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God Ki Holy Manipulation
- Thread starter XXKINGXX69
- Start date
- Status
- 584
- 312
The properties you are referring to is what it is NORMALLY portrayed as, not how it must be. The only criteria that is listed is being able to manipulate divine/sacred energy, which obviously god ki users do. The other shit literally does not matter.
Its verbatim stated to be divine energy. If you guys wanna make a crt for a revision of holy manip sure, i'd even back up the revision. But according to this definition in paticular, god ki objectively qualifies.
Jibz
He/Him- 3,111
- 2,505
Let's ask for staff input. If it does fit the criteria for Holy manip, then a CRT needs to be made to revise it. If it doesn't then it doesn't. All this "no you're wrong!" "actually NO you're wrong!" is pointless if we are unclear on if it qualifies or not due to its in all honestly horrid description
Gilad_Hyperstar
He/Him- 11,210
- 4,233
Even when God Ki is objectively used for evil? Like with Zamasu?
- 584
- 312
evil is not objective lmfao its definitions and qualifications vary from one person to another. and regardless zamasu is stated to be a good person by toriyama so
- 14,891
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Vietthai96
He/Him- 9,276
- 12,372
Vizer04
He/Him- 5,097
- 3,144
Vietthai96
He/Him- 9,276
- 12,372
Well, fundamentally, Zamasu is pure hearted like Son Goku, however he is misguided.
- 584
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- 6,234
- 2,363
Thanos did nothin wrong!?????.
Gilad_Hyperstar
He/Him- 11,210
- 4,233
Zamasu WAS a good person. And evil is objective yes. He literally killed all GoDs and became the universe itself while killing all mortalsevil is not objective lmfao its definitions and qualifications vary from one person to another. and regardless zamasu is stated to be a good person by toriyama so
Zamasu was a good guy that turned bad because of his hatred to mortals
- 12,662
- 9,599
Anyway, the reasons for wanting holy manip is extremely lackluster. If we took it at face value, we should probably hand over this power to at least 80% of wiki characters lol.
- 5,879
- 1,070
- Thread starter
- #54
Scans?
Revise the definition then, or I'll do it
It only needs to be divine. What properties does "divine" have? And good and evil are subjective terms, it can be divine and evil
- 12,662
- 9,599
Have you thought about, idk, maybe bringer stronger evidence?
- 5,879
- 1,070
- Thread starter
- #57
For?
- 12,662
- 9,599
It is quite broad. But to qualify for it, you need to have access to divine/holy sources of power and stuff like that. That of course comes down to greater verse context and lore.
- 14,679
- 11,745
Bruh, he literally murders on a whim, not even as his job, he sometimes just does it because he was pissed off slightly, and he's a ******* asshole, King Kai's planet was busted because he lost in Mario Kart, he sealed Old Kai in the Z sword. He constantly threatens others with death and is just a bitch.
It's kinda ****** up when his job is literally destroying shit, but he t extends to the point he destroys shit not because it's his job, but because he's a ass. And he doesn't even do the other part of his job in cultivating the worlds for the better, he just blows things up if they don't appease him.
Vizer04
He/Him- 5,097
- 3,144
In the Dragon Ball World is not subjective
Jibz
He/Him- 3,111
- 2,505
he quite literally.... erased half of an entire planet (which i assume would include population) because a dish was slightly salty.
Nullflowerblush
He/Him- 9,309
- 8,070
Holy, elegant, purifying; almost magical in nature, if not wholly. It is both energetically and spiritually benevolent in nature. It can heal wounds, cleanse hearts and souls, banish evil, and relieve the dead of their grudges. It is, as the name would suggest, like a god; not a "god", as in a God of Destruction, but a god.
In-universe context matters.
Also, before you get all uppity about me making up explanations, this was all gathered from definitions of "holy" and "divine" and the actual page of Holy Manipulation.
- 5,879
- 1,070
- Thread starter
- #65
The holy manip page doesnt require all that, just divine
"Often portrayed", not that it has to
So? Still uses divine ki
Nullflowerblush
He/Him- 9,309
- 8,070
I'm at the point where I'm just going to list myself as an opponent on the Dragon Ball page.
