GGZ Yog Sothoth Tier 0 - Finalizing

[Antvasima]

Ihsjihahxu and Frans_Kadmon seem to make some valid points above. I am still uncertain about this.

 

[BreezeHM]

Yog Sothoth (Guns Girl Z)

Yog Sothoth is an Outer God of the franchise Houkai Gakuen 2 or Gun Girls Z. The Outer Gods, deities who reside beyond the space-time of the Universe have infinite wisdom, but due to that fact they also have endless loneliness. Here you can attain anything you want, except while attaining it...

vsbattles.fandom.com

most of your scans don't work, unless its on my end

 

[BleedingPeach]

Yog Sothoth (Guns Girl Z)

Yog Sothoth is an Outer God of the franchise Houkai Gakuen 2 or Gun Girls Z. The Outer Gods, deities who reside beyond the space-time of the Universe have infinite wisdom, but due to that fact they also have endless loneliness. Here you can attain anything you want, except while attaining it...

vsbattles.fandom.com

most of your scans don't work, unless its on my end

I've tried too and also it doesn't work.

 

[Frans_Kadmon]

"That? But... what if the God I believe in is Wisdom itself?"

I saw this, and if I'm connecting it correctly, it should link to this part in the raw scans:

“这样吗？但是……如果我相信的神就是智慧本身呢？”

I found it would be better to focus on this topic as supporting evidence for the Tier 0 discussion. Here, "Wisdom" is "智慧" which means deep knowledge and differs from normal "wisdom". And before that in the original raw scan, this explanation appears:

"大日之下，混然一泡而出，无智无得，状若琉璃，即现即隐。"

Here the word "泡" means "bubble". According to @Weaver261's explanation, Yog-Sothoth indicates it's her metaphorical device, followed by "无智无得" meaning "devoid of wisdom and attainment". But as seen, "智" here is similar to the form of "智慧" which is specified to be Yog-Sothoth herself (and lexically both translate to 'wisdom'), but these two words are different. This makes me want to see the scan for "Wisdom" as explained here by weaver:

In Yog Sothoth case, wisdom = omniscience. Wisdom not as a concept but rather all knowing existence. Wisdom is just an extension from her. It's the same as bubbles as they are showed together.

This should be able to expand on Yog-Sothoth being "Wisdom Itself" since as currently explained it's ambiguous and seems insubstantial. If there are feats or statements that can be used for additional explanation, it would be better to include them. (Additionally, if I've made any mistakes, please let me know)

Yog sothoth existing Wuji is just my theory based on Tao as entry 2 is directly referencing to Tao Te Ching. Entry 2 original chinese text is 道德泡经 meaning "dao de pao jing". Pao, if i'm not mistaken, means bubble. It's just Tao Te Ching but with bubbles. In my previous thread OP, i also cited some Tao Te Ching verses that are almost word to word with entry 2.
See? That's just Tao Te ching with bubbles. But I can understand your concerns. Wuji is the un-manifest aspect of Tao. Taiji is Tao in movement which result in yin and yang. While Wuji is Tao in stillness. The world behind the door is where time and space are not moving. Everything in the cosmo is governed by Yin and Yang. These are the two forces that move the cosmo. Then, it's safe to assume the world behind the door where time and space not moving is Wuji where these two are not moving. Wuji also metaphysically preceed Taiji. It's also stated in her description and entry 5 like "beyond the space-time of universe", "outside of space-time". I hope this clear things up.

Well, if that's really everything, honestly I don't quite agree with picking up concepts that just reference external sources in that verse without additional explanation from WoG. (And/or in-verse additional explanation)
Well, I think I've made my point clear enough since the previous post that weaver replied to. I disagree Yog-Sothoth's qualification for Tier 0 (regarding with having "space-time" in the domain of Tier 0).

