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The basic premise of this thread is that the current Fear Manipulation standards for the verse are bad and we should change them.
Short version for lazy people:
The current interpretation for Fear Manip in the verse is stinky, makes no sense, and we should change it. I have 2 options of how, one being we directly scale it based on in-universe tiers, and the other that we scale it individually.
Long version:
Currently, we treat Fear Manipulation for GoH characters like this:
The problem with our current interpretation:
The current interpretation seems to imply that the characters simply scare their opponents by having higher AP. This is wrong for 2 main reasons. Well 3. Reason 0 would be that it's kind of baseless. We don't have any hints at the FM working this way besides stronger characters scaring weaker characters but it's never actually tied to having higher or lower AP.
Reason 1 being that it's contradicted by the events of the series, such as when Mori transforming makes Ogre shiver in fear despite Ogre being far stronger
Mori even notes he can't believe just how strong she is. Reason 2 is that it goes against how the fear manipulation has been shown and described to work. But for that we need to talk about how FM in GoH actually works.
So let's talk about the most basic aspect of the FM.
How does Fear Manipulation in GoH work?
We have a direct WoG that fear inducement is a "the basic skill of every great predator".
This not only further hammers in the original idea that (basically) everyone in the verse has fear manipulation, but also tells us it's a skill. We even see characters actively weaponize this skill to win entire tournaments early on in the series. To see how this skill works we can look at several different examples but the best ones in my opinion would be:
Manseoks introduction in chapter 7:
This tells us that the fear is induced on an instinctual level. In other words, the fear skill manipulates the very instincts of the target. The second would be the time Mori Jung met Daewi for the first time in chapter 320:
This is one of the few times we see this skill be used through the eyes of the target. It shows us that despite the user not actually doing anything that should scare the target, the target is going completely nuts not even understanding why.
And previously mentioned Ilpyo scaring the entire arena in his introduction back in chapter 57:
This shows us the targets actually feel as if they were under some immobilizing pressure despite nothing actually binding their bodies.
Furthermore, this skill has been often described as a "energy" that even affects people when they don't even see the source of the energy which further confirms this as some sort of magical pressure.
So what we know about fear manipulation from these is:
1. It's a basic skill any relevant fighter should have.
2. It affects the targets instincts, overflowing them with a paralyzing feeling of fear and dread.
3. It's of super natural origin, often described as "pressure" or "energy".
Conclusion:
With all this we can safely conclude that fear manipulation in GoH is not just "scaring weaker people by being stronger" but a supernatural skill that affects the targets instincts. It should be more similar to genjutsu in Naruto or reiatsu crush in Bleach, a hax ability that increases in potency as the user grows in power.
What does this changes?
First and most importantly, we remove the "against beings weaker than him" part from everyone's profile. Since it's a hax skill/ability there's no reason they would need to be stronger than their opponents to use them. This ESPECIALLY true in GoH where power isn't even directly tied to AP but overall ability.
Secondly, we treat the ability as layered. This is because we see characters who resisted FM in certain cases still get affected by other peoples FM. The only question is how do we go about this. I thought about it and came to 2 possible options.
Option 1:
We simply use the canonical tiers within the verse. We often see that as long as 2 characters are in a similar ballpark of power they resist each others FM. This is even in cases when one is stronger than the other but still within a similar tier. We get sort of, official hierarchy in-universe which can be used for this purpose. That being the King(gods) > Bishops > Followers scaling as well as the Supreme God > regular God scaling. This would be the simplest option and most consistent with the fact that we constantly see priests FM characters on par with followers, bishops FM characters on par with priests, and gods FM characters on par with bishops, as well as Supreme God Mori FM Satan which he couldn't do at the level of a regular God.
Option 2:
We draw a direct chain of resistances. For example, Mira is unaffected by Manseoks FM but is affected by Ilpyos.
Therefore Ilpyos FM > Miras resistance > Manseoks FM.
This may inflate or deflate some characters FM higher than option 1 would and would need an in depth breakdown of the FM on everyone's profile individually. This is a more complicated and more detailed option but may leave certain characters downplayed as they usually tend to purposely hide their presence (such as Mori Dan) or only fight top tiers who would naturally resist anyones FM (such as Satan).
If anyone has some other idea about a good 3rd option please let me know and I'll update the OP.
Option 3:
We do a combination of options 1 and 2. Characters who didn't get the chance to perform direct feats will be scaled off of their respective tier (supreme god, god, bishop, etc) and people who show higher levels of FM beyond that get additional personal scaling
Agrees with option 1: DavidTPPM,
Agrees with option 2: DavidTPPM, Halkum145, Linafrfr, Mndks, PowerToScale
Agrees with option 3: DavidTPPM, Halkum145, Spectra_Shiffer, Zeinx1, Sir_Ovens, DarkDragonMedeus, PowerToScale, Yeolban
Disagrees (stinky
):
Short version for lazy people:
The current interpretation for Fear Manip in the verse is stinky, makes no sense, and we should change it. I have 2 options of how, one being we directly scale it based on in-universe tiers, and the other that we scale it individually.