- 9,226
- 3,367
yea **** dragon ball, shitty ass verse
- 6,234
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If u get a power because of your name, then the powers definition probably needs a change.
Jibz
He/Him- 3,111
- 2,505
Why are we arguing an inherently fallacious CRT. Its a name fallacy. Clearly the term "divine" ki in the series is refferring to it being the ki of an ascendent being at the level of gods, not holy in nature. As people have pointed out you could replace "divine" with super and it'd be the same effect.
This feels to me like manipulating the context of the description of "Holy manipulation is, in short, the ability to manipulate divine or sacred energy and/or objects pertaining to such forces."
This is so obviously about powers that are at its essence "sacred" or "divine". God ki / Divine ki, is none of these things. It's merely wielded by gods. And im not even going to entertain the notion that because you are at the same level / use the same ki as a "god" in DBS you'd have holy manipulation. I refuse to waste my time so stupidly. God ki is basically the charmeleon to ki's charmander. It's just an evolution. It does not represent divine energy in any way shape or form.
Being used by godfigures does not give you holy manipulation, if it did then that'd be insane, its an ability to do with holiness and sacredness as seen further in its description:
" Due to its nature, it is often extremely effective against those deemed "evil" or "monstrous" "
"DUE TO ITS NATURE" this clearly shows that holy manipulation is energy that juxtaposes those deemed "evil" and "monstrous" which Divine energy in DBS is not. Merely being called "divine" energy is not enough, because its in reference to the gods not of the nature of the magic. As corroborated, by nearly all of DBS.
Now let's look a little further:
"Due its connotations, it can most frequently be found on characters based on the Christian faith or some other application, such as Angels, Monotheistic Gods, Saints, Crusaders, Priests. "
"connotations" --> "idea or feeling which a word invokes for a person in addition to its literal or primary meaning."
It must be connected to the primary meaning of holiness as seen as its described as encapsulated by archetypes of holiness. Divine energy is not.
Call me a DBZ opponent* (with the * being me opposing idiocy for the sake of just making ur character stronger).
I don't want to see any conversation about this to continue with the evidence present. Unless something new is brought to the table, i will definitively say
IT IS NOT HOLY MANIP.
This feels to me like manipulating the context of the description of "Holy manipulation is, in short, the ability to manipulate divine or sacred energy and/or objects pertaining to such forces."
This is so obviously about powers that are at its essence "sacred" or "divine". God ki / Divine ki, is none of these things. It's merely wielded by gods. And im not even going to entertain the notion that because you are at the same level / use the same ki as a "god" in DBS you'd have holy manipulation. I refuse to waste my time so stupidly. God ki is basically the charmeleon to ki's charmander. It's just an evolution. It does not represent divine energy in any way shape or form.
Being used by godfigures does not give you holy manipulation, if it did then that'd be insane, its an ability to do with holiness and sacredness as seen further in its description:
" Due to its nature, it is often extremely effective against those deemed "evil" or "monstrous" "
"DUE TO ITS NATURE" this clearly shows that holy manipulation is energy that juxtaposes those deemed "evil" and "monstrous" which Divine energy in DBS is not. Merely being called "divine" energy is not enough, because its in reference to the gods not of the nature of the magic. As corroborated, by nearly all of DBS.
Now let's look a little further:
"Due its connotations, it can most frequently be found on characters based on the Christian faith or some other application, such as Angels, Monotheistic Gods, Saints, Crusaders, Priests. "
"connotations" --> "idea or feeling which a word invokes for a person in addition to its literal or primary meaning."
It must be connected to the primary meaning of holiness as seen as its described as encapsulated by archetypes of holiness. Divine energy is not.
Call me a DBZ opponent* (with the * being me opposing idiocy for the sake of just making ur character stronger).
I don't want to see any conversation about this to continue with the evidence present. Unless something new is brought to the table, i will definitively say
IT IS NOT HOLY MANIP.
- 12,662
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Anyway, is everyone cool with me closing this? It has obviously been entertained more than it should have been.
Jibz
He/Him- 3,111
- 2,505
Yes, please. End this thread. If OP wants to add holy manip so badly he can just get more evidence and make a new thread.
- 12,662
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Done
- Status
