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Giorno Giovanna vs Itachi Uchiha

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The same thing that we presented? Changes to the body get reverted.

Taking a middle aged man to resurrect a child is very much possible, and the outcome is still a child.

And again, does the stand literally take away Giorno's ability to go away? Will he be plain stopped if he tries to leave?

And wasn't the infinite loop something that got activated once and then just got stuck that way? I swear that's how I remember it.
 
>I doubt that his stand would plain make Giorno unable to do what he wishes, and I also find the idea of the stand just leaving Giorno behind to stay with Itachi if the former left.

It's more like Giorno would never get a chance to, Giorno doesn't even know what his Stand does or that it's sentient and seperate from him. If GER uses RTZ on a wide scale, Giorno wouldnt even realize any time has passed.

Also dude, there's Stands that have straight up went against their user's wish directly, who knows what GER would say if Giorno's goal conflicted with his? He has the ability to make Giorno a non issue.
 
Chariot190 said:
Yes and that resistance stems from the regen does it not? And if that regen can be made to never fully transpire. What's preventing it?
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Giorno will need to constantly negateit/return it to zero, which means he can't win because incapacitating only counts if you don't need to actively keep it up. (And by actively, I mean applying the effect. The fact that requiem is passive doesn't change that).
 
Chariot190 said:
>I doubt that his stand would plain make Giorno unable to do what he wishes, and I also find the idea of the stand just leaving Giorno behind to stay with Itachi if the former left.

It's more like Giorno would never get a chance to, Giorno doesn't even know what his Stand does or that it's sentient and seperate from him. If GER uses RTZ on a wide scale, Giorno wouldnt even realize any time has passed.

Also dude, there's Stands that have straight up went against their user's wish directly, who knows what GER would say if Giorno's goal conflicted with his? He has the ability to make Giorno a non issue.
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I am aware certain stands do that, main exemple is cheap trick, but that still doesn't change the fact that majority don't.

Plus, how would RtZ interact with Izanagi (same effect as RtZ, makes anything about the user they want simply not real anymore). And is there a reason why the thing couldn't be mindhaxed if it is so autonomous? There are AoE genjutsu that don't actually need you to see the opponent.
 
>And wasn't the infinite loop something that got activated once and then just got stuck that way? I swear that's how I remember it.

Not unless you think that the moment RTZ is applied to something, whenever that something happens again, it'll automatically be RTZ'd again seperatefrom everything else without GER's manual input.

Which is a **** ton more broken and wouldn't matter if Giorno left because Itachi would be stuck be RTZ'd forever everytime he tried to do something.
 
No, I mean the death loop itself, at difference of the other abilities, was treated that way. Some of the scans I saw about that specifically seemed to really say that.

If it doesn't though, a lot of threads assume it is. If it isn't it makes a not viable way to incapacitate someone.
 
>And is there a reason why the thing couldn't be mindhaxed if it is so autonomous?

What are you talking about? GER is sentient, is that what you mean? Memory loss is just a byproduct of whatever happened never happened so the memories that were made didn't happen because they were made after the point things got RTZ'd. Wouldn;t say it's mindhax unless you think ******* time travel or time rewind is mindhax too.

>how would RtZ interact with Izanagi

Probably override it completely given it has drastically better feats?
 
What feats make it so drastically better? From all I know, it is simply causuality manipulation. Specifically erasing causality. Nothing it has done is outside of that,or much beyond what is expected of that.
 
And no, you misinterpreted what I said completely. I asked why some of the aoe mindhax Itachi has couldn't affect the stand as well.
 
>No, I mean the death loop itself, at difference of the other abilities, was treated that way. Some of the scans I saw about that specifically seemed to really say that.

The death loop itself is literally the same ability as everything else, the only scan that mentions the death loop merely says that if hit with the ability, even theyre death can be set to zero It's not a seperate thing, merely an application of it's main power. He's setting the death to 0 so it'll never happen. In which case we have two options. 1. It's manual or 2. Once GER RTZ's something, it'll stay like that and when that action occurs again, the thing in question will be set back prior to before that action or thing would occur.

