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A small correction. Geralt is the best swordsman alive in the verse. In the entire verse, Vilgefortz was beating the ever living shit out of Geralt using a stick. In fact, Vilgefortz skillstomps the entire verse in pretty much every field and I should make a profile for him sometime.
 
Where does it establish itself as permanent? Even if it lasts for the duration of a cutscene, why would it be permanent?

As for Gribble... I don't even know what this is about, to be honest. They both are perfectly capable of outright fighting.

These points are also moot when none of them assist him in overcoming Wolf's own abilities.

"geralt is the best in the verse" doesn't apply to another verse. Wolf's skill feat is qualitatively superior in that Gyoubu defeated hundreds of other fully skilled 9-As through skill alone. Regardless of Geralt's statements, he lacks a feat on such a level. And Wolf is > Gyoubu.

Tanking a meteorite doesn't matter. For one, the surface area of a piercing weapon to blunt force makes a significant difference in durability. Furthermore, deathblows can literally one-shot comparable enemies. So yes, Deathblow does in fact matter.

Statements < Feats, for skill. Someone being "the best martial artist alive" doesn't mean anything in a fight when the other character has actual feats displaying absurd skill.
 
Wall of text incoming. Sorry Bambu.

Lots of Responses
I'd rather bench the Type 4 discussion for another thread; I'll be back from vacation in a day and can discuss it more reliably.

That put, Witcher senses are a hard counter to Sekiro's Type 4 no matter how you spin it. He'd be able to track Sekiro down and take him out before he can even realize it given his skills in hunting down monsters with equatable senses.

And yeah, Sekiro isn't some mook Geralt can take out easily. But Geralt isn't an idiot, and has abilities and wincons he will exercise well before Sekiro gets the jump on him.

Experience =/= Skill. This is where statements come in handy said:
"geralt is the best in the verse" doesn't apply to another verse. Wolf's skill feat is qualitatively superior in that Gyoubu defeated hundreds of other fully skilled 9-As through skill alone. Regardless of Geralt's statements, he lacks a feat on such a level. And Wolf is > Gyoubu.
Wolf beating other skilled 9-As just means he beat them through skill. It says nothing of their skill and what he did to overcome them.

Meanwhile, Geralt being superior to literally everyone in an area that spans an area that includes multiple countries actually says much about his skill; he's not just more skilled than a group of 9-As, he's more skilled than everyone.
Geralt's armor is made of materials like Chainmail that resist slashing attacks and can also help against peircing attacks.

Sekiro doesn't get close enough to deathblow before Geralt uses any of his signs to kill him.

Sekiro can't stealth as per discussions above.

Mr. Bambu"]
Statements < Feats, for skill. Someone being "the best martial artist alive" doesn't mean anything in a fight when the other character has actual feats displaying absurd skill. [/quote]
No, it's entirely contextual, and you speak as if Geralt has no visual feats of skill, which he does in spades, over three games and a novel series.
 
nobody is ever sorry enough, you see

Geralt's senses aren't a counter, they are a mitigating factor. They are a counter to stealth. If that were Wolf's sole means of combat, then we'd be in trouble, but literally every major boss fight is fought without stealth. It isn't as if Wolf only uses stealth.

Wolf has defeated people who have the same training as Geralt. Lady Butterfly for one. Wolf's skill feat is also still higher.

How is it not? Wolf > Genichiro > Gyoubu who fought and defeated hundreds of skilled soldiers/shinobi-esque warriors all of whom had equal AP. I don't see how that isn't better than rofling handfuls of other skilled 9-As.

If somebody jedi mind tricked me, I wouldn't come back, either. Don't care if it was permanent, shit's scary. Also... if Geralt leaves the default battlefield, that's sorta just self BFR. I assume he won't, but that wouldn't leave Wolf incapacitated for 24 hours.

This is literally a single one of the 9-As defeated by Gyoubu. Wolf is also more skilled than everyone. That's the point. Gyoubu isn't bad for skill in the verse, but Wolf literally beats everyone despite having relatively lower AP.

Chainmail isn't a significant enough detriment. Deathblow isn't enacted purely from stealth.

He doesn't have one comparable to Wolf's.
 
