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God Ki Holy Manipulation

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There's nothing divine about it besides it's name "God Ki"

We should change the definition of Holy Manipulation for something more concrete
 
So what? It never showed these properties
The properties you are referring to is what it is NORMALLY portrayed as, not how it must be. The only criteria that is listed is being able to manipulate divine/sacred energy, which obviously god ki users do. The other shit literally does not matter.
There's nothing divine about it besides it's name "God Ki"

We should change the definition of Holy Manipulation for something more concrete
Its verbatim stated to be divine energy. If you guys wanna make a crt for a revision of holy manip sure, i'd even back up the revision. But according to this definition in paticular, god ki objectively qualifies.
 
Let's ask for staff input. If it does fit the criteria for Holy manip, then a CRT needs to be made to revise it. If it doesn't then it doesn't. All this "no you're wrong!" "actually NO you're wrong!" is pointless if we are unclear on if it qualifies or not due to its in all honestly horrid description
 
evil is not objective lmfao its definitions and qualifications vary from one person to another. and regardless zamasu is stated to be a good person by toriyama so 🤷‍♂️
Zamasu WAS a good person. And evil is objective yes. He literally killed all GoDs and became the universe itself while killing all mortals

Zamasu was a good guy that turned bad because of his hatred to mortals
 
What the hell is going on here?

Anyway, the reasons for wanting holy manip is extremely lackluster. If we took it at face value, we should probably hand over this power to at least 80% of wiki characters lol.


Also, Zamasu is a good guy. He is based
 
beerus is not a good guy
Scans?

What the hell is going on here?

Anyway, the reasons for wanting holy manip is extremely lackluster. If we took it at face value, we should probably hand over this power to at least 80% of wiki characters lol.


Also, Zamasu is a good guy. He is based
Revise the definition then, or I'll do it

So what? It never showed these properties

The fact it is called "divine" doesn't mean Holy manip when it shows none of the abilities Holy manip has

You need to display them, as in almost all cases (if not all) those who use Holy magic can directly do all of these abilities

Also as I said, Holy = Good Alignment, while God Ki can be used for both good and evil
It only needs to be divine. What properties does "divine" have? And good and evil are subjective terms, it can be divine and evil
 
As I said, I disagree with this but what are the standards for Holy Manipulation on this site? Apparently it's a broad definition
 
As I said, I disagree with this but what are the standards for Holy Manipulation on this site? Apparently it's a broad definition
It is quite broad. But to qualify for it, you need to have access to divine/holy sources of power and stuff like that. That of course comes down to greater verse context and lore.
 
Bruh, he literally murders on a whim, not even as his job, he sometimes just does it because he was pissed off slightly, and he's a ******* asshole, King Kai's planet was busted because he lost in Mario Kart, he sealed Old Kai in the Z sword. He constantly threatens others with death and is just a bitch.
It's kinda ****** up when his job is literally destroying shit, but he t extends to the point he destroys shit not because it's his job, but because he's a ass. And he doesn't even do the other part of his job in cultivating the worlds for the better, he just blows things up if they don't appease him.
 
"Due to its nature, it is often extremely effective against those deemed "evil" or "monstrous", serving as a weakness to many characters under those categories"

Yeah God Ki is not portrayed as this holy energy that evil characters are innately weak to
 
What properties does "divine" have?
Holy, elegant, purifying; almost magical in nature, if not wholly. It is both energetically and spiritually benevolent in nature. It can heal wounds, cleanse hearts and souls, banish evil, and relieve the dead of their grudges. It is, as the name would suggest, like a god; not a "god", as in a God of Destruction, but a god.

In-universe context matters.

Also, before you get all uppity about me making up explanations, this was all gathered from definitions of "holy" and "divine" and the actual page of Holy Manipulation.
 
Yeah, Beerus is not a "good guy" (whatever that means). At most he's morally neutral and sometimes not even that as he erases others for petty reasons.
 
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Holy, elegant, purifying; almost magical in nature, if not wholly. It is both energetically and spiritually benevolent in nature. It can heal wounds, cleanse hearts and souls, banish evil, and relieve the dead of their grudges. It is, as the name would suggest, like a god; not a "god", as in a God of Destruction, but a god.

In-universe context matters.

Also, before you get all uppity about me making up explanations, this was all gathered from definitions of "holy" and "divine" and the actual page of Holy Manipulation.
The holy manip page doesnt require all that, just divine

"Due to its nature, it is often extremely effective against those deemed "evil" or "monstrous", serving as a weakness to many characters under those categories"

Yeah God Ki is not portrayed as this holy energy that evil characters are innately weak to
"Often portrayed", not that it has to

Yeah, Beerus is not a "good guy" (whatever that means). At most he's neutral and sometimes not even that as he erases others for petty reasons.
So? Still uses divine ki
 
Why are we arguing an inherently fallacious CRT. Its a name fallacy. Clearly the term "divine" ki in the series is refferring to it being the ki of an ascendent being at the level of gods, not holy in nature. As people have pointed out you could replace "divine" with super and it'd be the same effect.

This feels to me like manipulating the context of the description of "Holy manipulation is, in short, the ability to manipulate divine or sacred energy and/or objects pertaining to such forces."

This is so obviously about powers that are at its essence "sacred" or "divine". God ki / Divine ki, is none of these things. It's merely wielded by gods. And im not even going to entertain the notion that because you are at the same level / use the same ki as a "god" in DBS you'd have holy manipulation. I refuse to waste my time so stupidly. God ki is basically the charmeleon to ki's charmander. It's just an evolution. It does not represent divine energy in any way shape or form.

Being used by godfigures does not give you holy manipulation, if it did then that'd be insane, its an ability to do with holiness and sacredness as seen further in its description:

" Due to its nature, it is often extremely effective against those deemed "evil" or "monstrous" "

"DUE TO ITS NATURE" this clearly shows that holy manipulation is energy that juxtaposes those deemed "evil" and "monstrous" which Divine energy in DBS is not. Merely being called "divine" energy is not enough, because its in reference to the gods not of the nature of the magic. As corroborated, by nearly all of DBS.

Now let's look a little further:

"Due its connotations, it can most frequently be found on characters based on the Christian faith or some other application, such as Angels, Monotheistic Gods, Saints, Crusaders, Priests. "

"connotations" --> "idea or feeling which a word invokes for a person in addition to its literal or primary meaning."

It must be connected to the primary meaning of holiness as seen as its described as encapsulated by archetypes of holiness. Divine energy is not.

Call me a DBZ opponent* (with the * being me opposing idiocy for the sake of just making ur character stronger).

I don't want to see any conversation about this to continue with the evidence present. Unless something new is brought to the table, i will definitively say

IT IS NOT HOLY MANIP.
 
Anyway, is everyone cool with me closing this? It has obviously been entertained more than it should have been.
Yes, please. End this thread. If OP wants to add holy manip so badly he can just get more evidence and make a new thread.
 
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