GGZ Tier 0 Yog Sothoth Upgrade

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

“As well as the conjectures of real mathematics, it is like a character that transcends human imagination, so he can scale to any human creation, just like the conjectures”

“Let me give you an example. Several statements and descriptions in a Tier 0 work are cited by another work that is not by the same author, so that another work is upgraded to Tier 0 (but in fact this is not allowed in the Chinese community).”


is this allowed in our community/vsbw

 

[Delta333]

This is completely wrong becuz yog sothoth's avatar Afrogomon hates people entering her chamber without her permission. But yog sothoth still allow her wisdom and power to those who can reach through the gate. As @LifeRiderthe1 scans provide, Yog Sothoth like humans searching for knowledge.

Entry 5 doesn’t say anything about she grants them the capability to enter her realm tho that’s assumption at best, but I think that’s less the main problem because the problem here is that one cannot exist on the same realm/place as a tier 0, even with a tier 0 grant them that power (this is not same as 1-A).

 

[Ultima_Reality]

This is completely wrong becuz yog sothoth's avatar Afrogomon hates people entering her chamber without her permission. But yog sothoth still allow her wisdom and power to those who can reach through the gate. As @LifeRiderthe1 scans provide, Yog Sothoth like humans searching for knowledge.

Is the realm that she is physically in, the same as Yog-Sothoth's own realm?

“The works they used for upgrading, Tao Te Ching and Diamond Sutra, Cthulhu Mythos and Honkai 2 have nothing to do with each other”

“As well as the conjectures of real mathematics, it is like a character that transcends human imagination, so he can scale to any human creation, just like the conjectures”

“Let me give you an example. Several statements and descriptions in a Tier 0 work are cited by another work that is not by the same author, so that another work is upgraded to Tier 0 (but in fact this is not allowed in the Chinese community).”


is this allowed in our community/vsbw

From what I gather, the relevant excerpts used in this thread are all from the verse itself. Granted, I'd probably like a second translation of them, if possible.

Could you translate the six parts here, if it isn't too much of a bother? Take your time, obviously. @GarrixianXD

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

Is the realm that she is physically in, the same as Yog-Sothoth's own realm?




From what I gather, the relevant excerpts used in this thread are all from the verse itself. Granted, I'd probably like a second translation of them, if possible.

Could you translate the six parts here, if it isn't too much of a bother? Take your time, obviously. @GarrixianXD

Ultima @EastofEden07 just has some issues with it and was wondering if you could talk to him about it. Not necessarily issues just he finds it weird he best compared it to

“Anyway, Honkai 2 Yog's upgrade method is just as weird as Mark can be upgrade to 2-C because just the author thinks Mark can beat Superman.”

 

[Weaver261]

Is the realm that she is physically in, the same as Yog-Sothoth's own realm?

No....it has never stated that the realm entry 5 described is the realm where Yog sothoth physically exists.

 

[EastofEden07]

Question Chinese standards of the Chinese vs community say this isn’t allowed because

“The works they used for upgrading, Tao Te Ching and Diamond Sutra, Cthulhu Mythos and Honkai 2 have nothing to do with each other”

Yeah...when I told my other Chinese friends about this Yog's upgrade they all laughed.

 

[Delta333]

Is the realm that she is physically in, the same as Yog-Sothoth's own realm?

The realm in the entry 5 (where people can enter) was never stated to be her avatar realm or true form realm, but considering the fact that it's described as being outside of space-time, it's must refer to the true form. The statement "The Gods who live beyond the space-time of the Universe have infinite wisdom, but due to that fact they also have endless loneliness. Here you can attain anything you want, except while attaining it... it may also lose its meaning." which refers to the fact that people can enter this "beyond space-time" realm to get what they want literally is written under "Yog-Sothoth" description section and not "Yog-Sothoth・Between the Blazing Embers" description section that talks about her "Aforgomon" avatar.

Besides I have some doubt about entry 5. If she has tier 0 due to apophatic characteristic then shouldn't it be wrong due to how Yog Sothoth shares this exact kind of apophatic powers to a number of her prayers to possess?

Spoiler

This is how divine power works. Humans get old, their hair grays, but how about the world within words? This is the divine power of God, "description", or "definition". The only way to define the boundaries is to transcend them, and because we are free from all things, we can create all things, and so all things are born in our hands.

Many people through the ages have expressed their ideas through words, seeing them as tools, but they had not imagined that the real world is born from words, so just one word may contribute to the rise of a universe from the concept of chaos, and then fixate it, so it never perishes again.

—This is the divine power itself that God has given us, but unfortunately the vast majority of people can only use it ignorantly, even ignoring it's spirituality.

Now, use it to create your world, unconstrained by time and space, eternally independent.

By the way, if you have time, praise my Lord, Yog-Sothoth.

I'm well aware that a tier 0 can grant others power, but not the tier 0 apophatic characteristic to transcend all things at all.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

Yeah...when I told my other Chinese friends about this Yog's upgrade they all laughed.

