God Ki Holy Manipulation

[XXKINGXX69]

Trunks and Goku Black referred to SSB as using divine power. Its also literally God power, and Goku had to do a ritual to gain SSG, which also counts as Blessed. Don't know if Vegeta should also get Blessed

This should apply to all God Ki users except for I think Future Zamasu and Goku Black (Im pretty sure Present Zamasu doesn't have evil ki)

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

This fits the definition of the power verbatim so I agree.

 

[Vietthai96]

Disagree, the ritual is just people filled Goku with their Ki, he doesn't get blessed by anyone else. And Holy power is not a thing in dragon ball, at least manga and anime continuities. Frieza stated that God Ki is a type of purest Ki, nothing holy here

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Disagree, the ritual is just people filled Goku with their Ki, he doesn't get blessed by anyone else. And Holy power is not a thing in dragon ball, at least manga and anime continuities. Frieza stated that God Ki is a type of purest Ki, nothing holy here

Holy manipulation is just godly power, as long as its good, not evil

He is also blessed by a god ritual, which I think should be considered Blessed

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Disagree, the ritual is just people filled Goku with their Ki, he doesn't get blessed by anyone else. And Holy power is not a thing in dragon ball, at least manga and anime continuities. Frieza stated that God Ki is a type of purest Ki, nothing holy here

Saying that godly ki is just a type of ki is as useful as saying holy power is just a type of power.

 

[Vietthai96]

Saying that godly ki is just a type of ki is as useful as saying holy power is just a type of power.

Oh, so would you mind prove that God Ki can control Holy power????

 

[Nullflowerblush]

They call it "divine power" because it is the Ki used by dieties, but it does not exhibit any distinctly divine or sacred properties — nothing that qualifies for Holy Manipulation. It is just really, really pure and really powerful Ki, and someone like Vegeta could near-perfectly obtain it by just controlling his normal Ki and sucking it back into his body. Hell, even before training in Whis' scepter, Vegeta had developed the ability to sense God Ki after doing chores.

 

[StekFence]

Hes just really good at training. In seriousness, i do agree with nu for now

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

God ki does exhibit holy attributes. For example, only those with the status of a "god" can obtain this power such as kai's and GoDs. Hell even dende who's weak could utilize this. And those with this power get the abikity to be unsensable by mortals. I believe this is enough to qualify.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

DB characters are really hurting for hax huh

I agree with Null

 

[XXKINGXX69]

They call it "divine power" because it is the Ki used by dieties, but it does not exhibit any distinctly divine or sacred properties —

And? Its still divine

The method of how Vegeta got it is also irelevant, its still divine

Oh, so would you mind prove that God Ki can control Holy power????

Its divine

 

[Nullflowerblush]

"It does not have any divine properties."
"It's still divine."

 

[XXKINGXX69]

"It does not have any divine properties."
"It's still divine."

Prove it doesn't have divine properties

 

[Vietthai96]

Problem is, when did anything divine automatically mean holy???

 

[sanicspood]

Prove it doesn't have divine properties

Why are you asking him to prove a negative

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Holy Manipulation is, in short, the ability to manipulate divine or sacred energy and/or objects pertaining to such forces. It is a very broad term that has a variety of applications and frequently intersects with Light Manipulation, Healing, Magic, and other abilities generally considered to fall under the "good" or "lawful". Due to its nature, it is often extremely effective against those deemed "evil" or "monstrous", serving as a weakness to many characters under those categories. Due its connotations, it can most frequently be found on characters based on the Christian faith or some other application, such as Angels, Monotheistic Gods, Saints, Crusaders, Priests.

Apparently, if a power is described as "godly", it automatically falls under Holy Manipulation because the page describes it as a "broad term".

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Just reading the definition, Godly ki fits it verbatim. So I believe it's justified to ask for a reason why God ki doesn't qualify for the power.

 

[StekFence]

Reading the justification again, ig I kinda agree, although not sure something like God ki would be very effective on say, a demon anymore then blasting it normally. God ki doesn’t really have any special properties from normal ki. It’s stronger, harder to sense, and harder to get. U could have just named it Super ki and it would work fine.

