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Genshin Impact General Discussion!

Actually it would likely be 7-B or low 7-B. I know fate has a similar statement and that is being argued currently as 7-B or low 7-B rather then 7-A.
 
Yeah it is more of a supporting statement if anything. Considering how vauge it is. Once we calc the rest of the feats (Dvalin’s storm, I guess average hurricane for the Hypostasis, Lisa’s with CAPE.) we can agree on a tier, but they definitely have one is the tier 7 ranges.
 
Forgot that the value of busting a mountains is now 7-B or Low 7-B at best and as i expected, we can't truly trusted the statements and took that as supporting evidence/statements
 
Klee:
We see the Abyss Mage using that bomb in a cutscene. It's not that big of an explosion. It is also said that she "left a trail of destruction", implying multiple bombs were used, not just one. On top of that, there is no way this random dude got close enough to properly see her without getting nuked by a mountain busting explosion. This is also ignoring the fact that Klee would not be able to tank a mountain busting attack (y'all are crazy if you think she could) and her bombs aren't remote controlled.
Lisa storm (probably tier 7 with cape.):
I am personally very much against using any ingame animation that doesn't come from a cutscene, since the fightingstyle is vastly different compared to them and to manga. Even if you do want to use them, Lisa having a storm feat is already a massive red flag since she has an electro vision, not an anemo one. She literally shouldn't be able to have a storm feat and it likely boils down to a simple case of the animators thinking it would look cool and nothing else. With a game that gives as much lore as this, I feel like they would have mentioned "Lisa turning the sky purple" at some point. So even if we ignore all of this, no one (including herself) would scale to it, since she doesn't use it to attack. It is not something she can utilize at all at any given point.
Hypostasis statement:
"It is said that . . . " not "It is known that. . .". When reading the Hypostasis description it is also stated that basically nothing is known about it, outside of its classification, since people are too afraid to get close to them. Not even including the fact that even if we take it at face value, it means absolutely nothing. Someone having "infinite energy" only gives H 3-A if they can show that they can use it all at once. Same goes here.
Dvalin’s storm:
Questionable whether Dvalin can actually use it as AP, but even if he can, literally noone should scale even close to this (with the exceptions of possibly the Adepti, Zhongli, the Fatui Harbingers and maybe the unknown goddess, as well as Lumine and Aether before getting their powers stolen), since not even Venti does. You know, the literal wind god (which kind of invalidates Lisa's feat even more, since it is arguably more impressive by being faster). Also gotta love how if you just go by feats, it so far looks like this: Hypostasis > Lisa > Dvalin > Venti. Seems about right.

All those feats also completely ignore the (canon) manga, which actually shows a vastly different degree of strength, far closer to mid tier 9 to low tier 8.
 
Lisa's storm feat could still be ED and at least tier 8 because it's legitimate cloud to ground lightning.

If Dvalin's storms are caused by his physical presence or by flapping his wings, he scales.
 
Sir_Ovens said:
Lisa's storm feat could still be ED and at least tier 8 because it's legitimate cloud to ground lightning.

If Dvalin's storms are caused by his physical presence or by flapping his wings, he scales.
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Besides the fact that ED is the dumbest and most pointless thing ever and I have no idea why we still use it, how did you varify Lisa's lightning being cloud to ground lighning? RN in my single player world it is literally impossible to tell where they come from. Did you get onto co-op for that? If you say "it's in her skill description", let me tell you, Keqing's elemental burst says it can bring down stars, so I'd take them with one massive grain of salt. Also, again, it is very questionable how canon that attack even is.

Pretty sure neither is actually stated. Caused by his presence should definetly not scale. There is no reason to assume he can actually attack with such force, just because the clouds choose to follow him around.
 
Why would Lisa command clouds and not cast lightning from them?

Also to be fair, Paimon's cape is alluded to have literal stars so it is very possible that the verse will be stronger in the future
 
Sir_Ovens said:
Why would Lisa command clouds and not cast lightning from them?

Also to be fair, Paimon's cape is alluded to have literal stars so it is very possible that the verse will be stronger in the future
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Well, canonically she shouldn't be able to command clouds to begin with. She has an electro vision, not an anemo one. The moves they have in game are very different to how they actually fight in cutscenes, the manga or even on their own profile. Also, what's the issue with visually confirming where the lightning comes from?

Multi Solar system emergency food. I mean, it's funny, ngl.
 
