Geralt vs Wolf (Sekiro)

[Mr. Bambu]

I... wasn't referring to Axii. I was responding to Sheev.

 

[Schnee_One]

Geralt FRA

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

The logic of Sekiro is that loud sounds break the grip on the mind. By verse equalization this logic would carry over to some extent to Witcher.

Why do we assume that it's a universal rule of Sekiro that mindhax can be broken with loud sounds as opposed to that specfic mindhax having that weakness?

Unless there's something more substantial, you're making a pretty large generalization for the verse.

@Dargoo Slaying armies of fodder is different than slaying armies of enemies equal to yourself. Each of those imperial soldiers is roughly equivalent to the Lone Swordsman who is literally a mini boss later in the game. Literally an army of equivalently strong enemies.

It's made clear Geralt isn't just bodying them physically; he outskills them significantly as well. See the quotes I linked on his skill.

 

[TacticalNuke002]

Except Witcher humans are blatantly 9-A and comparable to Geralt in AP but not skill. For example, many of the legendary heroes are humans who have slayed some big monster.

To give a proper example, a vampire horde led by Regis and his girlfriend attacked the tiny village of Fox Hollow in Toussaint. Not only the hastily assembled peasants fight back the horde, they actually took the fight to the vampires' castle of Tesham Mutna and slaughtered every single one of the hundreds of vampires in the castle. The only one who escaped alive was Regis due to higher vampiric regen, but he still got cut into thousands of small pieces and each piece was buried deep underground randomly all over Toussaint. He eventually regenerated after a hundred years or so, but the entire ordeal was so horrible and utterly humiliating that he swore never to drink blood ever again and become a good person. Also to note is that the peasants were extremely drunk and armed only with peasant tools like scythes, sickles, pitchforks etc.

 

[TacticalNuke002]

This feat is extremely impressive because even Witchers try and avoid fighting higher vampires whenever possible. Actual soldiers would obviously be more skilled than random drunk peasants and Geralt horriby outskills the soldiers.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

I vote for Geralt via his hax.

 

[GribbleTheTrashMan]

Except Witcher humans are blatantly 9-A and comparable to Geralt in AP but not skill. For example, many of the legendary heroes are humans who have slayed some big monster.
To give a proper example, a vampire horde led by Regis and his girlfriend attacked the tiny village of Fox Hollow in Toussaint. Not only the hastily assembled peasants fight back the horde, they actually took the fight to the vampires' castle of Tesham Mutna and slaughtered every single one of the hundreds of vampires in the castle. The only one who escaped alive was Regis due to higher vampiric regen, but he still got cut into thousands of small pieces and each piece was buried deep underground randomly all over Toussaint. He eventually regenerated after a hundred years or so, but the entire ordeal was so horrible and utterly humiliating that he swore never to drink blood ever again and become a good person. Also to note is that the peasants were extremely drunk and armed only with peasant tools like scythes, sickles, pitchforks etc.

I'm still questioning how did some villagers took down an entire vampire community while a single low vampire was able to gore an entire group of soldiers

 

[TacticalNuke002]

They were using peasant hax. And young Vessemir was initially helping them out. When they broke down the gates of Tesham Mutna, some rubble fell on Vessemir's head and knocked him out for the remainder of the battle, meaning that the peasants still cleared out the castle by themselves and with lower numbers.

The drunkenness was actually a stroke of genius from Germain (leader of the peasants). Not only would being drunk give the villagers courage, it also had a secondary purpose. The high amounts of alcohol in the villagers' blood meant that if they took losses and the vampires drank their blood, they would get drunk as well. Humans are apparently better at fighting while drunk than vampires due to having experience fighting like that.

 

[Jimboydejuan12]

Im voted Geralt Fra.

need 2 more vote bro.

 

[GribbleTheTrashMan]

well i saw a respect thread for sekiro and i might say the arsenal for sekiro is mostly useless against geralt


well to simply put

geralt has more ways to kill sekrio than sekiro has to geralt

 

[Stillwinston]

@Gribble take that as a vote for Geralt then?

