Giving Characters Statistics With Zero Scaling

[Agnaa]

According to WeeklyBattles, some verses on the wiki have characters given the verse's speed rating even if they're never shown as being comparable to anyone else in the verse.

I'm not talking about featless characters that are shown as comparable to others scaling to them. I'm talking about characters with zero scaling, scaling to the rest of the cast since the cast is at a similar level.

An example of this is apparently Hajrudi from One Piece.

Is this something we do on the wiki as a whole? Because if so, I know I'll need to revise a lot of verses I work on to upgrade characters.

As a bonus, is this a written rule anywhere? And what exactly are the limits of it?

 

[Wokistan]

I mean I was personally under the impression that there had to be actual scaling. Otherwise everyone in Hotline Miami would have the speed of Jacket (Hotline Miami) and the lifting strength of Pig Butcher.

 

[Agnaa]

I was under that impression too, that's why Monogatari isn't universal 9-A and Supersonic.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

I mostly agree with the OP.

I'd also like to point out that "should be as powerful as X" shouldn't be justification for a tier on its own as well, something I see around the site a lot and and admittedly guilty of using in some of my own profiles.

 

[Andytrenom]

This shouldn't be a thing unless there's canonical information proving that everyone would be comparable.

If there isn't actual scaling the characters should just be unknown.

 

[DMUA]

I'd also like to point out that "should be as powerful as X" shouldn't be justification for a tier on its own as well, something I see around the site a lot and and admittedly guilty of using in some of my own profiles.

I think it's fine within reasonability, IE, if the person shouldn't be immensely weaker then someone else of comparable talent

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Yeah, there should always be some sort of actual scaling or at least statements of being comparable as opposed to something being entirely theoretical. I am not familiar enough with One Piece to say what the case is here, though.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

NNT does this as well apparently

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

I'd also like to point out that "should be as powerful as X" shouldn't be justification for a tier on its own as well, something I see around the site a lot and and admittedly guilty of using in some of my own profiles.

I think it's fine within reasonability, IE, if the person shouldn't be immensely weaker then someone else of comparable talent

Yeah, I agree. Mostly just talking about instances where there isn't really anything other than speculation.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

If they have no feats, statements, comparisons to other characters, or literally nothing at all; then they really should just be Unknow in general.

 

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

Technically Hajurdin should scale to Franky and Doffy's lower tier executives. We're still in the middle of revising the profiles.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

If they have no feats, statements, comparisons to other characters, or literally nothing at all; then they really should just be Unknow in general.

this tbh. there should be an actual scaling chain or smth even if its only one

 

[Agnaa]

Technically Hajurdin should scale to Franky and Doffy's lower tier executives. We're still in the middle of revising the profiles.

I'm not familiar with any verses that apparently do this, so you very well could be right on this part.

I've heard that One Piece, FT, NNT, Dragon Ball, Naruto, and Bleach all do this sort of thing sometimes, but I'm not familiar with any so I can't really confirm.

 

[RatherClueless]

Cough Adventure Time cough

 

[Antvasima]

Yeah, there should always be some sort of actual scaling or at least statements of being comparable as opposed to something being entirely theoretical.

I agree with Azathoth.

 

[Antvasima]

Cough Adventure Time cough

To a casual viewer like myself, our Adventure Time statistics largely seem extremely exaggerated, as the verse seems to run on Plot-Induced Stupidity of "almost anybody can fight almost anybody", but that is based on incredulity, not an informed opinion.

 

[Agnaa]

I agree with Azathoth.

According to Weekly this would require some sort of wide-scale revisions on the popular shounen verses, but I haven't heard any specifics about exactly which pages.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

There are a lot of popular shonen verses, and verses in general, that unfortunately use this logic yes

 

[Antvasima]

Well, we are only referring to complete guesswork scaling, not if there is a some kind of logical basis.

 

[The_Calaca]

While it's true that most Shonen verses apply this, it's also true that in said verses the most common thing is watching a "common power scale" between the characters where X does a thing and then Y fights him. Some chapters later Z does a thing to Y that warrants a scaling for him, rinse and repeat.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

If there's a legit A > B > C guide and or source, then the scalings are fine, but it needs to be elaborated and/or sourced on profile. If there's literally nothing at all period; such as a character who literally never fought nor had any details of being powerful, then Unknow would be better.

 

[Agnaa]

While it's true that most Shonen verses apply this, it's also true that in said verses the most common thing is watching a "common power scale" between the characters where X does a thing and then Y fights him. Some chapters later Z does a thing to Y that warrants a scaling for him, rinse and repeat.

That's not the "zero scaling" I was thinking of.

 

[The_Calaca]

Then I don't get your case here (at least when it comes to OP which is the verse I know the most and it's tagged here).

 

[Antvasima]

I removed the One Piece tags.

 

[The_Calaca]

For the record, I know the case. In OP for example we had some characters with ratings based on assumptions (I.e. Orlumbus) until we discussed about that and put the Unknown instead.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Shonen are like, the last thing that should get this kind of scaling, given how varied power levels can be there, meaning there is no one singular power level that everyone should be on.

I guess it would depend on the verse. Having a character well known for being bottom tier have a feat of X level would probably mean that most characters shown to be capable of combat should at least scale to other character. Or if everyone who can even remotely fight have the same stastistics, then scaling to characters who don't explictly scale could work.

It just really depends on the fiction imo. Generally, actual scaling would be needed, but if doing otherwise would result in a character being assumed to be thousands of times weaker than everyone else despite being treated as the same, then it could become problematic.

 

[Sera_EX]

"Should be comparable to" for both AP and Speed are found all throughout the site without proper scaling. However, do remember that many of our pages are still outdated and without someone knowledgeable about the verse, we can't exactly revise them other than putting them at "Unknown".

 

[Kaltias]

"Should be comparable" is fine if there are actual implications of that.

For example if an 8-B is concerned about someone being able to kill them in a fight, logically the other guy should be 8-B as well (unless they have durability negation or something, but for the sake of the example let's say that they don't).

But obviously you can't scale a character from someone else if you literally don't know if they are comparable or not.

 

[Sera_EX]

@Kaltias

Exactly, but I think they mean like:

An 8-B is on a team with two other persons, so all three are 8-B because the teammates "should be comparable" to the one with the 8-B feat. Nothing suggests teammates have to be comparable in strength. It's like saying all the Justice League has to scale to Superman because they're on his team.

If that 8-B says they are comparable or other characters imply or infer they are comparable, then they can scale. But the stat description shouldn't say "should be comparable to", especially if that Tier is "Likely" or "Probably" and just outright is.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

For example if an 8-B is concerned about someone being able to kill them in a fight, logically the other guy should be 8-B as well

I mean, the point is that what you just wrote should be on the profile as opposed to just "Should be comparable to X" or "X via powerscaling".

 

[Kaltias]

Sure, although that's more an issue of the scaling not being explained which is a different issue.

What I was trying to say is that some kind of reason to scale is needed, if it's literally a guesswork it can't be done

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Yeah, various Shonen Verses do have their various distinctions between god tiers, bottom tiers and every where in between. And same with characters being this strong at this time period and so on.

 

[Agnaa]

@Weekly What sort of changes need to be made from this?