RatherClueless said:
Multi Solar system emergency food. I mean, it's funny, ngl.
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I mean, Paimon is implied to be kinda strong, perhaps not in emergency food form but later down the line.

All the archons that we know of currently are named after demon lords from the Ars Goetia. The former storm archon Decarabian, current anemo archon Barbatos, current geo archon Morax etc. And would you believe it, Paimon is in there too.

And Paimon is also exponentially stronger than the other three in the Ars Goetia, being the commander of 200 legions compared to Morax, Decarabian and Barbatos who command 30 each only.
 
>Paimon is an all powerful deity- Excuse me... what the ****.

Ok about the Lisa storm point. I don’t care what you are against, we can clearly see her do it in game, the designers would have went far out of their way to make that storm animation, Who cares if the animators did it to look cool, it still happens when she does the thing; it doesn’t get more blatant than that and you need some serious semantics to make that attack somehow non-canon. Also the manga and others, while a viable source, isn’t anymore primary than the game, so why is it feats only need to be shown their? Everyone would scale to it too since it is her power causing that, why would Lisa be massively more powerful than everyone else? She has an Electro vision, yes but who is to say that she can’t control storm clouds because of it? We know that visions have some level of variety between them (Some have familiars like Fichil and Oz.)
So that debunking is bull.
 
00potato said:
>Paimon is an all powerful deity- Excuse me... what the ****.

Ok about the Lisa storm point. I don’t care what you are against, we can clearly see her do it in game, the designers would have went far out of their way to make that storm animation, Who cares if the animators did it to look cool, it still happens when she does the thing; it doesn’t get more blatant than that and you need some serious semantics to make that attack somehow non-canon. Also the manga and others, while a viable source, isn’t anymore primary than the game, so why is it feats only need to be shown their? Everyone would scale to it too since it is her power causing that, why would Lisa be massively more powerful than everyone else? She has an Electro vision, yes but who is to say that she can’t control storm clouds because of it? We know that visions have some level of variety between them (Some have familiars like Fichil and Oz.)
So that debunking is bull.
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Idk, if in game lore, the manga (which doesn't need balancing and game mechanics) and cutscenes all tell "this is not how they fight", I wonder why we should take them with a grain of salt, especially if the feat is massively inconsistant with . . . basically everything. Both Oz and Fischl actually come from a different world, so I am not 100% sure how Vision reliant that is (don't have them on friendship lvl 6), but even then, Oz is made up of lightning, clouds aren't, so I don't really see that point. That aside, even if we take it at face value it's an outlier, so there goes that.
 
TacticalNuke002 said:
I mean, Paimon is implied to be kinda strong, perhaps not in emergency food form but later down the line.

All the archons that we know of currently are named after demon lords from the Ars Goetia. The former storm archon Decarabian, current anemo archon Barbatos, current geo archon Morax etc. And would you believe it, Paimon is in there too.

And Paimon is also exponentially stronger than the other three in the Ars Goetia, being the commander of 200 legions compared to Morax, Decarabian and Barbatos who command 30 each only.
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Well, an archon gets their strength by acting as a god. So unless there is a hidden 8th country, which is even unknown to the gods, in which Paimon acts as a goddess, I don't see that happening.
 
It isn’t an outlier though. Also where does game mechanics and balance fall into this? Lisa’s storm is a background detail? It is unrelated to the fact that it is a game. Also it doesn’t matter if when you purely looking at feats, Liza’s is higher, scaling exists for a reason. We don’t downgrade characters for not having feats as high as characters blatantly shown as weaker. The writers didn’t need to show their strength with a flashy move, they instead show strength in relation to others. It is consistent too with other tier 7 storms too.
Dvalin has his storm feat and you even have a boss fight with him (Canonically Venti, the traveler and I think Jeane and Dilic were part of the fight. The fact that Venti brought everyone else there suggests that he needed their help.)
Hypostasis still have the hurricane statement too, doesn’t mean anything on its own it because of vagueness but it makes sense as consistent a feat when combined with the others, a vague storm like that isn’t inconsistent or an outlier when others exits that it could reasonably line up with.
Also Fichl is weird, I doubt we can take her statement of coming to another world as valid anyway, she is the type to say dumb fantastic stuff about herself.

Also more examples to what I meant before about variance, Amber can seemingly summon a fabric doll that dances and Xianling can do the same for her fire breathing summon. Niguang has a strange not stone or gem gate for her e as well. Not all moves need to be purely related to their elements, the storm feat isn’t even that illogical. Even if it was it would still stand because, we can clearly see it.
 
