Ghost Rider (MCU) vs. The Avengers (Age of Ultron)

[Dargoo_Faust]

I realized that with the hax GR has and him noping the Avengers' best hax, this is actually an interesting matchup.

Speed isn't equal. GR is bloodlusted and starts with his flames on. Battle takes place on Sokovia, as it floats mid-air, 20m away. Hawkeye, Black Widow, Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch (New Powers), Captain America (Base), Hulk (Pre-Sakaar), Thor (Base), and Iron Ma (In the Mark XLIII, can call on the Hulkbuster during the fight) and Vision are present.

Ghost Rider (Marvel Cinematic Universe) -

The Avengers as of Age of Ultron -

Incon -

 

[AnonymousBlank]

I can't believe you actually made this.

 

[DarkGrath]

How exactly does Ghost Rider's Soul Manip work? Because if it is really easily applicable here, that would make this a pretty fair match. But against all of the Avengers at once, some with comparable AP, it would otherwise be pretty stomp-ish.

 

[GyroNutz]

Pretty sure his soul manip is penance stare

 

[The_Impress]

Would the penance stare even work on Vision and Thor? I'd reckon being considered worthy makes them immune to guilt, especially Vision

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Thor has many things, but not "immunity to guilt".

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Being worthy should do nothing to stop it. Vision also isn't worthy as he never recieved the power of Thor but Vision should ignore the Stare just from being a robot.

 

[Nico-v11]

Ghost Rider's soul mania iirc is his hellfire burning you alive. He's burned intangible beings in such a way before. They weren't spirits but more like people caught between dimensions and such couldn't be hurt through regular means....yeah he just burned them alive.

 

[The_Impress]

Wait, how does it work again? In the comics it was about reverting all of the pain you regret causing in the past, back onto you. If it's a similiar thing here, I think Vision's kinda scot free if this is before Civil War since he was just made and as such hasn't done any harm to anyone (except like, Ultron, but I doubt Vis regrets it.)

 

[Nico-v11]

From what I remember he doesn't have penance stare. Not sure where people are getting that from.

 

[Nico-v11]

Anyway all of the humans of the avengers can't do jack to him and Vision's intangibility is outright useless along with perhaps the magical attacks of Thor (although just hitting Robbie with mjolnir should of course do damage).

Honestly Iron Man and Hulk are the best match up against Robbie.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Ghost Rider actually negates magic pretty hard, so Thor would be a pretty terrible matchup.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Do we treat Thor as using magic? They say pretty often that he doesn't use magic and that its just advanced science.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

They say pretty often that he doesn't use magic and that its just advanced science.

No.

Look -- your ancestors called it magic. You call it science. I come from a place where they're one and the same thing.
	~ Thor​

As in, they combine scince with magic. We also see that there is a seperate "Magic" such as what Strange uses, and Asgardian sorcery like that used by Loki and Odin are similar, but different in that they utilize it with tech.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

But if science and magic are the same, then does Robbie just resist everything then?

 

[InfiniteSped]

In a world where magic exists, it should be a branch of science as well. Not everything related to science would count as magic.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

But if science and magic are the same, then does Robbie just resist everything then?

No, I mean Asgardia magic is combined with technology. It's still magic, they just use it in tandem with technology to make it more potent. Take the Bifrost for example, which can be summoned with dark sorcery but hardnessed and focused through technology in order to raze planets.

The MCU makes a more distinct divide between science and magic after Strange, and it's clear in Ragnarok through Loki's interactions with Strange that Asgardian sorcery is similar in kind to the sorcery that Strange practices.

 

[InfiniteSped]

Like both gravity and electromagnetism are parts of science, doesn't mean they're the same thing (at least I think they aren't, who knows these days . . .).

 

[The_Wright_Way]

No.

Look -- your ancestors called it magic. You call it science. I come from a place where they're one and the same thing.
	~ Thor​

As in, they combine scince with magic. We also see that there is a seperate "Magic" such as what Strange uses, and Asgardian sorcery like that used by Loki and Odin are similar, but different in that they utilize it with tech.

That quote honestly just looks like it means that their tech is so advanced that it was mistaken for magic.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

^

Thats what I took away from it. Even in the Dark World, Jane recognizes the soul forge as technology on earth and even described what it does.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

That quote honestly just looks like it means that their tech is so advanced that it was mistaken for magic.

He's saying "our magic and technology is one and the same". Sure, the "technology is so advanced it's magic" interpretation is not unsupported, but recent films have turned their back on it now that sorcery is a more prominent aspect of the MCU.

Think of the infodumps in Thor as leaving open ends - Marvel Studios wasn't sure if they'd be developing the more fantastical elements of the comics like magic at that point, and so far they had been grounded in reality to an extent. Thus when they made Thor - a character who teeters on the line between magic and sorcery, they made an explaination that could be interpreted either way.

 

[The_Wright_Way]

Yeah, the stuff that Doctor Strange does seems pretty different from Thor's stuff. Again, we have scenes where Asgardian "magic" is shown to be technology (IE The Dark World). Doctor Strange doesn't contradict that.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Yeah, the stuff that Doctor Strange does seems pretty different from Thor's stuff. Again, we have scenes where Asgardian "magic" is shown to be technology (IE The Dark World). Doctor Strange doesn't contradict that.

I never said Doctor Strange contradicted that. I said Loki's interaction with Strange and Thor's interaction with Strange contradicted that. You can clearly tell that Loki is referring to Strange's sorcery as the same that he practices, and to add on to that, Loki weilds no technology that gives him his powers. Thor also mentions "Earth has wizards now", speaking as if Asgard has them as well.

In Infinity War you also see Heimdall use dark sorcery to call upon the Bifrost, when he had acess to none of the technology you would assume he typically needs to do so.

And of course in Dark World they refer to tech as magic because Asgard doesn't distinguish the two meaningfully. It doesn't mean that they are one in the same for them, though.

What Asgardians use is magic and technology combined, not technology that is sufficiently advanced to be considered magic. At best, the original interpretation of magic was left open to be expanded on by Doctor Strange, at worst, you have a minor retcon.