 

[KLOL506]

Geralt FRA

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Geralt literally can't kill Sekiro

 

[KLOL506]

Geralt just needs to turn Sekiro into The Black Knight

 

[Mr. Bambu]

but literally nothing Geralt has kills Sekiro

 

[KLOL506]

but literally nothing Geralt has kills Sekiro

You can still win without killing tho

 

[GribbleTheTrashMan]

@Gribble take that as a vote for Geralt then?

i mean it should be obvious

 

[TacticalNuke002]

There are 8 votes for Geralt and one for incon if I counted properly. Which means that we are 7hrs into grace at the time of this comment.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

but at least one vote for Geralt is based on killing something he literally can't kill

like I really don't have time to be typing this but

what

the votes for Geralt are based on mindhax (which, fair, has a few minds over what Wolf would resist, if you don't believe in reasonable gaps then whatever). But that's pretty much his win-condition. That single skill he won't assuredly open with. If he kills Wolf he gets Deathblowed (doubly so since we've established bodily damage doesn't last after death for Wolf). If he doesn't kill Wolf he gets Deathblowed.

Wolf's skill feat is qualitatively superior to Geralt's. Geralt having former experience with resurrection users is good but not great.

90% of what Geralt does leads to him losing, so people have fixated on one thing and generally ignored the fact that Wolf can't die.

Not super happy with that, really.

 

[GribbleTheTrashMan]

but at least one vote for Geralt is based on killing something he literally can't kill
like I really don't have time to be typing this but

what

the votes for Geralt are based on mindhax (which, fair, has a few minds over what Wolf would resist, if you don't believe in reasonable gaps then whatever). But that's pretty much his win-condition. That single skill he won't assuredly open with. If he kills Wolf he gets Deathblowed (doubly so since we've established bodily damage doesn't last after death for Wolf). If he doesn't kill Wolf he gets Deathblowed.

Wolf's skill feat is qualitatively superior to Geralt's. Geralt having former experience with resurrection users is good but not great.

90% of what Geralt does leads to him losing, so people have fixated on one thing and generally ignored the fact that Wolf can't die.

Not super happy with that, really.

>Saying that wolf will get a certain deathblow

>Ignores geralt can use Quen

>Ignores that Geralt never lets his guard down

>Geralt is proclaimed to be the best swordsman of the witcher verse

>Ignoring that geralt can manage to pull off trick moves such as cutting the arm off, Decapitate, Again decapitate but more brutally, Or even cutting the entire damn body...

>Ignores that geralt as fought characters that were unable to die


Basically even if he can't kill wolf at least he can K.O him by literally making him into little pieces of flesh

this thread doesn't have the rule to fight to the death so...

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I mean

A deathblow happens fast, is the point. Forming a protective barrier around yourself is great and all but it isn't like a passive thing, and hard to do with a sword ripping through you.

And I didn't ignore anything. I'm just aware that Wolf's feat via being > Gyoubu is better than Geralt's given feats. I like 'em both, to be clear. Wolf's just getting a bit of a raw deal here when people are using Geralt killing someone who can't be killed as their reasoning.

Those... don't matter. Wolf resurrects. Moving on.

I literally didn't ignore any of this, if you read my responses you'd have seen me acknowledge this. You haven't countered any of my points, you've just been a bit rude without proving anything.

Yes, he can KO wolf, I agree, but it would be more in-character to attempt to perma-incap. And Wolf, in that scenario, has the upper hand.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

\ A deathblow happens fast, is the point. Forming a protective barrier around yourself is great and all but it isn't like a passive thing, and hard to do with a sword ripping through you.

The forcefeild around Geralt is not his most common application of quen. It is typically a passive barrier he activates around himself that takes a fatal blow in his place. So yes, it would negate whatever attack Sekiro tries while Geralt proceeds to counter.

And I didn't ignore anything. I'm just aware that Wolf's feat via being > Gyoubu is better than Geralt's given feats. I like 'em both, to be clear. Wolf's just getting a bit of a raw deal here when people are using Geralt killing someone who can't be killed as their reasoning.

As I've said, Geralt is the most skilled person in an area that is essentially an entire country/group of countries which have thousands of trained swordsmen. As others have said, Geralt doesn't just rofl on fodder, he can outskill plenty of people at his level.

Those... don't matter. Wolf resurrects. Moving on.

Geralt has fought lord knows how many people with that power. Nor would ressurecting surprise Geralt in the slightest; he would hear his heartbeat or slight movements and activate a sign before killing him again with something that would split his body into pieces.

Yes, he can KO wolf, I agree, but it would be more in-character to attempt to perma-incap. And Wolf, in that scenario, has the upper hand.