Long version:
Currently, we treat Fear Manipulation for GoH characters like this:
This is based on the accepted blog post by Sir Ovens. Now not only is there nothing wrong with this blog post, it has actually been proven more and more as the series progressed after the blog was published. The issue is with the current interpretation of what this implies.
The problem with our current interpretation:
The current interpretation seems to imply that the characters simply scare their opponents by having higher AP. This is wrong for 2 main reasons. Well 3. Reason 0 would be that it's kind of baseless. We don't have any hints at the FM working this way besides stronger characters scaring weaker characters but it's never actually tied to having higher or lower AP.
Reason 1 being that it's contradicted by the events of the series, such as when Mori transforming makes Ogre shiver in fear despite Ogre being far stronger
Mori even notes he can't believe just how strong she is. Reason 2 is that it goes against how the fear manipulation has been shown and described to work. But for that we need to talk about how FM in GoH actually works.
So let's talk about the most basic aspect of the FM.
How does Fear Manipulation in GoH work?
We have a direct WoG that fear inducement is a "the basic skill of every great predator".
This not only further hammers in the original idea that (basically) everyone in the verse has fear manipulation, but also tells us it's a skill. We even see characters actively weaponize this skill to win entire tournaments early on in the series. To see how this skill works we can look at several different examples but the best ones in my opinion would be:
Manseoks introduction in chapter 7:
This tells us that the fear is induced on an instinctual level. In other words, the fear skill manipulates the very instincts of the target. The second would be the time Mori Jung met Daewi for the first time in chapter 320:
This is one of the few times we see this skill be used through the eyes of the target. It shows us that despite the user not actually doing anything that should scare the target, the target is going completely nuts not even understanding why.
And previously mentioned Ilpyo scaring the entire arena in his introduction back in chapter 57:
This shows us the targets actually feel as if they were under some immobilizing pressure despite nothing actually binding their bodies.
Furthermore, this skill has been often described as a "energy" that even affects people when they don't even see the source of the energy which further confirms this as some sort of magical pressure.
So what we know about fear manipulation from these is:
1. It's a basic skill any relevant fighter should have.
2. It affects the targets instincts, overflowing them with a paralyzing feeling of fear and dread.
3. It's of super natural origin, often described as "pressure" or "energy".
Conclusion:
With all this we can safely conclude that fear manipulation in GoH is not just "scaring weaker people by being stronger" but a supernatural skill that affects the targets instincts. It should be more similar to genjutsu in Naruto or reiatsu crush in Bleach, a hax ability that increases in potency as the user grows in power.
What does this changes?
First and most importantly, we remove the "against beings weaker than him" part from everyone's profile. Since it's a hax skill/ability there's no reason they would need to be stronger than their opponents to use them. This ESPECIALLY true in GoH where power isn't even directly tied to AP but overall ability.
Secondly, we treat the ability as layered. This is because we see characters who resisted FM in certain cases still get affected by other peoples FM. The only question is how do we go about this. I thought about it and came to 2 possible options.
Option 1:
We simply use the canonical tiers within the verse. We often see that as long as 2 characters are in a similar ballpark of power they resist each others FM. This is even in cases when one is stronger than the other but still within a similar tier. We get sort of, official hierarchy in-universe which can be used for this purpose. That being the King(gods) > Bishops > Followers scaling as well as the Supreme God > regular God scaling. This would be the simplest option and most consistent with the fact that we constantly see priests FM characters on par with followers, bishops FM characters on par with priests, and gods FM characters on par with bishops, as well as Supreme God Mori FM Satan which he couldn't do at the level of a regular God.
Option 2:
We draw a direct chain of resistances. For example, Mira is unaffected by Manseoks FM but is affected by Ilpyos.
Therefore Ilpyos FM > Miras resistance > Manseoks FM.
This may inflate or deflate some characters FM higher than option 1 would and would need an in depth breakdown of the FM on everyone's profile individually. This is a more complicated and more detailed option but may leave certain characters downplayed as they usually tend to purposely hide their presence (such as Mori Dan) or only fight top tiers who would naturally resist anyones FM (such as Satan).
If anyone has some other idea about a good 3rd option please let me know and I'll update the OP.
Option 3:
We do a combination of options 1 and 2. Characters who didn't get the chance to perform direct feats will be scaled off of their respective tier (supreme god, god, bishop, etc) and people who show higher levels of FM beyond that get additional personal scaling
Agrees with option 1: DavidTPPM,
Agrees with option 2: DavidTPPM, Halkum145, Linafrfr, Mndks, PowerToScale
Agrees with option 3: DavidTPPM, Halkum145, Spectra_Shiffer, Zeinx1, Sir_Ovens, DarkDragonMedeus, PowerToScale, Yeolban
Disagrees (stinky
):
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