Genshin Impact General Revisions #01

[Solacis]

"#01" because we all know this won't be the last.

Calculations & Clarifications:

1. Guhua casually levels an entire bamboo forest.
   Yields 7-B and is consistent with the scaling of high-tier Vision bearers such as Lisa, who effortlessly trivialize characters on the level of Razor.
2. Barbatos effortlessly levels multiple mountain ranges. (clarification only)
   This calc was already accepted in a previous CRT, but clarification is needed in that this is about as effortless a feat as it can get, as Barbatos performed this just by plucking a single string on his lyre; thus why far weaker gods still scale directly to the High 7-A yield, as they would backscale. Just thought it'd be important to note.
3. Andrius creates and sustains a Germany-sized blizzard.
   Yields 6-C and is consistent with the gap between the average deity and higher-tiered ones such as Andrius, and those that scale above him, such as Decarabian.
   Scales to higher-tier gods.
4. Barbatos throws Pilos Peak into the ocean.
   Yields 6-C and is consistent with the above Andrius calc, since Barbatos performed this feat casually.

General Hax Revisions:

1. Cryo Vision bearers should have Resistance to Ice Manipulation and Extreme Cold.
   Both Eula and Chongyun have displayed superhuman resistance to extremely-low temperatures, with both characters swimming in the freezing waters of Dragonspine for extended periods and finding it refreshing, whereas normal people are known to freeze to death in minutes.
2. Transformation and Elemental Intangibility should be removed for all Vision-bearers that do not display the ability.
   This was brought up in past CRTs but hasn't been officially addressed, so here it is. Only Vision-bearers like Razor, Childe, Ayaka and all Catalyst-users would thus possess this ability.
3. All characters in the verse have Non-Physical Interaction.
   This is via physically interacting with Slimes, which are stated to be made of pure elemental energy.
4. Vision bearers have a higher level of NPI.
   This is via interacting with ghosts, disembodied souls and elemental oculi, as displayed on multiple occasions.

Summary:

1. High tier Vision bearers (those that scale to or above Lisa or Childe) are now 7-B.
2. The average Archon War deity scales to High 7-A, whereas higher-tier deities, such as those who scale to Andrius or were noteworthy battles for Morax, scale to 6-C.
3. Cryo Visions give resistance to the cold.
4. Elemental Transformation and Intangibility will only be given to those who've displayed the ability to transform into their respective elements.
5. All characters in the verse have NPI. Even the HIlichurls. Vision-bearers have better NPI.

 

[FanSyst]

Just two doubts, isn't it a bit hasty to assume that the size of Mondstadt and Germany are equal? If Mondstadt and Germany are equal in size wouldn't it influence Venti's calculation?

 

[Aernasilver]

I don't know about those calcs assuming real world size just because it's influenced. Seems a bit excessive. Any other statements besides being influenced?

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

I really doesnt agree with the 6-C calculation. I am sure that The map does not exceed 5 kilometers. "Game mechanics" does not interfere with scale

EDIT: The first calculation I also disagree with. An area of 120 square kilometers is probably even larger than the game map

 

[Solacis]

I don't know about those calcs assuming real world size just because it's influenced. Seems a bit excessive. Any other statements besides being influenced?

I really doesnt agree with the 6-C calculation. I am sure that The map does not exceed 5 kilometers. "Game mechanics" does not interfere with scale

EDIT: The first calculation I also disagree with. An area of 120 square kilometers is probably even larger than the game map

Just two doubts, isn't it a bit hasty to assume that the size of Mondstadt and Germany are equal? If Mondstadt and Germany are equal in size wouldn't it influence Venti's calculation?

Real world size is about the only thing we can use, as the size of the regions as depicted in-game are wildly inaccurate to the depiction of the actual distances involved.

For example, multiple narrations state that it takes days to travel on foot from Mondstadt to Liyue, yet according to in-game scale the distance between them is less than 2 kilometres, a distance most people can jog in minutes. By scale, Dragonspine, a mountain legendary for its sheer size, is far smaller than the minimum size of a mountain as defined by this page on the wiki.

Another example would be the fact that it takes a well-stocked ship to sail to Inazuma, yet based on its distance from Liyue according to the in-game map, it's not even 4 kilometres away. That's barely above walking distance if there was a bridge built between the nations. It's clear that the in-game map cannot be used for an accurate representation of the size of Teyvat's regions. Thus, the only thing we can do is take the real-world size of the countries each region was based on, which Germany is for Mondstadt.