00potato said:
It isn’t an outlier though. Also where does game mechanics and balance fall into this? Lisa’s storm is a background detail? It is unrelated to the fact that it is a game. Also it doesn’t matter if when you purely looking at feats, Liza’s is higher, scaling exists for a reason. We don’t downgrade characters for not having feats as high as characters blatantly shown as weaker. The writers didn’t need to show their strength with a flashy move, they instead show strength in relation to others. It is consistent too with other tier 7 storms too.
Dvalin has his storm feat and you even have a boss fight with him (Canonically Venti, the traveler and I think Jeane and Dilic were part of the fight. The fact that Venti brought everyone else there suggests that he needed their help.)
Hypostasis still have the hurricane statement too, doesn’t mean anything on its own it because of vagueness but it makes sense as consistent a feat when combined with the others, a vague storm like that isn’t inconsistent or an outlier when others exits that it could reasonably line up with.
Also Fichl is weird, I doubt we can take her statement of coming to another world as valid anyway, she is the type to say dumb fantastic stuff about herself.

Also more examples to what I meant before about variance, Amber can seemingly summon a fabric doll that dances and Xianling can do the same for her fire breathing summon. Niguang has a strange not stone or gem gate for her e as well. Not all moves need to be purely related to their elements, the storm feat isn’t even that illogical. Even if it was it would still stand because, we can clearly see it.
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How is it not an outlier when characters like Amber are canonically around Hilichurl level and someone like Kaeya and Diluc maybe wall to small building level? There is no other feat from any other character that comes even close, except Dvalin, who doesn't scale to anyone anyways, excluding possibly active Archons, Adepti and maybe the Fatui Harbingers.
Yes, you have a boss fight with him, but you don't defeat him. You barely manage to break the crystal on his back . . . in a 1v4, the four being the acting grand master, a god, an otherwordly traveler and some guy making wine. This is not even talking about the fact that storm feats in general are increadibly whack and often dismissed because scaling them is awful.
I gave a very clear reason to why the Hypostasis statement is not usuable. Actually, I gave two reasons. 1: Basically nothing is known about them, except the name that people gave it. 2: Even if it was true, it literally doesn't matter. Just having the potential for something does not decide a tier.
Fischl coming from another world is not something she tells us. It comes directly from the lore.
Afaik Baron Bunny is crafted and not vision related. Ningguangs gate is made from gold and obsidian. Guoba, um, well . . . Yeah, no idea about this one.
 
>But Kaeya and Diluc are only walk to building level.
Wut: Diluc was straight up in the Dvalin fight. And it is a fight, he doesn’t just let you break the crystals, he fights back. If you didn’t scale at all it wouldn’t even be a fight.
About Ninguaga’s gate. It still shows the idea of variance. Geo just means earth, for all technical purposes it should just let you manipulate rocks and gems and whatever the transparent part of the gate is. Some geo weilders like Noel just manipulate it seemingly as energy like with her Q (unless it is some form of crystal which still proves my point. If Geo allows for all of that diversity, some Electro visions letting you summon storms isn’t a big deal. Especially since Lisa is likely well read on her powers too.
I can check on Fishl but she was only an example and her vision should be similar. I know some other Electro guy has that wolf stand familiar guy. I don’t remember his name though.
 
00potato said:
>But Kaeya and Diluc are only walk to building level.
Wut: Diluc was straight up in the Dvalin fight. And it is a fight, he doesn’t just let you break the crystals, he fights back. If you didn’t scale at all it wouldn’t even be a fight.
About Ninguaga’s gate. It still shows the idea of variance. Geo just means earth, for all technical purposes it should just let you manipulate rocks and gems and whatever the transparent part of the gate is. Some geo weilders like Noel just manipulate it seemingly as energy like with her Q (unless it is some form of crystal which still proves my point. If Geo allows for all of that diversity, some Electro visions letting you summon storms isn’t a big deal. Especially since Lisa is likely well read on her powers too.
I can check on Fishl but she was only an example and her vision should be similar. I know some other Electro guy has that wolf stand familiar guy. I don’t remember his name though.
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We see them after the fight. No injuries. No torn clothes. Nothing. Did you see any of them getting hit? I sure didn't. Did you see them matching Dvalin at any point? I sure didn't. Not to mention that it's iffy whether his storm scales to literally any other attack he has, let alone his physical strength.
 