Cool.

The realm in the entry 5 (where people can enter) was never stated to be her avatar realm or true form realm, but considering the fact that it's described as being outside of space-time, it's must refer to the true form. The statement "The Gods who live beyond the space-time of the Universe have infinite wisdom, but due to that fact they also have endless loneliness. Here you can attain anything you want, except while attaining it... it may also lose its meaning." which refers to the fact that people can enter this "beyond space-time" realm to get what they want literally is written under "Yog-Sothoth" description section and not "Yog-Sothoth・Between the Blazing Embers" description section that talks about her "Aforgomon" avatar.

Besides I have some doubt about entry 5. If she has tier 0 due to apophatic characteristic then shouldn't it be wrong due to how Yog Sothoth shares this exact kind of apophatic powers to a number of her prayers to possess?

Spoiler

This is how divine power works. Humans get old, their hair grays, but how about the world within words? This is the divine power of God, "description", or "definition". The only way to define the boundaries is to transcend them, and because we are free from all things, we can create all things, and so all things are born in our hands.

Many people through the ages have expressed their ideas through words, seeing them as tools, but they had not imagined that the real world is born from words, so just one word may contribute to the rise of a universe from the concept of chaos, and then fixate it, so it never perishes again.

—This is the divine power itself that God has given us, but unfortunately the vast majority of people can only use it ignorantly, even ignoring it's spirituality.

Now, use it to create your world, unconstrained by time and space, eternally independent.

By the way, if you have time, praise my Lord, Yog-Sothoth.

I'm well aware that a tier 0 can grant others power, but not the tier 0 apophatic characteristic to transcend all things at all.

I don't think this monologue is saying that Yog-Sothoth is sharing its apophatic nature with the player. The second and third paragraphs seem to indicate that "the power of description" is something that 'God' has bestowed to everyone, that all people unknowingly have but are ignorant of. Unless the verse is saying everyone is apophatic in nature, clearly the interpretation that "You have the power = You are automatically of the same nature as Yog" is incorrect.

 

[Weaver261]

Are we really ignoring this line?

You, for example, are looking at this line of text, and as I am, looking at you through this line of text.

 

[Delta333]

Cool.


I don't think this monologue is saying that Yog-Sothoth is sharing its apophatic nature with the player. The second and third paragraphs seem to indicate that "the power of description" is something that 'God' has bestowed to everyone, that all people unknowingly have but are ignorant of. Unless the verse is saying everyone is apophatic in nature, clearly the interpretation that "You have the power = You are automatically of the same nature as Yog" is incorrect.

It doesn’t refer to everyone in verse, but the person who enter her realm thus gaining the control over all things. Anyways the entry 5 is fairly short so I recommend you to read it entirely yourself. https://hoyodex.miraheze.org/wiki/Yog-Sothoth_(Outer)/Kizuna

Hello.

Congratulations on arriving here.

What's this place, you ask?

Oh... How should I put it, this is the Kingdom of Heaven, the Sea of Stars, the Immortal World, the Abode outside of Time-Space

It doesn't matter what it's called, because here you have access to all things, through great divine power.

So let me demonstrate for you how this divine power works.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

It doesn’t refer to everyone in verse, but the person who enter her realm thus gaining the control over all things. Anyways the entry 5 is fairly short so I recommend you to read it entirely yourself. https://hoyodex.miraheze.org/wiki/Yog-Sothoth_(Outer)/Kizuna

Hello.

Congratulations on arriving here.

What's this place, you ask?

Oh... How should I put it, this is the Kingdom of Heaven, the Sea of Stars, the Immortal World, the Abode outside of Time-Space

It doesn't matter what it's called, because here you have access to all things, through great divine power.

So let me demonstrate for you how this divine power works.

Yeah, good observation. Thanks. Something that catches my eye here is this, too:

The only way to define the boundaries is to transcend them, and because we are free from all things, we can create all things, and so all things are born in our hands.

Which seems to imply that the referent of "we," here, is something that does transcend all boundaries and as such can determine and create them. If "we" refers to the Gods beyond space and time, then clearly this is a contradiction; you can't have a multiplicity of things in a state supposedly without boundaries and determinations at all. Unless there's no actual multiplicity in the gods.

Granted, there's also this:

—The truly biggest common denominator is language, and words.

Language frames the world, words make the rules, and so space and time are framed beyond this.

You, for example, are looking at this line of text, and as I am, looking at you through this line of text.

She "gives an example" of how language frames and defines the world, and this example is how she, herself, is being perceived through lines of text, and also perceiving the player through lines of text. The obvious implication here being that they both examples of how things are made definite and delimited by language, indicating neither of them is of the same nature as Yog-Sothoth.

So, yeah, wack. I'll think this over and give a veredict later.