>If it doesn't though, a lot of threads assume it is. If it isn't it makes a not viable way to incapacitate someone.

No thread assumes that, mostly because no GER thread is the death loop actually a factor because he's put up agains characters he often cant initiate it for.
 
> And no, you misinterpreted what I said completely. I asked why some of the aoe mindhax Itachi has couldn't affect the stand as well.

Because it'd be RTZ'd before it actually takes effect?
 
>What feats make it so drastically better? From all I know, it is simply causuality manipulation. Specifically erasing causality. Nothing it has done is outside of that,or much beyond what is expected of that.

How about RTZ'ing universal time erase, which is infinitely better than Izanagi. And looking through all the GER crts, we treat that as a legit feat, the only reason why he doesn't have a tier for it is because I guess some admins didn't want to give a hax ability a tier, but said feat is still legit, probably why the profile specifies GER is 8-C physically too.
 
Ricsi-viragosi said:
Then inconclusive, I guess. Giorno can't incapacitate, and Itachi can't affect him.
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Yes, like every other GER thread. Being GER is suffering. I have never seen a GER thread since I joined that hasn't been an inconclusive because nobody can do **** all to each other. Or Ger gets gimped because the opponent is acasual.
 
> And his soul just transmutate the body back, because that's how Edo Tensei works.

I'm pretty sure Edo Tensei just repairs damage; it can't undo being transmuted into a different form as far as I'm aware.

Some permanent effects can alter the Edo Tensei's form; Itachi sacrificed his right eye for example to use the Izanami for example and the Edo Tensei jutsu did not return him to a state before he sacrified his eye.
 
So is transmutation back on the table? Or...?
 
I don't really wanna go around in circles so I'll give the votes now.

If transmutation works then voting GER. If not then it's inconclusive.

Which one? Don't know, depends entirely on if it would work or not.
 
Damage3245 said:
> And his soul just transmutate the body back, because that's how Edo Tensei works.

I'm pretty sure Edo Tensei just repairs damage; it can't undo being transmuted into a different form as far as I'm aware.

Some permanent effects can alter the Edo Tensei's form; Itachi sacrificed his right eye for example to use the Izanami for example and the Edo Tensei jutsu did not return him to a state before he sacrified his eye.
Click to expand...
I mean, I feel that is more about the limitation of Edo as far as the eyeballs go. Madara even said his rinmegan was inferior as an Edo Tensei, and being resurrected left him with the Hashirama cells and other upgrades but not with the eyes.
 
>He still is a biological thing.

And GER can transmute things like arms, hands, teeth, blood, fingers, etc. It being biological doesn't mean anything, It has to be explicitely alive. And he's listed as Immortality type 7.
 
These are the victory conditions, right?:

> Death of the opponent, removing the opponent from the battlefield for at least one week (BFR), knocking the opponent out for at least one hour, or incapacitating the opponent by putting him in a state in which he can not harm the other fighter(s) for over a day, are to be assumed as victory conditions.

I'm pretty sure that Giorno would win this under the last condition.

Also, can't Stands attack souls as proven by Rohan using his Stand on the ghost of Reimi? So Giorno's GER could hypothetically attack Giorno's soul.
 
So? He's possesing the body, the body itself isn't alive, it's just random matter. Which GER can transmute.

Hell we already know that simply possesing a body doesn't qualify you as being alive in JoJo, see Bruno ignoring Green Day. If Giorno knew he was undead, if he wanted to, he could have turned Bruno into a mass of flowers even though his soul was controlling the body. Same thing here, Itachi's possesing the body, but the body isn't alive, especially if he's undead. Either he's not undead and GER can't work, or he's undead and is considered not alive and he GER would work. It can't be both now.
 
The last one can't be done by actively keeping them there. It has been discussed already, and I cap only counts if you use an ability or do something and the enemy is unable to do things for a day. Actively undoing what he does over and over doesn't count.
 
>Also, can't Stands attack souls as proven by Rohan using his Stand on the ghost of Reimi?