 

[FanSyst]

For example, multiple narrations state that it takes days to travel on foot from Mondstadt to Liyue, yet according to in-game scale the distance between them is less than 2 kilometres, a distance most people can jog in minutes. By scale, Dragonspine, a mountain legendary for its sheer size, is far smaller than the minimum size of a mountain as defined by this page on the wiki.

A similar approach to the one in this thread could be taken.

https://vsbattles.com/threads/bleach-las-noches-size-2-0.54745/

 

[Solacis]

We'll keep an eye out for similar kinds of statements since that does feel like a logical approach. As far as I know though, there aren't any specific distances and size that couldn't be more easily taken as hyperbole. There was one statement of Guili Plains stretching for 10km in every direction, but a quick look at the original CN text showed that there was no numbers spoken of in said text, so we couldn't use it.

Until we get something like that, this is the best we can do. Besides, when we do finally get specifics, we can always revise it again another day.

 

[Naito-desu]

In support for a better method of finding the size of the size of Teyvat, I will disagree on the current calcs. I do believe that Teyvat is much larger than the game implies. Many games have obvious limitations to the sizes of literal nations in open world games, and do not reflect the actual lore size of their nations.

A great example of this is in the Runescape novel, Varrock was described as a sprawling city where one could see it reach to the horizon and beyond, when in game, you could transverse it in less than a minute. I believe other canon media and tie-ins could give a more concrete answer.

 

[Avengershows]

I agree with the CRT. As for the sizes thing. Here's my take on it. We should use this until we get better sizes from lore. And it's likely that the sizes are similar anyway and would yield a simillar result. So.

 

[Naito-desu]

I agree with the CRT. As for the sizes thing. Here's my take on it. We should use this until we get better sizes from lore. And it's likely that the sizes are similar anyway and would yield a simillar result. So.

I mean assuming country sizes being similar only based on inspiration is presumptuous enough, especially when there's a perfectly usable alternative of just using the in-game measurements. I am in the "Teyvat is much bigger than the game shows" crew personally, but I do think that we're being a tad stubborn about not using the in-game mode of measurement, at least until we find a better indication of measurement.

If the game comes out with new info that suggests larger, good for us, but for now I don't want this rating of Genshin characters to be based on incredibly flimsy and presumptuous logic.

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

"#01" because we all know this won't be the last.

Calculations & Clarifications:

1. Guhua casually levels an entire bamboo forest.
   Yields 7-B and is consistent with the scaling of high-tier Vision bearers such as Lisa, who effortlessly trivialize characters on the level of Razor.
2. Barbatos effortlessly levels multiple mountain ranges. (clarification only)
   This calc was already accepted in a previous CRT, but clarification is needed in that this is about as effortless a feat as it can get, as Barbatos performed this just by plucking a single string on his lyre; thus why far weaker gods still scale directly to the High 7-A yield, as they would backscale. Just thought it'd be important to note.
3. Andrius creates and sustains a Germany-sized blizzard.
   Yields 6-C and is consistent with the gap between the average deity and higher-tiered ones such as Andrius, and those that scale above him, such as Decarabian.
   Scales to higher-tier gods.

General Hax Revisions:

1. Cryo Vision bearers should have Resistance to Ice Manipulation and Extreme Cold.
   Both Eula and Chongyun have displayed superhuman resistance to extremely-low temperatures, with both characters swimming in the freezing waters of Dragonspine for extended periods and finding it refreshing, whereas normal people are known to freeze to death in minutes.
2. Transformation and Elemental Intangibility should be removed for all Vision-bearers that do not display the ability.
   This was brought up in past CRTs but hasn't been officially addressed, so here it is. Only Vision-bearers like Razor, Childe, Ayaka and all Catalyst-users would thus possess this ability.
3. All characters in the verse have Non-Physical Interaction.
   This is via physically interacting with Slimes, which are stated to be made of pure elemental energy.
4. Vision bearers have a higher level of NPI.
   This is via interacting with ghosts, disembodied souls and elemental oculi, as displayed on multiple occasions.

Summary:

1. High tier Vision bearers (those that scale to or above Lisa or Childe) are now 7-B.
2. The average Archon War deity scales to High 7-A, whereas higher-tier deities, such as those who scale to Andrius or were noteworthy battles for Morax, scale to 6-C.
3. Cryo Visions give resistance to the cold.
4. Elemental Transformation and Intangibility will only be given to those who've displayed the ability to transform into their respective elements.
5. All characters in the verse have NPI. Even the HIlichurls. Vision-bearers have better NPI.