 

[CallMeWiertz]

Which seems to imply that the referent of "we," here, is something that does transcend all boundaries and as such can determine and create them. If "we" refers to the Gods beyond space and time, then clearly this is a contradiction; you can't have a multiplicity of things in a state supposedly without boundaries and determinations at all. Unless there's no actual multiplicity in the gods.

From OP himself

Spoiler

"Beyond Space & Time" Gods or Outer Gods for short are far more powerful and superior than "Mythical" Gods.

Lord Of Myrid Realms is able to create a universe full of conceptual gods and create a concept that can end these gods.

In a universe where there was neither "birth" nor "death", there were constant wars and hatreds between the immortal gods.
In this universe, no existence knew why they were at war, and this was the case from the beginning. Therefore, everything in the universe during the Age of Chaos was drowning in never-ending suffering.
The Lord of Myriad Realms outside the universe realized the problem: The universe and the gods he created were in a meaningless cycle, and there was no flow of time.
In order to overcome the defects in the system of concepts, the Lord of Myriad Realms decided to give the universe this basic functioning concept:
Everything lacks eternity. This is "death".
One day, Thanatos the God of Death was born. Everything in the universe began to change quietly, and time began to flow, but the gods had not yet noticed it.
- Thanatos's Kizuna Entry 1

In Babylon, where all the wonders gather, there are many Goddesses who bear the attributes of mothers. Whether it's Metis, who is the Goddess of Wisdom, and the Goddess of the Ocean, with a heart of infinite tolerance, or Percy, who is gentle and stern, and always exudes gentleness and brilliance. There are many moments in their lives where other Gods call them mothers. In this way, those who have won the love of everyone do not put on an act of being elders to everyone, or regard themselves as mothers in the literal sense. The exception to this is, the Mother. Even when looking at her name, it is essentially forcing everyone to call her a mother. And the Mother's name is just the softest of her many measures to emphasize her motherhood. She will use her unidentified tentacles to take the initiative to do all kinds of things she thinks a mother needs to do, and calls all the gods she has ever seen as daughters.
"Strange... I have memories of her in my library, but I can't remember her... and I feel sick when I think of her... Why? This kind of foreign feeling is like that of a wooden thorn stuck in a finger..."
In short, the relationship between Metis and her seems to be very bad, but even so, The Mother still affectionately calls Metis her daughter.
- The Mother's Kizuna Entry 2

Therefore, she shall fulfill her duty, her only duty: to embrace all things, to bring all things back into her womb. Let all that she loves, after seeing that which she sees, a future of unparalleled darkness, put all that she has in her. To curl the whole universe once more into the most fundamental zeroth point, and then to use this last point... to give birth to herself.
- The Mother's Kizuna Entry 5

This should be enough to accept the power difference between "Mythical" Gods and "Outer" Gods.

 

[Delta333]

Yeah, good observation. Thanks. Something that catches my eye here is this, too:



Which seems to imply that the referent of "we," here, is something that does transcend all boundaries and as such can determine and create them. If "we" refers to the Gods beyond space and time, then clearly this is a contradiction; you can't have a multiplicity of things in a state supposedly without boundaries and determinations at all. Unless there's no actual multiplicity in the gods.

Granted, there's also this:



She "gives an example" of how language frames and defines the world, and this example is how she, herself, is being perceived through lines of text, and also perceiving the player through lines of text. The obvious implication here being that they both examples of how things are made definite and delimited by language, indicating neither of them is of the same nature as Yog-Sothoth.

So, yeah, wack. I'll think this over and give a veredict later.

Whether those who possess her powers are on the same level as her or not doesn’t make any difference because what people in this thread do is “to upscale Yog Sothoth from those who she grants powers to”. So, if those prayers are not tier 0 then that will result in she is not as well, but if they’re then she is also not tier 0 due to violate the tier 0 rule of having multiple tier 0 beings.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

From OP himself

Spoiler

"Beyond Space & Time" Gods or Outer Gods for short are far more powerful and superior than "Mythical" Gods.

Lord Of Myrid Realms is able to create a universe full of conceptual gods and create a concept that can end these gods.



This should be enough to accept the power difference between "Mythical" Gods and "Outer" Gods.

Am I supposed to be looking at how the Gods are stated to be beyond time and space?

Whether those who possess her powers are on the same level as her or not doesn’t make any difference because what people in this thread do is “to upscale Yog Sothoth from those who she grants powers to”. So, if those prayers are not tier 0 then that will result in she is not as well, but if they’re then she is also not tier 0 due to violate the tier 0 rule of having multiple tier 0 beings.

I never said anything about whether anyone is on her level or not, so this dichotomy you're setting forth means nothing to me. To my knowledge, the Tier 0 proposal has nothing to do with upscaling whatsoever, so, if there's something I'm not aware of related to that, do elaborate.

 

[Woomica]

The tier 0 is entirely focused on yog being boundless so i doubt he wanted to argue anything else id wait for OP response