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God of War - Ascension Kratos and the Redeemed Warrior Revision

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DarkDragonMedeus said:
Well, Atlas does lift up the entire surface area of the Earth yes, which was calculated at High 6-A, but doesn't he do that in his 3-A/High 3-A/Low 2-C key? The statement also appears to be referring to Atlas and not his hammer's weight. But at the moment, it appears to be treated as a universal feat due to some of the "Lore" statements. But there are some conflictions that have been brought up.
Click to expand...
Would that even work for AP now because it's lifting

And yeah GOW needs to be fixed
 
Hellbeast said:
Would that even work for AP now because it's lifting

And yeah GOW needs to be fixed
Click to expand...
I am pretty sure the lifting feat was never used for AP anyway....it was just a support feat hell not even that but just a an indicative feat to show that thier powers do in fact cross into cosmic tiers.
 
Can tell you it was

Atlas lifting the Earth was part of why they're Multi-Continent at all and I myself used that reasoning in the past.

He'd still be Multi-Continental for all the shit with Helios (who he beat up)
 
Yeah he scales above Cronus and Helios...

Helios's blast I believe could shatter the World Pillar which whose destruction would have immediately collapsed all realms into Chaos( with capital C)...so thats a stabilization feat for Pillar, and solid AP feat for Helios.

I need to reread the GoW stuff again...
 
The thing is it took several blasts to destroy the Pillar and Persephone's death boom finished it off so it's unquantifiable how much was doing what, especially since Atlas seems to have needed Helios' power to do it if memory serves.
 
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Hmm but seriously damaging a Low2C construct still gets you that AP.....

Ahhh now I remembered....since Atlas lifts in place of pillar....he has LS and Stabilization feat..
 
The problem is I don't get why we're assuming the Pillar not only holds the Earth or even the infinite universe, but space time itself in place or how a physical concept and physical being without time manipulation is able to support this at all.

Or how when we see Chaos in GOW III it's just an apocalyptic event and not some kind of universal collapse into an infinite, timeless void

I won't get into it here though and I frankly am retiring when my DCEU revisions are finished so I don't really give a **** about having yet another extended debate against using questionable Twitter statements.
 
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As for this I'm blatantly against upgrading The Warrior and Kratos

We're using a multiplayer weapon's flowery description to justify putting these characters miles above any other feat they have in the game. And don't tell me Hercules counts because that would
  • Imply Kratos has always been superior to Hercules (which makes no sense)
  • Would mean everyone is Universal
Hell considering the reasoning for their current rating relies upon:
  • Weapons from Multiplayer
  • A statement for one of Kratos' powers (Ice of Poseidon I believe)
  • A sustenance feat from Alecto which might not be valid anymore
  • And the Furies illusions, despite the fact they are clearly referenced as illusions multiple times.
So I'm unsure whether they should even be 7-B a this point
 
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And yeah GOW needs to be fixed
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I've been told there's supposed to be some verse busting downgrade since 2019. There's never middle ground with GoW, it's either
"lol but did you know kratos is above time as a concept with his speed and can casually bust 5-D Multiverses?" or "GoW gods don't go past tier 6 and hypersonic".
Every single argument was addressed in both the original CRT's for both pantheons, and the laughable downgrade that already happened after that.

As ascension multiplayer, I really have no opinion. I said I'd agree for now, but if any legitimate arguments present themselves I'll side with them. It's hard to do anything with them, plus a lot of stuff on their pages is pure powerscaling. I will say, the multiplayer weapons have direct confirmation of being legit, and their "over the top" bio's are meant to be taken seriously, so they can't just be thrown out the window.
 
Was it?

Because I'm not seeing any real response to the fact 90 percent of the feats come from just randomly contacting staff from Santa Monica

I'd also hardly call that thread "pathetic" since it does genuinely bring solid points

As for the multiplayer stuff, I'm honestly fine with the statements but not for what you mean.