Btw you forgot this calc
Barbados lifting Pilos Peak 5.7 Gigatons (Island level)

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

For example, multiple narrations state that it takes days to travel on foot from Mondstadt to Liyue, yet according to in-game scale the distance between them is less than 2 kilometres,

Really there’s a statement of taking days walking.
I mean we can use that to measure the map then.
Because btw assuming they’re moving at 6.5m/s highball I know
The distance would literally be 1123km but that’s also assuming the characters aren’t sleeping or stopping so it would likely be several hundred km lower.

But if this is true we can use this for Baal’s feat it will be a downgrade but likely still around 6-C to High 6-C
But then again Genshin size statements are ultra unreliable

Gosh this is gonna be another Naruto or Bleach situation isn’t it. (for those who know you know.)

 

[Avengershows]

I

I mean assuming country sizes being similar only based on inspiration is presumptuous enough, especially when there's a perfectly usable alternative of just using the in-game measurements. I am in the "Teyvat is much bigger than the game shows" crew personally, but I do think that we're being a tad stubborn about not using the in-game mode of measurement, at least until we find a better indication of measurement.

If the game comes out with new info that suggests larger, good for us, but for now I don't want this rating of Genshin characters to be based on incredibly flimsy and presumptuous logic.

In game measurements are outright contradicted. Using them for calcs is incredibly stupid.

 

[Solacis]

Really there’s a statement of taking days walking.
I mean we can use that to measure the map then.
Because btw assuming they’re moving at 6.5m/s highball I know
The distance would literally be 1123km but that’s also assuming the characters aren’t sleeping or stopping so it would likely be several hundred km lower.

But if this is true we can use this for Baal’s feat it will be a downgrade but likely still around 6-C to High 6-C
But then again Genshin size statements are ultra unreliable

Gosh this is gonna be another Naruto or Bleach situation isn’t it. (for those who know you know.)

I guess if we have the statements for it then we can put this CRT off for later.

 

[Solacis]

I mean assuming country sizes being similar only based on inspiration is presumptuous enough, especially when there's a perfectly usable alternative of just using the in-game measurements. I am in the "Teyvat is much bigger than the game shows" crew personally, but I do think that we're being a tad stubborn about not using the in-game mode of measurement, at least until we find a better indication of measurement.

If the game comes out with new info that suggests larger, good for us, but for now I don't want this rating of Genshin characters to be based on incredibly flimsy and presumptuous logic.

The in-game measurements are outright wrong and we know this for fact. Using them anyway in spite of knowing this is even worse than just making our only logical assumption.

Besides, there are, to my knowledge, multiple cases of using real-world countries as references for size when all other options are unfeasible. Until such time as we can find a better re-calc, then it should be valid for use.

 

[Avengershows]

The in-game measurements are outright wrong and we know this for fact. Using them anyway in spite of knowing this is even worse than just making our only logical assumption.

Besides, there are, to my knowledge, multiple cases of using real-world countries as references for size when all other options are unfeasible. Until such time as we can find a better re-calc, then it should be valid for use.

You forgot the fact that these sizes have been accepted by calc members and staff as usable so I don't really see the problem anyway

 

[Regidian]

You forgot the fact that these sizes have been accepted by calc members and staff as usable so I don't really see the problem anyway

The germany calc is not accepted to

 

[Avengershows]

The germany calc is not accepted to

a majority using irl sizes were tho

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

a majority using irl sizes were tho

Yeah, even the Pilos lift
(Although being honest with Pilos the only reason I just used Fuji’s volume is because standard Calc methods not using fancy calculus inflates the volume like crazy)

 

[BruhMomento0260]

Are we gonna add an Inazuma chapter key for Traveler?

 

[Jackpact]

Are we gonna add an Inazuma chapter key for Traveler?

After act 3, for now there are still uncertainty about their tier.

Also i agree with the revision, except for resistance to extreme cold for all cryo user, the 2 example have really different circumstance than the rest of the cryo user, if a character that have zero reason to resist cold temperature aside from having a cryo vision is released then we can make a case.

 

[Naito-desu]

Thinking about it more, I will agree with the 7-B changes, and also the resistances to cold, but everything else will be a disagree from me

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

I'm still gonna wait for more debate before giving my approval here

But really? 5+ Gigaton at best for God tiers? That's too low lel

 

[Arceus0x]

walking speed would be different.

6.5 m/s is literally top human running speed. Average walking speed is 5 km/h

assuming 4 hours of sleep per day and 20 hours walking means that it is around 100km/day

thus assuming 2 days it is 200km

 

[Naito-desu]

Really there’s a statement of taking days walking.

I mean doesn't the game also point out the shorter day-night cycles of Teyvat? Not that it significantly downgrades much, but it reduces the proposed distance quite a bit.

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

I mean doesn't the game also point out the shorter day-night cycles of Teyvat? Not that it significantly downgrades much, but it reduces the proposed distance quite a bit.