Wall of Text 2: Electric Boogaloo
Mr. Bambu said:
Geralt's senses aren't a counter, they are a mitigating factor. They are a counter to stealth. If that were Wolf's sole means of combat, then we'd be in trouble, but literally every major boss fight is fought without stealth. It isn't as if Wolf only uses stealth.
I'm saying it's a counter to Type 4, not a counter to Sekiro entirely. Although Geralt has plenty of other signs and tools to take him out at a comfortable distance in regular combat. Remember, Geralt has tons of traps in his arsenal and Yrden acting as a sentry/magical trap that zaps or slows the hecc out of Sekiro when he's near.

Mr. Bambu said:
Wolf has defeated people who have the same training as Geralt. Lady Butterfly for one. Wolf's skill feat is also still higher.

Lady Butterfly trained and fought for over a century straight? When was this explained, and can I have a link?

Mr. Bambu said:
How is it not? Wolf > Genichiro > Gyoubu who fought and defeated hundreds of skilled soldiers/shinobi-esque warriors all of whom had equal AP. I don't see how that isn't better than rofling handfuls of other skilled 9-As.

How were they defeated, when were they defeated, and what are their feats of skill?

Geralt doesn't just rofl over skilled 9-As; he's the best in that area, period, including people with lower AP values, which makes the pool of people he's superior to vastly greater. Especially when you consider this is a medieval-esque world that has people trained in swordfighting in every single settlement, with bandit camps full of them.

Mr. Bambu said:
If somebody jedi mind tricked me, I wouldn't come back, either. Don't care if it was permanent, shit's scary. Also... if Geralt leaves the default battlefield, that's sorta just self BFR. I assume he won't, but that wouldn't leave Wolf incapacitated for 24 hours.

To be entirely fair, villagers and bandits can literally chase Geralt down across the entire map if Geralt doesn't straight-up outspeed him, and peasants in the Witcher are notably very vengeful and travel great distances in mobs.

I'm not entirely sure if that would be a win for Geralt or Wolf, as they would both mutually be leaving the battlefield, if you want to go down that line of logic.

Mr. Bambu said:
This is literally a single one of the 9-As defeated by Gyoubu. Wolf is also more skilled than everyone. That's the point. Gyoubu isn't bad for skill in the verse, but Wolf literally beats everyone despite having relatively lower AP.

That guy seems to be faring well only by virtue of having a stupidly massive healthpool. Realistically if Sekiro and the character were on equal footing in AP and durability they'd be down in no less than a dozen seconds into that video.

Mr. Bambu said:
Chainmail isn't a significant enough detriment. Deathblow isn't enacted purely from stealth.

It sort of does. Since AP and dura are near each other stuff like armor composition comes into play big time here.

If not through stealth, how else is Wolf getting near Geralt? He's certainly not running at him Lancelot style and getting away with it.

Mr. Bambu said:
He doesn't have one comparable to Wolf's.

That seems like a subjective opinion as opposed to objective reasoning. I've posted skill feats for Geralt and you've posted for Wolf, at that point it would be votes that should determine which seem to be more impressive.

Although if you go by RL standards they both sort of suck, depending on the given cutscene
 
Mindhax doesn't just wear off in X amount of time unless shown to do so. And the one who got mindhaxed is the one getting BFRed, not the one who leaves cuz he has nothing to do.
 
Gonna deal with the lesser comment first...

@Tactical Except it is shown to. The only argument against this is that it lasts through cutscenes. And... frankly, I'd assume Geralt wouldn't just leave a genuine threat there, so that line of reasoning is moot.

Now for this.

It isn't a counter to type 4 as Type 4 still functions to its fullest extent regardless of how Geralt uses his albeit absurdly good senses. A counter to type four would completely negate the use of it. None of Geralt's arsenal does this.

Her entire life. Not a century, I'll grant you. Judging from eyeballing her, she's over 60, likely heading to 70, and that's being pretty generous. So Geralt's "lifetime of becoming rlly skilled" isn't even 2x Butterfly's. And that still is inferior to outright feats.

Wolf is also the best in the area via single handedly destroying the Ashina castle defenses albeit unintentionally. They were defeated with Gyoubu's spear before the gates of Ashina Castle (their corpses are spread about the area). When? I suppose sometime before Wolf got there. Their corpses haven't been treated to the typical thrown-inna-bag-and-burned treatment yet so... not long, I suppose? See their video above.

Peasents are also typically not the brightest of folks. Just saying "well they didn't come back" isn't a good argument for something being permanent when that could be for any number of other reasons.

"Faring well"? Boss Fight (the player) is abusing every weakness by right of having prior knowledge. Just looking at his technique it is relatively obvious they're greater than real life variants of soldiers in terms of skill.