I'm fine with them being scaling for the Gods and Titans (they add a lot of consistency) but I disagree with applying it to the Redeemed Warrior since we have no idea if he ever canonically gets those weapons.

Considering you can also get the Nemean Cestus, Helmet of Hades, Mjolnir and the Blade of Olympus (Iirc, it's been a while) I kind of doubt that the weapins being used is anything but some fun artistic license. It makes no sense for such powerful and legendary weapons to be granted to random champions when even Kratos, the legendary Ghost of Sparta, gets much less and has to steal half his weapons.
 
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So should the GoW profile pages be downgraded then?
 
Technically GoW are in dire need of upgrades...
The 4A for Norse Pantheon....and even 3A/Low2C stuff for Greek Pantheon is laughable downplay....

Both Pantheons should be straight up 2C.....
There is some guidebook evidence that realms in Greek Cosmology are space-times individually. Atleast a few of them.

If Kepekley or Paradox were present they would have made GoW 2C a while ago.
 
As far i concerned. I can see the problem in Greek GoW.

It does not have direct in-game statement/feat/lore. Mostly come from secondary canon unlike Norse version where there are direct statement in the game like "Odin killed Ymir which came from great void" or Thor capable damaging yggdrasil (transcending time and space construct), etc.....
But i don't really agree that 90% feats are from randomly contacting staff from Santa Monica. Mostly developer re-confirmed what happened in primary canon/secondary canon.

Without dev confirmation/statement. There are 2-C tier feat based on GoW Chains of Olympus lore background story.

And for Multiplayer. It's rely heavily on powerscaling from Gods/titans which need to be rexamined. Does the contradiction is severe or just minor ?
In conclusion i have same opinion with Obi2cool4kenobi. Agree until there are legitimate arguments.
 
Hellbeast said:
As for this I'm blatantly against upgrading The Warrior and Kratos

We're using a multiplayer weapon's flowery description to justify putting these characters miles above any other feat they have in the game. And don't tell me Hercules counts because that would
  • Imply Kratos has always been superior to Hercules (which makes no sense)
  • Would mean everyone is Universal
Click to expand...
You're told in your face by the developers that those items are supposed to be over the top, as well as expanding on the lore, and yet you dismiss them as a mere "flowery description". I honestly don't know what to tell you.

The Redeemed Warrior "beating" Hercules in Trials of the Gods is most likely just an outlier. Even then, all the Warrior managed to do was knock Herc down and keep beating him, he obviously wasn't able to kill him. The fact that the scene cuts to black and leave the exact outcome ambiguos strongly suggest that the Warrior wasn't even able to knock Herc out. However, the case can be made that Ascension Herc is simply weaker than GoW III Herc. There's like 23 years gap between those instalments of the series, more than enough time to get stronger.

As for Kratos being always superior to Hercules... well... he was chosen to deal with Ares over Herc, as well as succedding Ares as a god of war, something that Herc remains pretty salty about all those years later:

Make of that what you will.
 
Okay, so no downgrades now then.

What has been accepted here?
 
Hellbeast said:
Considering you can also get the Nemean Cestus, Helmet of Hades, Mjolnir and the Blade of Olympus (Iirc, it's been a while) I kind of doubt that the weapins being used is anything but some fun artistic license. It makes no sense for such powerful and legendary weapons to be granted to random champions when even Kratos, the legendary Ghost of Sparta, gets much less and has to steal half his weapons.
Click to expand...
well GoW Ascension takes place where Kratos can be considered "Mortal" by the gods.
Mjolnir is not canon. It's collaboration between Sony Santa Monica and the History Channel.
 
GilverTheProtoAngelo said:
Most seem to be in favour of both speed and AP, LS upgrades.
Now all that is left is making a calc blog for approval...and then we can apply the changes after that.
Click to expand...
Okay. Have the staff members here accepted that?
 
