Giygas vs Dark Dragon

[Quibster]

Giygas vs Dark Drago

I'm probably going to regret this. Have mercy. Please.

Both are low 2-C

Speed is equalized

Unsealed Giygas is being used

The Dark Dragon is awakened

Evil Space Baby: 0

Sleeping Universal Nuke: 0

Nessconclusive: 0

 

[TheQuirkyBoy]

Well, Dark Dragon could certainly kill Giygas Via Conceptual Manipulation...

Thing is, DD doesn't resist any of Giygas's Passive's. Meaning this is probably a stomp.

 

[Quibster]

I have a feeling that this might end up as an inconclusive due to the Dark Dragon being able to "Completely end the concept of evil from the universe". Giygas is stated to be the embodiment of evil, but I don't know if concept and embodiment are the same thing.

 

[TheQuirkyBoy]

Yeah, Giygas should be affected by this. But like I said, if it weren't for the Passive hax (Void Manipulation and Mind Manipulation), Dark Dragon would take this.

But this is a stomp since DD does not resist.

Also was Giygas supposed to be in Mother 3?

 

[Quibster]

No clue. It's still a mystery as to whether or not Porkey was still under Giygas' influence, or was acting on his own.

 

[Quibster]

I changed it to where the Dark Dragon Awakens. Would Giygas's passive Void Manip swallow a universal reset?

 

[TheQuirkyBoy]

He's evil and mischief is all I can say. But in the inside, I'm sure he misses Ness.

Anyway, this should be closed.

 

[TheQuirkyBoy]

I changed it to where the Dark Dragon Awakens. Would Giygas's passive Void Manip swallow a universal reset?

Giygas still stomps since his mind and Void hax are Passive while Dark Dragon's abilities are active.

Meaning just with his presence alone, he stomps. DD doesn't have anything like that, his is activated through waking up.

 

[Quibster]

Also, it's unknown whether or not Giygas's lolmindhax would work on DD. For all we know, DD awakens and resets the universe automatically upon awakening. It's never mentioned in the game whether or not DD even has a mind. (Correct me if I'm wrong).

 

[TheQuirkyBoy]

If it doesn't have a mind, it wouldn't be able to use its abilities. DD doesn't resist Void hax or Mind hax.

 

[Quibster]

Not true. There are many characters in many verses that are mindless and use abilities. Also, according to DD's profile, DD's universal reset is Void Manipulation.

 

[Quibster]

Explain to me how void manipulation nulls void manipulation.

 

[TheQuirkyBoy]

Well, no where in Mother 3 does it state it doesn't have a mind. And even if it didn't have a mind, Giygas can still take control of non sentient and mindless beings.

Please, just admit that this is a stomp.

 

[TheQuirkyBoy]

Explain to me how void manipulation nulls void manipulation.

As I said many times before, Giygas's Void Manipulation is Passive while Dark Dragon is activated. Dark Dragon would get erased/mind hax'd In the beginning of the fight. DD can't react that quickly and lacks resistance.

There's a clear difference here, bud.

So please, just admit that this is a stomp...

 

[Quibster]

You're talking about Sealed Giygas. During the fight with the Kids, Unsealed Giygas showed no signs of using Mindhax. He would have to possess a mind in order to perform mindhax, which, in this form, he has none. Even Pokey says "Giygas cannot think rationally anymore, and he isn't even aware of what he is doing now. His own mind was destroyed by his incredible power. What an all-mighty idiot!"

To further prove this, during the cutscenes while the kids were praying, we see all of Ness's friends and family perfectly sane. If Giygas had mindhax in this form, wouldn't he stop his friend and family from praying? Y'know, since he can affect the present from the past. After all, he foresaw his defeat in the Apple of Enlightment. Pretty sure he'd use mindhax in that scenario. But he didn't.

Giygas cannot use mindhax in this form, nor has he used it in said form. He is an unstable 4-D being who cannot control his power.

I plan on making a CRT to fix this later.

 

[TheQuirkyBoy]

Oh my goodness, Did you completely forget that Ness was one with the universe? We can simply assume that Ness was protecting them all since we can't have the others have Low 2-C durability because they can tank hits from Giygas. An addition to this, the battle took place in the past, not in the present.

 

[Unoriginal_Memes]

You don't have to have a mind to use Mind Manipulation.