Yeah it does but how much can’t really be quantified
Aether being a world hopper and potentially having a different view of day and night cycles doesn’t help either

Maybe we can use the difference between a second Irl and a minute in game
Find how long days are in game Irl time and multiply by the difference
I’m just spit balling though (although I won’t be surprised if such an idea gets bizarre results)

 

[Solacis]

Also i agree with the revision, except for resistance to extreme cold for all cryo user, the 2 example have really different circumstance than the rest of the cryo user, if a character that have zero reason to resist cold temperature aside from having a cryo vision is released then we can make a case.

Eula has no reason to resist cold temperatures by herself. She's a normal human and has no "different circumstance". The only thing differentiating her from a normal adventurer who would freeze to death is her Cryo Vision.

 

[Solacis]

So as I'm seeing so far:

1. 7-B being accepted is pretty clear-cut, so at least there's that.
   
   
2. Disagreements with the methodology for the calculations yielding High 7-A and 6-C are invalid because Calc Group members had no issue with the justifications for using said references for size when they accepted the calcs. So unless there's a scaling inconsistency or some other verse-specific reason for calling them invalid, we're going to be taking them as accepted until such time as a more accurate re-calc is done. Though to be clear, I'm not saying these are perfectly accurate, but what I can say is that they are immensely consistent with the level of feats displayed in in-game lore, so even if they aren't the exact yields, there's really no issue with using them until the re-calcs are done; unless you want to be unnecessarily anal about these things.
   
   
3. Cryo resistances seem to be split, but as I said in the above response to @Jackpact, Eula has no non-Vision-related reason to be able to resist the cold of Dragonspine in the first place, which is why the possibility of a resistance to ice and cold was brought up at all.
   
   
4. Finally, are there any thoughts on the Non-Physical Interaction? I haven't seen any comments on that yet.

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

I agree with NPI iirc I brought up that Everyone should have it a few months ago

 

[Solacis]

So I suppose we only need to settle the topic of Cryo Resistances, since there hasn't been any other disagreements with the calcs besides questioning the validity of the methods used despite said calcs being valid according to the Calc Group.

 

[Solacis]

Btw you forgot this calc
Barbados lifting Pilos Peak 5.7 Gigatons (Island level)

Also added this to the OP.

 

[Jackpact]

Well i base my assumption on Eula statement of her training on Dragonspine being normal and her clan put her under such pressure as a kid, thus Eula being forced to do all of this as a kid would help her adapt to it.

Eula vision story seem to happens while she was in the KOF so it isn't when she was a kid, when she was subject to such training.

 

[Solacis]

Well i base my assumption on Eula statement of her training on Dragonspine being normal and her clan put her under such pressure as a kid, thus Eula being forced to do all of this as a kid would help her adapt to it.

Eula vision story seem to happens while she was in the KOF so it isn't when she was a kid, when she was subject to such training.

Her statement is in regards to the difficulty of the training, not the location or intensity. Eula is hardly putting the Traveler through the same training a child would go through, seeing as she herself says she doubts she might be able to replicate how well he did even as she is now.

In the first place, did training a child in an environment dangerous enough to kill full-grown and seasoned adventurers and qualified knights not sound the least bit ridiculous to you? It's obvious she didn't actually train like that as a kid.

 

[Jackpact]

Well it's the after the first one that she said it, not the second one, but fair enough.

Even if she didn't train like that as a kid, she can still train like that before she join the KOF since the way she said it, it seem to be apart of her "dancing" practice which by the sound of it, would defintely be required for her trial, she could also just train slowly to adapt her body to it so there's that. But since the easiest way is to just assume that she's resistance to the cold cause of her vision, i won't argue against it after this.

 

[Solacis]

So I guess that settles that. If there isn't anymore input in the next few hours, I'll get to applying the changes.

 

[Jackpact]

Don't we need staff input since this would affect most of the profile currently?

Also when is that next one hitting Sol :v

 

[Solacis]

This isn't a very big revision, all things considered. It's just a few already-accepted calcs, plus a couple of straightforward hax additions. Hardly groundbreaking.

Probs next week

 

[Jackpact]

This isn't a very big revision, all things considered. It's just a few already-accepted calcs, plus a couple of straightforward hax additions. Hardly groundbreaking.

Probs next week

Yeah it's pretty straightforward so i guess we could just add it now, only contested things is the ap but that can be change once we get a better scalings of the world.

Nice, can't wait for everyone having 6C via optional equipment :v

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

So we got 6-C Genshin or not?

 

[Jackpact]

We should since both calc for it is accepted.

Also it should be okay to add this since no more argument have been raise.