I thought we established Geralt bypasses his ressurection with Igni (which disintegrates/burns him alive), Aard (Freezes/Gibs him), or just through lobbing off limbs.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Assuming Geralt uses it in time. As I said. A Deathblow is often performed from Stealth and done quick. Performing even a hand signal may be a bit much to expect.

And Wolf is > Gyoubu. Who defeated an army of equal AP skilled swordsmen (see: Lone Swordsman) in a 1vhundreds fight. Wolf outdid him and others.

Fair, but the fact that it doesn't surprise him doesn't matter nor does it mitigate the fact that Geralt has no method of killing him.

Wolf's resurrection has since been changed since it was decided the arm-cutting-off was technically before he got his Type 4. That would no longer be an efficient method of bypassing.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Assuming Geralt uses it in time. As I said. A Deathblow is often performed from Stealth and done quick. Performing even a hand signal may be a bit much to expect.

The battle doesn't start in stealth. Geralt can put up Quen before Sekiro jumps into the bushes or something. In fact, he tends do this prior to battles anyways.

Stealth working on someone with Geralt's senses and his Witcher charm? Highly unlikely.

And Wolf is > Gyoubu. Who defeated an army of equal AP skilled swordsmen (see: Lone Swordsman) in a 1vhundreds fight. Wolf outdid him and others.
I'm not sure how that translates to 1v1 skills. How skilled are the swordsmen that Gyoubu defeated? Because outskilling an average army with high AP is not > outskilling an entire geographical region.

Wolf's resurrection has since been changed since it was decided the arm-cutting-off was technically before he got his Type 4. That would no longer be an efficient method of bypassing.
I don't follow. What's the best he came back from with his Type 4? We don't quantify things by anti-feats, we quantify them by feats.

So you'd have to show me Sekiro coming back from being chopped to pieces, or just coming back with a new body entirely.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Fair, but you do get my point. It's generally a quick attack, and, to be fair, Wolf has good stealth feats of bypassing enhanced senses of wolves and the like, and has means to enhance his stealth capabilities.

The soldiers in question are the same units as the Lone Swordsman. Who is a mini boss later in the game. Meaning the game knows they can damage you, not as fodder. So AP isn't the reason. The soldiers are skilled in that they are members of the Federal Army, which basically just rofls every other army in Japan. Gyoubu did this victory via skill, not AP.

I mean. It's type 4. He dies and basically just respawns back at the altar. What happens to his body is secondary, same as other Soulsborne protags.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Fair, but you do get my point. It's generally a quick attack, and, to be fair, Wolf has good stealth feats of bypassing enhanced senses of wolves and the like, and has means to enhance his stealth capabilities.

Geralt outpaces animals in senses. It's why he can hunt and kill monsters so well. He has a charm that alerts him of danger, heck.

"Generally a quick attack" means nothing in a speed equal battle.

I mean. It's type 4. He dies and basically just respawns back at the altar. What happens to his body is secondary, same as other Soulsborne protags.

Is his respawns grounded in the lore like in the other Soulesborn games? I thought it was just his immediate ressurections that are mentioned.

Where's the nearest altar, in this case?

 

[Anttron224]

White Wolf for Dargoo's reasons

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I realize he does. But with Wolf being capable of enhancing his stealth past that, it becomes a grey area. And yes, yes it does. Attacks that require a lot of movement or what have you mean something. An attack that would need to be done slowly and carefully is different than a quick jab.

I misinterpretted the "with High AP part", since it sounded as if you were implying Gyoubu won via AP. And... not quite, but to be fair, Geralt doesn't have to be the best fighter via pure skill either. He's got Witcher abilities which already neg pretty much all enemies (not all, but a lot). So the feats are about as equally viable. The soldiers are better trained than the other armies of Japan. I can send you a link to the fight with Lone Swordsman if you want, so you can see how he fights. He's no slouch.

It's largely just "he respawns lol". He can respawn on the spot or go to an altar. The nearest altar... I dunno. It's just a forest. We don't know what forest in what world. Buddhism being a pretty notable religion, it could be close. Suppose we'd have to ask Winston how this one works out since the location is changed and vague.