 

[GarrixianXD]

I saw this, and if I'm connecting it correctly, it should link to this part in the raw scans:

I found it would be better to focus on this topic as supporting evidence for the Tier 0 discussion. Here, "Wisdom" is "智慧" which means deep knowledge and differs from normal "wisdom". And before that in the original raw scan, this explanation appears:

Here the word "泡" means "bubble". According to @Weaver261's explanation, Yog-Sothoth indicates it's her metaphorical device, followed by "无智无得" meaning "devoid of wisdom and attainment". But as seen, "智" here is similar to the form of "智慧" which is specified to be Yog-Sothoth herself (and lexically both translate to 'wisdom'), but these two words are different. This makes me want to see the scan for "Wisdom" as explained here by weaver:

智 is almost always used as a synonym for "wisdom" in Mandarin and Archaic Chinese. It correlates to knowledge and intellect under all context.

Well, if that's really everything, honestly I don't quite agree with picking up concepts that just reference external sources in that verse without additional explanation from WoG. (And/or in-verse additional explanation)
Well, I think I've made my point clear enough since the previous post that weaver replied to. I disagree Yog-Sothoth's qualification for Tier 0 (regarding with having "space-time" in the domain of Tier 0).

WoG is often extremely inaccurate and contradictory in the main lore; we do make exceptions for certain author explanations that are specifically from Q&A events, otherwise such practices are often not permitted. Not to mention we even have a rule against asking for WoG out of the blue for powerscaling intents.

 

[Frans_Kadmon]

智 is almost always used as a synonym for "wisdom" in Mandarin and Archaic Chinese. It correlates to knowledge and intellect under all context.

Thank?

WoG is often extremely inaccurate and contradictory in the main lore; we do make exceptions for certain author explanations that are specifically from Q&A events, otherwise such practices are often not permitted. Not to mention we even have a rule against asking for WoG out of the blue for powerscaling intents.

I think that's a normal thing. (You can provide information from in-verse if you want. At this point, I think it needs trends pointing in, not just from WoG but I also include statements, feats, etc. If there are any.)

 

[GarrixianXD]

I think that's a normal thing. (You can provide information from in-verse if you want. At this point, I think it needs trends pointing in, not just from WoG but I also include statements, feats, etc. If there are any.)

It's not about what you think, but how this community and our site treat the practice of using and obtaining WoG (as said before, not permitted). We have guidelines that generally go against the usage of WoG; except for information from Q&A events where we make brief exceptions of, which I've already said before, or if it's scrutinised to be 100 percent accurate which is rarely the case.

Regarding direct information from the author/creator of a character: We do not use statements from them that are phrased in an uncertain, uncaring, and/or unspecific manner, such as "Could be", "Maybe", "Probably", "Possibly" etcetera. Brief or vague answers to fan-questions via social media are also generally disregarded, whereas more elaborate explanations in serious interviews are usually considered more reliable.

Author statements will only be accepted when they clarify what has been shown or implied in the series itself, and will be rejected when they contradict what has been shown to the audience. Statements that technically do not contradict anything shown in the series will still be rejected if there is no evidence that they are accurate.

Do not pester or harass the authors of various works on social media about versus debating or character statistics. They are often bombarded by numerous questions from fans, and thus are rarely interested in giving a serious response. In addition, the statements they give to appease users are often contradictory to the feats in the stories of the works they have written. Thus, it is frowned upon to bother them over these topics.

As for me personally, I'm just outright neutral here; I'm not even sure if the overall thing presented on the OP is actually tier 0 since I don't know anything about tier 0; I only put special surveillance on this thread because on the last discussion, things got outrageously derailed and its my job to prevent it from happening again.

 

[Weaver261]

Here the word "泡" means "bubble". According to @Weaver261's explanation, Yog-Sothoth indicates it's her metaphorical device, followed by "无智无得" meaning "devoid of wisdom and attainment". But as seen, "智" here is similar to the form of "智慧" which is specified to be Yog-Sothoth herself (and lexically both translate to 'wisdom'), but these two words are different. This makes me want to see the scan for "Wisdom" as explained here by weaver:

Honestly, I find it really weird why is this even important in tier 0 part. It's clearly stated in entry 5 that bubbles are something Yog Sothoth likes, that's not what make Yog Sothoth. It comes from her. The same should go for wisdom too as it's listed alongside bubbles in her bio at hobbies list. It's just something she likes, not something that make Yog Sothoth. Yog Sothoth tier 0 comes from transcending descriptions or definitions. Not from wisdom. People see her as wisdom simply because she grants wisdom to them. It is already stated in blasphemous abyss avatar biography that "you may be able to get more wisdom from her". The believer of Yog Sothoth saying "what if the god I believe in is wisdom itself" is followed by that person talking truths which means that person gained wisdom from Yog Sothoth. That's why that person see Yog Sothoth as wisdom. It's even more clear when the same line have "the origin of wisdom" phrase, indicating wisdom comes from somewhere or someone. Wisdom comes from wisdom? C'mon..... it's obvious.