 

[Vietthai96]

fall under the "good" or "lawful", often extremely effective against those deemed "evil" or "monstrous"

Sorry but God Ki, never displaying these thing

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

God Ki is nothing more than more advanced ki that is undetecable to lesser beings than Gods

It literally doesn't have anything Holy about it, especially since Gods can be evil as well (Zamasu/Black/Fused Zamasu). In the manga Kid Buu had God Ki as well after Good Buu was freed from Super Buu's body (in the DBS Manga) but he never tapped into it

 

[Quantu]

Yeah there's no evidence to say God Ki is anything other than a more advanced version of the norm

 

[LeSupremeKing1]

Sorry but God Ki, never displaying these thing

i love how u cherry picked a very small part of the definition that didn't matter and used it as a refutation lmfao

it doesn't say that it NEEDS to be good or lawful or effective against evil, it just says it NORMALLY is.
So yeah i'd agree with this thread since it fits the definition, although this wiki probably needs to revise its definition for holy manip because so many things can qualify for it

 

[XXKINGXX69]

God Ki is nothing more than more advanced ki that is undetecable to lesser beings than Gods

It literally doesn't have anything Holy about it, especially since Gods can be evil as well (Zamasu/Black/Fused Zamasu). In the manga Kid Buu had God Ki as well after Good Buu was freed from Super Buu's body (in the DBS Manga) but he never tapped into it

It is directly stated to be divine though

Yeah there's no evidence to say God Ki is anything other than a more advanced version of the norm

I already showed evidence that it is said to be divine, which by definition is holy manipulation

Sorry but God Ki, never displaying these thing

It doesn't need to display them. That's just some things that holy manipulation can have a lot of the time, not that it needs it. Divine power is enough

 

[Vizer04]

Hard disagree with this, nothing implies thi type of Ki is "holy" or something like that

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Hard disagree with this, nothing implies thi type of Ki is "holy" or something like that

It only needs to be divine to qualify, and its stated to be divine

 

[Vizer04]

It only needs to be divine to qualify, and its stated to be divine

It doesn't meet any of the criteria to be considered "divine". You could just call it Super Ki and it would work just fine.

 

[LeSupremeKing1]

It doesn't meet any of the criteria to be considered "divine". You could just call it Super Ki and it would work just fine.

its stated to be divine. the "criteria" you are referring to is what they believe holy manipulation normally works, not the way it must work.

 

[Vizer04]

Holy manipulation is just godly power, as long as its good, not evil

Bruh, what about Zamasu?

 

[XXKINGXX69]

It doesn't meet any of the criteria to be considered "divine". You could just call it Super Ki and it would work just fine.

What criteria are you talking about? There isnt any criteria

Bruh, what about Zamasu?

I can tell you didnt even read the OP and the scans

 

[LeSupremeKing1]

laughs in zamasu being stated to be a fundamentally good person by akira toriyama

 

[XXKINGXX69]

I mean Zamasu was right so he should have holy manip based of that alone

 

[Vizer04]

I mean Zamasu was right so he should have holy manip based of that alone

????????

 

[StekFence]

I agree, but only cos the definition of holy manip is kinda ass.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

beerus is not a good guy

 

[Vizer04]

I agree, but only cos the definition of holy manip is kinda ass.

Yeah, we really need a better definition for that

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Huh, I think 99% of deities qualify for the current definition of Holy Manipulation

 

[Jibz]

Alr from here i see two things:

a) If it merely being described as "divine" is enough for holy manip, despite it not showing any features of holy manip in a battle sense (hax, more effective against evil etc) then we really need to change our definition of holy manip

B) If merely being described as "divine" is not enough for holy manip, this post should be denied.

So either, this post is wrong, or the definition of holy manip is wrong and should be changed. Either way Goku and god ki users aint getting holy manip.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

It is directly stated to be divine though

So what? It never showed these properties

I already showed evidence that it is said to be divine, which by definition is holy manipulation

The fact it is called "divine" doesn't mean Holy manip when it shows none of the abilities Holy manip has

It doesn't need to display them. That's just some things that holy manipulation can have a lot of the time, not that it needs it. Divine power is enough

You need to display them, as in almost all cases (if not all) those who use Holy magic can directly do all of these abilities

Also as I said, Holy = Good Alignment, while God Ki can be used for both good and evil

 

[Dalesean027]

Can we like get some staff input here and I'd say gather scans to help prove the case for holy manip

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Holy manipulation doesn't even have criteria. It's literally just the ability to control divine power. God ki fits this. Unless there is something that definition doesn't cover.