Antvasima said:
Okay. Have the staff members here accepted that?
Click to expand...
Well 1)Elizhaa, 2)DemonGodMitchAubin, 3)GlassMan seem positive on it...

If retired staff are also considered then ElimanatorVenom is also favorable on it.

DarkDragonMedeus gave a yes for Speed stuff....but seems neutral on LS and AP....so maybe wanna ask him again if you feel.

If you are fine on it then we have atleast 4 mod votes in favour of upgrades.
 
Elizhaa said the speed upgrade seems fine, so I'm fine with that. But as for the AP, I agree with Hellbeast tbh. And not ready to tackle the major revisions, but I do agree the current placements are heavily shaky at best.
 
Okay. Thanks for the reply.

Can somebody summarise what is intended to be applied here please?
 
Vaner77 said:
This
Click to expand...
Summarise the arguments pls...since this is your thread.....how do you want to proceed from here??

If he does not answer well....I'll try summarising.

The Redeemed Warrior will get SoL exclusively with Essence of Hyperion.
Ascension Key Kratos will scale to this.

Redeemed Warrior will get possibly or likely High 6A exclusively with Hammer of Atlas ....pending Calc Blog.
Ascension Key Kratos will likely downscale from this.

Same with Lifting Stength.

The OP can elaborate more if he wishes or correct me if he wishes.
 
GilverTheProtoAngelo said:
The Redeemed Warrior will get SoL exclusively with Essence of Hyperion.
Ascension Key Kratos will scale to this.
Click to expand...
Yes regarding the Warrior.
Kratos doesn't have EoH, so I don't think he should scale.
GilverTheProtoAngelo said:
Redeemed Warrior will get possibly or likely High 6A exclusively with Hammer of Atlas ....pending Calc Blog.
Ascension Key Kratos will likely downscale from this.
Click to expand...
Regarding the Warrior, I was thinking more in line "At least High 6A, higher with Hammer of Atlas", for now at least. Once the calc is made, we can change "higher" to the calculated tier.
Kratos should be left with "At least High 6A", with "stronger than The Redeemed Warrior" as a justification.
GilverTheProtoAngelo said:
Same with Lifting Stength.
Click to expand...
Yep.
Btw. do you think there should be a separate key for Ascension Hercules?
 
Vaner77 said:
You're told in your face by the developers that those items are supposed to be over the top, as well as expanding on the lore, and yet you dismiss them as a mere "flowery description". I honestly don't know what to tell you.
Click to expand...
Read my comment again please

I have no issue with the statements for the weapons but I have issue assuming they were all canonically granted to the Redeemed Warrior, making him a multi-continental character, especially when said weapons include
  • A weapon from a whole different mythology
  • The signature weapons of the greatest Demigod in Greece
  • the signature Helmet of Hades

The Redeemed Warrior "beating" Hercules in Trials of the Gods is most likely just an outlier. Even then, all the Warrior managed to do was knock Herc down and keep beating him, he obviously wasn't able to kill him. The fact that the scene cuts to black and leave the exact outcome ambiguos strongly suggest that the Warrior wasn't even able to knock Herc out. However, the case can be made that Ascension Herc is simply weaker than GoW III Herc. There's like 23 years gap between those instalments of the series, more than enough time to get stronger.
There’s no evidence Hercules ever grew in power and he looks and fights exactly the same in Ascension

Even if Hercules wasn’t knocked out you’re implying the Warrior could fight him evenly, at one point destroying his Cestus
Vaner77 said:
As for Kratos being always superior to Hercules... well... he was chosen to deal with Ares over Herc, as well as succedding Ares as a god of war, something that Herc remains pretty salty about all those years later:

Make of that what you will.
Click to expand...

Yeah he was favoured by Athena (something Hercules attributed to Zeus’ favouritism), not more powerful then the very get go.