And for wuji stuffs, I have already told u that it's just theory. I am not saying it as it's something stated in game or something. That's just my take. Even without it, tier 0 is already enough. As for the world behind the door having space-time, i've read it again and again and found something interesting.
The wording goes like this, btw I am not chinese so if I made mistakes....I hope GarrianXD fix some along the way.

这里是门后的世界，时空都已在此停滞，唯有智慧尚存。

This is the world behind the door, where time and space have come to a standstill, and only wisdom remains.

In a place where outside of space-time or beyond space-time is the same as where time and space are frozen in a way. If you go from the place where time and space are moving and go outside of it, it's the same as both not moving anymore becuz you are outside of it. In Yog Sothoth's context, it's stated again and again about how it's "outside of space-time" and "beyond space-time". Then it aligns with this idea. I think it's just flowery word of time and space becoming standstill. There're like other statements of Yog Sothoth's power able to create worlds unconstrained by time and space.

 

[Frans_Kadmon]

It's not about what you think, but how this community and our site treat the practice of using and obtaining WoG (as said before, not permitted). We have guidelines that generally go against the usage of WoG; except for information from Q&A events where we make brief exceptions of, which I've already said before, or if it's scrutinised to be 100 percent accurate which is rarely the case.


As for me personally, I'm just outright neutral here; I'm not even sure if the overall thing presented on the OP is actually tier 0 since I don't know anything about tier 0; I only put special surveillance on this thread because on the last discussion, things got outrageously derailed and its my job to prevent it from happening again.

I'm fine with that because it's just expressing my opinion on the rules of the wiki.

Honestly, I find it really weird why is this even important in tier 0 part. It's clearly stated in entry 5 that bubbles are something Yog Sothoth likes, that's not what make Yog Sothoth. It comes from her. The same should go for wisdom too as it's listed alongside bubbles in her bio at hobbies list. It's just something she likes, not something that make Yog Sothoth. Yog Sothoth tier 0 comes from transcending descriptions or definitions. Not from wisdom. People see her as wisdom simply because she grants wisdom to them. It is already stated in blasphemous abyss avatar biography that "you may be able to get more wisdom from her". The believer of Yog Sothoth saying "what if the god I believe in is wisdom itself" is followed by that person talking truths which means that person gained wisdom from Yog Sothoth. That's why that person see Yog Sothoth as wisdom. It's even more clear when the same line have "the origin of wisdom" phrase, indicating wisdom comes from somewhere or someone. Wisdom comes from wisdom? C'mon..... it's obvious.

I'm quite sure I never said it was important in the Tier 0 part. I just suggested that you may provide more detaii informations (because what I disagreed with was regarding having "space-time" in the domain of Tier 0) to make it more substantial. Additionally, that was also a request for the feat of this part::

In Yog Sothoth's case, wisdom = omniscience. Wisdom is not a concept but rather an all-knowing existence. Wisdom is just an extension of her. It's the same as bubbles, as they are shown together.

 

[Weaver261]

I'm fine with that because it's just expressing my opinion on the rules of the wiki.


I'm quite sure I never said it was important in the Tier 0 part. I just suggested that you may provide more detaii informations (because what I disagreed with was regarding having "space-time" in the domain of Tier 0) to make it more substantial. Additionally, I requested the feat for this part:

I think you are confused by the way I worded like "wisdom = omniscience. Wisdom is not a concept but rather an all-knowing existence". I'm just trying to say the same thing as I said above. She is not wisdom as a concept like you have seen in other fictions with cosmic entities being conceptual beings that represent something abstract. She is wisdom becuz well that's what she does. She gives wisdom to those who dared enough to seek it. If my wording has confused you, well I am not really good with english. As for wisdom being what she likes, you should check her description scan. I am not really free enough to re upload scans again. Imgur links are broken.