I more meant it isn't a significant enough detriment when Geralt has points that aren't covered by Chainmail and Sekiro will target those. Was that Deadliest Warrior btw?

It really isn't. Geralt's lifetime of experience isn't quantifiably comparable to Wolf's own skill feat scaling.
 
Wall of Text 3: The Reckoning
Mr. Bambu said:
It isn't a counter to type 4 as Type 4 still functions to its fullest extent regardless of how Geralt uses his albeit absurdly good senses. A counter to type four would completely negate the use of it. None of Geralt's arsenal does this.
As I've said we should discuss how Wolf's Type 4 actually functions before we continue discussing it. However, I'm speaking that it counters Type 4 in that, if Wolf immediately resurrects Geralt would notice right away, and if he yeets to the nearest Buddhist Temple, Geralt would track and kill him from stealth before he becomes a meaningful threat.

Mr. Bambu said:
Her entire life. Not a century, I'll grant you. Judging from eyeballing her, she's over 60, likely heading to 70, and that's being pretty generous. So Geralt's "lifetime of becoming rlly skilled" isn't even 2x Butterfly's. And that still is inferior to outright feats.


I'd personally like a link. And training + fighting at the same time is superior to simply training your entire life. Geralt has far more practical experience and it shows in his fights.

Your mistake is saying it isn't an outright feat, when Geralt's resume speaks to the contrary. His entire lifestyle is hunting and taking out beasts with various different abilities, and fighting off warriors and small armies.

Mr. Bambu said:
Wolf is also the best in the area via single handedly destroying the Ashina castle defenses albeit unintentionally. They were defeated with Gyoubu's spear before the gates of Ashina Castle (their corpses are spread about the area). When? I suppose sometime before Wolf got there. Their corpses haven't been treated to the typical thrown-inna-bag-and-burned treatment yet so... not long, I suppose? See their video above.


Is this directly or through the typical Soulesborne "kill a group here and there" style? You've also established Wolf uses stealth, if this happens off-screen what says he didn't use stealth to take them out, which would be far more likely for such a large castle?

If we don't see it happen, we can't reason Wolf rofled them in skill when he has other weapons and methods at his disposal than facing them all at once.

Mr. Bambu said:
Peasents are also typically not the brightest of folks. Just saying "well they didn't come back" isn't a good argument for something being permanent when that could be for any number of other reasons.


Let me rephrase; Geralt can come back to the same exact areas later in the game, after he uses signs, and nobody bats an eye when he uses his signs. It's not just that they "didn't come back".

Mr. Bambu said:
"Faring well"? Boss Fight (the player) is abusing every weakness by right of having prior knowledge. Just looking at his technique it is relatively obvious they're greater than real life variants of soldiers in terms of skill.


More flashy sword-swinging =/= better in skill, for starters. The dude is taking hits every other couple of seconds; if anything that's an indicator for pretty poor swordplay, especially considering he's just wailing on Wolf for most of the fight. Geralt's swordplay doesn't look as interesting, I'll give you that, but that's not what's relevant here.

Mr. Bambu said:
I more meant it isn't a significant enough detriment when Geralt has points that aren't covered by Chainmail and Sekiro will target those. Was that Deadliest Warrior btw?


No idea, although if you doubt my sources I can link other examples of Katanas and other eastern weaponry failing against chainmail.

You mean his head? Sekiro isn't getting remotely close enough to Geralt for that to matter.

Mr. Bambu said:
It really isn't. Geralt's lifetime of experience isn't quantifiably comparable to Wolf's own skill feat scaling.


Sure it is. The fact that Geralt isn't dead in a ditch after fighting monsters and warriors repeatedly for his entire life is a feat.
 
Dargoo I have places to be today this can't keep happening

It seems we're hitting a lot of the same points repeatedly. So I'm gonna go through this and reiterate that I'm not arguing conclusive superiority between them. I'm arguing inconclusive as Geralt has an arsenal that can overcome Wolf and Wolf can potentially one-shot (to really grind down the arguments).
 
I also do agree a discussion for Wolf's immortality should be had. Furthermore we need Winston to clarify the locale of the battle better as it might not even be relevant. Until then, I'm waiting.
 
I'm fine with waiting until you're ready; I'm also going to be busy in around 10 minutes.

Maybe later today or tomorrow; until then I can talk sporadically on discord.
 
Because cutscenes are part of the story and combat is gameplay.