Again feel free to argue the guy who’s relative to GOWIII Kratos is somehow much weaker and simultaneously as strong despite the fact there’s no evidence Herc grew in strength
 
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Hellbeast said:
Read my comment again please

I have no issue with the statements for the weapons but I have issue assuming they were all canonically granted to the Redeemed Warrior, making him a multi-continental character, especially when said weapons include
  • A weapon from a whole different mythology
  • The signature weapons of the greatest Demigod in Greece
  • the signature Helmet of Hades
Click to expand...
Wheter the Warrior "cannonically" wielded the Hammer is meaningless. The important thing is that he can.

  • First, as mentioned already by Andika_CL_atmadja, Mjolnir's appearance was a result of colaboration between Santa Monica Studio and History Channel to promote the Vikings TV series, so it's "cannonicity" is questionable. Second, this wouldn't even be the first time when an element from a different mythology had found its way into GoW Greek universe. In Chains of Olympus, Kratos aquires the Efreet, a creature from Arabian Mythology;
  • Questionable;
  • And? Every weapon or power in the multiplayer is bestowed on you by your patron god, as stated in the artbook. What's so unbelievable in Hades gaving his helmet to his champion?
Hellbeast said:
There’s no evidence Hercules ever grew in power and he looks and fights exactly the same in Ascension

Even if Hercules wasn’t knocked out you’re implying the Warrior could fight him evenly, at one point destroying his Cestus
Click to expand...
True, there isn't. Which is why I said it's most likely an outlier. Still, Herc goes from being defeated by the Warrior (who is cofirmed to be, in base, weaker than Ascension Kratos) to being able to hold his own against GoW III Kratos. Herc doesn't need statements confirming his growth, when his feats speak for themselves.

Also, from what I see in this video, it wasn't the Warrior who destroyed Herc's Cestus, but Herc himself.
Hellbeast said:
Yeah he was favoured by Athena (something Hercules attributed to Zeus’ favouritism), not more powerful then the very get go.

Again feel free to argue the guy who’s relative to GOWIII Kratos is somehow much weaker and simultaneously as strong despite the fact there’s no evidence Herc grew in strength
Click to expand...
And you think Zeus would just grant Kratos a seat on Olympus out of favouritism for Athena, while having a perfectly loyal and (supposedly) more powerful puppet in Hercules? The novelization says outright that Zeus declared Kratos worthy.

Why, thank you for your permission. Except I have no need to argue that. I said outright that the whole Hercules thingy is, most likely, an outlier. Still, I've shown that there is a logical explanation for the supposed Herc's power fluctuation.
 
Vaner77 said:
Wheter the Warrior "cannonically" wielded the Hammer is meaningless. The important thing is that he can.
Click to expand...
How?
Even if you say “multiplayer” that doesn’t necessarily mean he has access to it, completely ignoring how ridiculous it is to scale him to the Gods of the verse
Vaner77 said:
  • First, as mentioned already by Andika_CL_atmadja, Mjolnir's appearance was a result of colaboration between Santa Monica Studio and History Channel to promote the Vikings TV series, so it's "cannonicity" is questionable. Second, this wouldn't even be the first time when an element from a different mythology had found its way into GoW Greek universe. In Chains of Olympus, Kratos aquires the Efreet, a creature from Arabian Mythology;
  • Questionable;
  • And? Every weapon or power in the multiplayer is bestowed on you by your patron god, as stated in the artbook. What's so unbelievable in Hades gaving his helmet to his champion?
Click to expand...
1) Mjolnir being questionably canon proves my point we shouldn’t be assuming the Warrior should be getting these weapons as scaling
2) The Efreet is shown in use by the Barbarian King (from Persia) and Kratos kills him for it, it’s much different
3) The fact he’s never referenced to have given it out and the fact it’s a key part of his ensemble
Vaner77 said:
True, there isn't. Which is why I said it's most likely an outlier. Still, Herc goes from being defeated by the Warrior (who is cofirmed to be, in base, weaker than Ascension Kratos) to being able to hold his own against GoW III Kratos. Herc doesn't need statements confirming his growth, when his feats speak for themselves.