 

[Quibster]

"We can simply Assume"

No, we can't assume, we have to prove it. Better safe than sorry. Are you suggesting that Ness's friends and family also have TOTU? Might as well make profiles for them too.

"You don't have to have a mind to use mind manipulation"

Dude. No where in the game do we see this form of Giygas use mindhax. And yes, you do need a mind to use mindhax. Don't make those kinds of claims without proof.

Every single character that uses mind manipulation has a mind.

In this form, Giygas has no mind, therefore, he shouldn't have passive mindhax

 

[Quibster]

@Quirky I was implying that Unsealed Giygas's mindhax was able to affect people from the past(where he is) to the present (where the kids are). Even when Giygas isn't in the present (I wasn't implying that he was in the present at any point in the game).

 

[Unoriginal_Memes]

Where does it ever say that? There is no standard that you have to have a mind to use Mind hax. Just because most characters who use it have minds doesn't mean that you absolutely have to have a mind to use it.

 

[Quibster]

I'm pretty sure a mind-based ability requires a mind. It's only logical dude.

 

[Unoriginal_Memes]

No, it's not. Not in any sense.

 

[Quibster]

I've already made a CRT. We'll solve this, hopefully. The forum will decide on this matter.

 

[TheQuirkyBoy]

@Quibster (Sigh) For peep sake...Are we seriously going to derail with this nonsense?

Are you trying to tell me that Paula, Jeff, Poo have Low 2-C durability just because they can take hits from Giygas? Absolutely not; this is a Living Universe (One that Giygas attempted to take control of but failed due to Ness overcoming his influences) vs a Cosmic Entity we are talking about. Either we say it's PIS, TOTU has some form of involvement, or that Ness is protecting them (Which makes the most sense as this is the same reason why the others do not have Resistance to Void Manipulation, but Ness does. This should be the case here). See, during the duration of the game, Giygas's influence started to consume the minds of and give powers to Human's, Inanimate objects, Spirits/Ghosts, Zombies, and Animal's. This is said throughout Earthbound beginnings and Earthbound. We see that Ness and the gang aren't affected by this, but later on it's revealed that Giygas's influence started to take an toll on Ness's own mind and consciousness, so he has to go to Magicant to overpower it, of which he did and became more powerful because of it. Throughout the entire game, you are fighting those who are influenced by Giygas, this piece of info is obvious.

> "Are you suggesting that Ness's friends and family also have TOTU? Might as well make profiles for them too."

I'm sorry, but where did you get that idea from? When have I ever implied this idea? No. That's absolutely ridiculous and completely fallacious too.

Also like, you're just saying "No Mind = No Mind hax". If he's mindless, then why is he able to use PK? AKA Mind-based attacks. When was it ever said that Giygas is completely mindless? He's nearly mindless, read the profile. There's a clear difference to that. Further more, what good is mind hax if Ness has Resistance, this is the final battle here; Universe vs Cosmic Entiy.

 

[Quibster]

Unsealed Giygas has never used PK, nor has he displayed the ability to use PK. You keep referring to Sealed Giygas, who has Mindhax, and the ability to use PK. I'm implying that Unsealed Giygas doesn't have mindhax, or the ability to use PK. PK requires a mind to use as well, which Unsealed Giygas didn't have or use

Nearly mindless? Pokey states that his mind has been destroyed. Don't rely on this wiki all the time. Rely on what the game itself says, not what other people say

 

[TheQuirkyBoy]

Yes he does, it's literally displayed on his Notable attacks and technique. I'm referring to both, actually. Quit misinterpreting on what I'm trying to say here.

Unsealed Giygas is nearly mindless, not fully, he is also able to use Psychic abilities/PSI.

Your proof here is just honestly lacking a lot. No offense. Really? Just some random quote from Pokey? How would he know? Giygas is still capable of speaking and is fully aware of who he is fighting (which is proven by the fact that he calls on Ness a lot. And that also really contradicts what Pokey states), meaning he does have a bit of his mind intact. Key word "A bit".

 

[The_Coolest_Water_Bottle]

@TheQuirkyBoy. You himself told me that Giygas stomps the Dragon, right?

 

[TheQuirkyBoy]

Yup! If only there was a statement in the game that The Dark Dragon was superior to Giygas.

Oh yeah, that reminds me. Remember when Dark Dragon was full on 2-C and had the justification of it being legit superior to Giygas? Good times...