More skilled is more skilled. And if Oniwa is the best feat then Geralt takes skill with absolute ease. For instance, take this scene where Geralt goes to capture a castle but two extremely weakened higher vampires (Regis hasn't drunk blood since the Fox Hollow incident and Dettlaff also is likely an abstainer) pretty much solo the castle's troops for him. A point worth noting is that the vampires aren't teleporting, they're just fast af.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfWl8eHbZ6o

And Geralt can take them on and win, although with high difficulty.
 
how is a castle being taken by a far speedier duo better than a single guy of equal AP taking out the federal army

Still gonna be busy (running D&D) but what
 
Hey there, so I'm out a lot recently so I'm stuck on mobile. I'll try and update the vote count when I get back tomorrow cause I don't think we have enough for grace
 
Okay, so I think I've made the vote count right. Sorry been really busy IRL so I may be wrong, hopefully its right.
 
Canonically I dont think he used a bite down or hidden tooth

However in one of the endings he does commit suicide
 
So

Geralt tells him to die and he uses the mortal blade and dies?

Edit: Nvm he doesn't have it in this key
 
Thanks for the video. Bambu, that archer is a mob enemy and Letho outskills him and Geralt outskills dozens of such archers as well as Letho.

Letho is added to my Witcher profile creation project. Guy's badass enough to warrant a profile. I am currently researching Vilgefortz, Villentretenmerth/Borkh, Renfri, Princess Ada, Azar Zaved, Jacques de Aldersberg, Leo Bonhart and now, Letho "the Kingslayer" of Gulet.
 
If we're going by numbers Wolf's feat is still better though.
 
TacticalNuke002 said:
Letho is added to my Witcher profile creation project. Guy's badass enough to warrant a profile. I am currently researching Vilgefortz, Villentretenmerth/Borkh, Renfri, Princess Ada, Azar Zaved, Jacques de Aldersberg, Leo Bonhart and now, Letho "the Kingslayer" of Gulet.
ooooo vilgefortz

he should be at least 7C as he was stated to be one of if not the most powerful sorcerer that ever lived

plus he was able to beat down geralt in a 1v1

and it took yenefer geralt and ciri to actually kill the mofo

also hell yeah he deserves a profile the guy is a legend
 
Mr. Bambu said:
If we're going by numbers Wolf's feat is still better though.
if we going by numbers geralt can clear out bandit camps that are filled to the brim with bandits each of whom can hurt geralt(9A) and there are at least 100 of them and unlike Gyoubu we actually see geralt take them all at once

also what puts wolf above gyobu in terms of skill here? this is early game wolf who was beaten by Genchiro (don't even about that alternitive scene its an alternitive for a reason) and he just got his prostetic arm so i'd say he is at best even with genchiro
 
I'm not speaking of bandits. I'm speaking of groups of relatively equal AP and superior numbers. Gyoubu defeated an army of Lone Swordsmen.

What? The possibility of defeating Genichiro is literally a canon possibility.
 
Mr. Bambu said:
I'm not speaking of bandits. I'm speaking of groups of relatively equal AP and superior numbers. Gyoubu defeated an army of Lone Swordsmen.

What? The possibility of defeating Genichiro is literally a canon possibility.
I'm pretty sure clearing out a bandit camp filled with hundreds of Order of the Flaming Rose deserters who have turned to banditry isn't a feat to be scoffed at. The Order of the Flaming Rose is one of the most elite military outfits in the Northern Realms. They are the Knights Templar of the Witcher verse, the very best you can get.
 
those bandits in tusante are dangurse enough that they are a danger to the city itself and the city gurd can't deal with them

not to mention that said bandits are capable of killing geralt in a 1v1 geralt is just far too skilled for them to even be touched

yeah a possibility not a defenitive one hell you are meant to lose to him in your first fight
 
also wanted to ask what exactly makes the 100 swordsmen 9A since ya know this here fella: Leader Shigenori Yamauchi

isn't a defenitive 9A and he is supposed to be a skilled swords men

what makes the 100 lone swordsmen 9A is it a statement that i missed or?
 
They're a mini boss AFTER Gyoubu.
 
Random peasant gang killed vampire horde. Conscripted soldiers >= peasants. Volunteers > conscripts. Veterans > volunteers. Elites (Dun Banner, Blue Stripes) > veterans. OotFR > elites. Toussaint knights > OotFR. Witchers > Toussaint knights. Geralt > all other witchers.

As a reference, individual Toussaint knights should be able to clear the OotFR bandit camp too, considering that the two knights that accompany Geralt to Toussaint were preparing to fight a bandit horde themselves.
 
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