Also, from what I see in this video, it wasn't the Warrior who destroyed Herc's Cestus, but Herc himself.
Click to expand...
You’re saying this as if having the weapons vaporised a decade before Kratos himself wields them is ridiculous
Vaner77 said:
And you think Zeus would just grant Kratos a seat on Olympus out of favouritism for Athena, while having a perfectly loyal and (supposedly) more powerful puppet in Hercules? The novelization says outright that Zeus declared Kratos worthy.
Click to expand...
Zeus declared Kratos worthy in the novel because of Athena’s machinations
It’s why any of the gods support him.

Poseidon only gives him his Rage because he believes Ares conjured the Hydra, Aphrodite because Ares used Medusa and Artemis because Ares was destroying the wilds and an outright confrontation was forbidden.

The only ones who we don’t see Athena manipulate are Zeus (whom had his own plans) and Hades (iirc, he’s not present)
Vaner77 said:
Why, thank you for your permission. Except I have no need to argue that. I said outright that the whole Hercules thingy is, most likely, an outlier. Still, I've shown that there is a logical explanation for the supposed Herc's power fluctuation.
Click to expand...
No there isn’t and tone down the condescension
 
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Also I almost forgot

Even if we say the Warrior is Speed of Light based off the Essence of Hyperion (which makes no sense since it's blatantly higher then 90% of the speed feats in the verse), it absolutely should be exclusively through that ability and not applicable to Kratos during Ascension at all.

It's like assuming Thanos can output the AP of the Infinity Gauntlet even without the weapon and then using that to scale everyone else.

@DarkDragonMedeus You seem active on here so I'm curious on your take regarding Ascension Kratos' tiering (specifically the issues I raised with the current tier)
 
Hellbeast said:
Also I almost forgot

Even if we say the Warrior is Speed of Light based off the Essence of Hyperion (which makes no sense since it's blatantly higher then 90% of the speed feats in the verse), it absolutely should be exclusively through that ability and not applicable to Kratos during Ascension at all.

It's like assuming Thanos can output the AP of the Infinity Gauntlet even without the weapon and then using that to scale everyone else.

@DarkDragonMedeus You seem active on here so I'm curious on your take regarding Ascension Kratos' tiering (specifically the issues I raised with the current tier)
Click to expand...
Vaner later corrected me and said that the Essensce of Hyperion is exclusive to the user himself.....and no one else would be scaling.
 
I know I just felt like noting it here

Especially the fact it seems like an outlier since I don't recall any other Light Speed Feats (The closest to it is Relativistic)
 
Why does it make no sense when all of the god tiers scale to MFTL+? That doesn’t make it an outlier at all.
 
What even if the argument here? That light speed as a whole in the verse is an outlier? It's only short bursts, and it's a stripped down version of the very same move Zeus uses in GoW 2/3. The reference of Hyperion in the move itself, the previous embodiment of the sun and wielder of the primordial flame, is quite telling by itself with it channeling his power. The fact it's WoG stated the over the top descriptions are meant to be taken literal, on top of the fact they are bestowed these powers and abilities by the god tiers in the verse with feats to back them up, is enough. It's an ability tied speed burst, it's not their overall speed. It's temporary.
 
There are currently doubts about the current reasons for the Massively FTL+ ratings; it's just assuming that traveling to other universes is assume to be crossing the distance of multiple observable universes like a quilted multiverse. Which DontTalkDT wrote rules against assuming that; and that feats like that cannot be assumed anything beyond dimensional travel. I know Kep was confident the cast was that fast, he at least admits the current reasons for it are pretty weak. But in general, the current god tier ratings of the God of War cast are messy due to an overreliance on Twitter posts that strongly contradict various in game showings.

There are apparently Cosmic feats in some of the more recent Novels, which may save 3-A and possibly the speed ratings. But I have not read the novels myself, and those should be prioritized instead of random author statements.
 
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