Or Killer Queen's bomb killing a ghost and destroying whoever is hit by it down to even their soul, or Stands punching other Stands in the face given theyre the soul as confirmed by Part 5, 6 and 7. Among other things here and there.
 
> It has been discussed already

Yes It has been discussed alreadyi,with no actual answer to it yet.

Mind you, GER ca RTZ specific things, Diavolo's death is a huge example of that, everytime Diavolo's death is reset, the whole universe ain't put back in time, only Diavolo is being RTZ'd. GER also seemingly RTZ's Giorno offscreen to heal him from his cracked skull.
 
>An Edo Tensei's soul part only comes out when the bodies are destroyed, and that isn't happening here.

Intagibility my dude.

Or transmutation given that's still seemingly an option.
 
What do you mean? The hthread about incapacitating was nearly unanimous about incap not counting if the character has to actively keep it up.
 
Except, mind you, and you brought this up yourself but, if we are to believe that GER didn't manually RTZ'd Diavolo after each death, it means that RTZ becomes automatic after the first RTZ onto an action, GER RTZ'd Diavolo's death, now every death after that is RTZ'd and will never happen.

So, by that logic what's stopping GER from RTZ'ing Itachi moving, and then everytime he tries to move again he gets RTZ'd again automatically?

It's one or the other dude, and you were arguing for the automatic after first usage earlier.
 
You told me I was wrong. And I believed that this would only apply to the death loop regardless. Regardless of who was right, it would not be applicable to this fight. If you are saying all RtZs loop then that should be make clearer on the profile.

I wasn't arguing for it. I brought it up, and you said I was wrong. I then said that I got the impression of that being true from other threads.
 
Actually I said it was either or. What I did say you were outright wrongon was the his death loop is a seperate power, it isnt, in fact it's explicitly said to be apart of his main power.

>If you are saying all RtZs loop then that should be make clearer on the profile.

Who knows, it's one or the other, either GER did it all manually or after his first RTZ, the action he RTZ becomes automaticaly RTZ'd each time it would normally happen or occur again. It's one or the other, it isn't both, but it's absolutely one of the two.

> I then said that I got the impression of that being true from other threads.

tbh I dont even know where youd get that impression because GER is never put up against any character where his death loop would be brought up, because he can never kill them (Well technically GER doesn't kill, what he needs is for them to be in the process of dying, which he then RTZ's the exact moment before they die, making it so they never fully die so they can die again and again because they nevr reach the end result of death).

Regardless, from what I can tell, transmutation would work, because either it would work or Itachi needs his undead immortality snipped. If he's undead than it's fair game.
 
Firephoenixearl said:
Automatic after the 1st usage ain't happening. He has to consciously do it.
Click to expand...
Ok then outliving Giorno isnt an option, because he put Diavolo through a death loop for all of eternity, meaning at the very least GER aint dying any time soon and GER walking away from a fight isnt a option because he's willing to manually **** with someone for all of time.
 
GER is the one that reverts things if they threaten Giorno, it doesn't happen passively.What if Itachi Mind Haxes both GER and Giorno?
 
Slacjow said:
GER is the one that reverts things if they threaten Giorno, it doesn't happen passively.What if Itachi Mind Haxes both GER and Giorno?
Click to expand...
You're implying Itachi would even get the chance. Also Itachi can't even see GER.
 
I thought stands fall under verse equalization.

Why wouldn't Itachi get the chance?Genjutsu is his go to move in literally any battle.And if I am not mistaken Itachi can see souls.
 
Not for awhile last I checked, well yeah they are, but not by default, actually has to be a reason for it to be equalized. And JoJo has a thing that Chakra would be equalized to, and it aint Stands. Rather it would be life energy, which is ironically, what Hamon uses but also the energy GE uses to transmute objects or sense things. Only thing getting equalized here is Chakra and the energy GER manipulates to do things like age manip, sense and transmute.

Because why would GER let his opponent do anything? GER isn't one to **** around, and he's going to be faster on the draw here given his range and instant activation with quite literally zero delay.

>Itachi can see souls.

Pretty sure not even ghosts can see Stands if they don't already have a Stand so...
 
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