 

[Anttron224]

*Gets BFR'd by his own respawn*

 

[Mr. Bambu]

^ Basically a possibility. Hence why we need Winston.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

I don't think any of Sekiro's enhancements would make the question of him steathing someone who regularly outstealths animals and has a magic gatchet that would just tell him when Sekiro's going to attack "a gray area". If it's 'a quick jab' it would require Sekiro getting closer to Geralt than Geralt or his weapons/signs would allow.

It's not "he's the best fighter" it's "he's the best swordsman". I can send Witcher combat videos as well, Geralt isn't a slouth either.

I get soulsborne typically makes the respawn a part of their lore (The Darksign in DS, the Hunter's Dream in Bloodborne); however I'd first like to see where in the lore Sekiro's respawn is accounted for. I only remember his immediate ressurections being mentioned.

The OP specifying an exact location seems necessary, yes.

On another note, Geralt can also amp his reactions with various potions and enhance his speed to slow-mo levels with Helitrope.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

If Geralt couldn't stop him? Again, really only one thing Geralt has incaps, even then there's an argument against it to some extent.

And that's fair. I'm just saying Wolf's feat is higher-end.

You're probably looking at waiting for a Vaati video for that one. Also, side note, the Darksign isn't exactly the whole thing, since it's more like that kills you/sacrifices your soul, but you're an Ashen One who will live foreva etc etc etc.

Yes.

That helps.

 

[SheevShezarrine]

Assuming Geralt uses it in time. As I said. A Deathblow is often performed from Stealth and done quick. Performing even a hand signal may be a bit much to expect.

And Wolf is > Gyoubu. Who defeated an army of equal AP skilled swordsmen (see: Lone Swordsman) in a 1vhundreds fight. Wolf outdid him and others.

Fair, but the fact that it doesn't surprise him doesn't matter nor does it mitigate the fact that Geralt has no method of killing him.

Wolf's resurrection has since been changed since it was decided the arm-cutting-off was technically before he got his Type 4. That would no longer be an efficient method of bypassing.

I'm still pretty sure Wolf got his Type 4 prior to his dismemberment, since Anayama states outright that Wolf was at the Hirata Estate sacking

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Yes, because he was time-warped there by the statue. Later in the game. When even he said he hadn't been there yet until that very moment.

I feel like we've been down this exact line of reasoning, you and I. So here comes the time is convuluted in Lordran meme.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Why should I have to wait for a Vaati video on Sekiro lore if we currently treat his Type 4 like that? Are you saying we're assuming it works like that due to prior soulesbornes games, not because we're aware of how it works in the lore?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

We're saying it works like how it seems to work (which is what is above) until some lore appears to contradict this. We'd refer to it simply as game mechanics if, say, it were just "checkpoint lol". But the buddha statues go a bit beyond that.

 

[Paul_Frank]

Considering once you beat genichiro the first time kuro asks

"How many times have you died to protect me? Two? Three? Perhaps a number so large you've lost count."

I think it's safe to say there is no 3 revive limit in lore

 

[Mr. Bambu]

That's not the question at hand.

Also I gotta go to work so uh.

Good luck I guess. Night fellas.

 

[SheevShezarrine]

Yes, because he was time-warped there by the statue. Later in the game. When even he said he hadn't been there yet until that very moment.

I feel like we've been down this exact line of reasoning, you and I. So here comes the time is convuluted in Lordran meme.

Maybe he did say he wasn't there, but I don't recall you ever addressing the fact that his memory was ****** (with Kuro referencing the event at the start of the game and Wolf not), and that Wolf shouldn't be considered a reliable narrator in regards to it. Most I recall is you essentially reiterating your point, me getting fed up, responding with a blank face emoticon, and dropping the topic.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

We're saying it works like how it seems to work (which is what is above) until some lore appears to contradict this. We'd refer to it simply as game mechanics if, say, it were just "checkpoint lol". But the buddha statues go a bit beyond that.

That's... not how we should operate. We should prove an ability that is commonly game mechanics (yes, I'm very much aware that in Soulesborne games the trend is that they're not, but I don't think that's grounds to assume anything) works under the lore, we don't wait for the lore to contradict an assumption we make.

I'm not sure how the Buddha statues signify anything more significant than other video game checkpoints.

Considering once you beat genichiro the first time kuro asks

"How many times have you died to protect me? Two? Three? Perhaps a number so large you've lost count."

I think it's safe to say there is no 3 revive limit in lore

That is in essence what I was looking for. But this is likely referring to his instant revives and not the checkpoints.