, that's basically the situation.

 

[KLOL506]

So @Planck69, you gonna add it?

 

[Planck69]

Yeah. Gimme a moment.

@Marvel_Champion_07 Can you open the God of War Explanation pages? Both of them?

God of War Explanation Page

The following is a page detailing the nature of the cosmology of the acclaimed video game series, God of War and how it handles the existence of all mythologies and belief systems simultaneously, on an Earth that's far larger and stranger than one would imagine at first glance. A common...

vsbattles.fandom.com

God of War Magic System Explanation Page

The following explains the magic of the setting, its nature, potency, and different manifestations and abilities. There's always been a tie between magic, the soul, and life-force, which can be seen in multiple instances. Vanquishing enemies with runic magic allows one to harness their life...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Planck69]

I'm done with the changes on my end. I'll close this thread.

 

[Planck69]

@Marvel_Champion_07 if you're free, please close the above two pages.