You literally did the whole fight in game. The game can show things through gameplay; if they never intended for you to fight Dvalin canonically than why would the quest line end with the boss fight (The first part even makes you use the traveler at least for the story bit.)? Your argument is that they didn’t bother to model injuries? That’s it?
Also the storm he did was with his power, considering that he uses Anemo based attacks when actually trying to harm you I don’t see why this storm would be massively stronger than those attacks.
 
00potato said:
You literally did the whole fight in game. The game can show things through gameplay; if they never intended for you to fight Dvalin canonically than why would the quest line end with the boss fight (The first part even makes you use the traveler at least for the story bit.)? Your argument is that they didn’t bother to model injuries? That’s it?
Also the storm he did was with his power, considering that he uses Anemo based attacks when actually trying to harm you I don’t see why this storm would be massively stronger than those attacks.
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Yes, you do the fight in game. After that you have a cutscene where you see all the characters pretty much unfazed. Even if they were too lazy to add any injuries, there is no statement about it either. Not even about exhaustion. Vision holders are canonically just regular, squishy humans. If they get hit by Dvalin, whether tier 7 or not, they are dead. Non of the character that partook in the fight had any kind of defensive ability. Long story short, they likely avoided the attacks, rather than tanking them.
Creating a storm isn't an attack. For example, lifting weights above your head and punching are both physical and both require energy. Lifting needs more energy than punching, but isn't an attack. They don't scale to each other. Why should a non attack based move scale to all his attacks? Was it stated? Was it shown? Was it even implied? No? Huh.
Btw, did you read the manga? Do you know of the feats there? Like Aber being scared of fighting 3 Hilichurls. Jean and Ambers combined attack barely creating an explosion the size of a house. Jean getting "severely" injured by an opponent that managed to oneshot a Hilichurl (apparently that's impressive), who then got nuked by the afformentioned explosion. A character who fought on equal terms with Kaeya being afraid of flying with Amber, because she thought she'll fall to death. The list goes on and on.

Edit: Actually, I just noticed. The explosion created by Jean and Amber was only that great because they lit up two explosive barrels, lol. Wasn't even their own strength. Fire Slime > Jean and Amber confirmed xD
 
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You know what? Nah, just because the manga has more shown of "that" you said aboves, doesn't mean its the allmighty of the feats

That mean i'm sided with Potato and the other, because i can't trust you and the manga
 
Why would something he is doing pretty much passively like the storm not scale to his actual direct offensive uses of Anemo? They are pretty much the same, just because one is not an attack doesn’t mean that it can be massively stronger for no reason; that is illogical.

You are right that we cannot see how the fight went down in canon but we do have the in-game right to go off of. That requires you to hurt Dvalin himself to get to the crystals. Also the idea that they were able to fight him without getting hit once is ridiculous.

Also let’s look at the manga feats

1 Billy Jean and Amber’s Explosion. It is lower yes but the existence of lower feats doesn’t invalidate the higher feats, especially when their are more than a few of them.

2 Amber is scared of Hilichurls and the other Hilichurl feats..... ok so? The tiering of Hilichurls has no bearing on this. Why can’t Hilichurls backscale to the protagonists? I don’t see how hilichurls possibly being able to hurt the protagonists has any bearing on this when we lack an inherent power level for them in the first place.
 
Veloxt1r0kore said:
You know what? Nah, just because the manga has more shown of "that" you said aboves, doesn't mean its the allmighty of the feats

That mean i'm sided with Potato and the other, because i can't trust you and the manga
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Not saying it is allmighty or even that it shows more. It's simply a similar case to HI3rd. Manga >>>> Game in terms of actually telling the story, being consistant, making sense, over all information, etc., because it isn't as limited as the game in how it can tell the story.
 
But the manga isn’t any more canon than the games though.
Also none of the game feats have anything to do with balance or mechanics. Lisa’s is a background detail, Dvalin’s feat is mainly a plot point and so is his boss fight. The Hypostasis comes from an item description. The fact that it comes from a game would have no effect on the validity of these feats.
 
00potato said:
Why would something he is doing pretty much passively like the storm not scale to his actual direct offensive uses of Anemo? They are pretty much the same, just because one is not an attack doesn’t mean that it can be massively stronger for no reason; that is illogical.

You are right that we cannot see how the fight went down in canon but we do have the in-game right to go off of. That requires you to hurt Dvalin himself to get to the crystals. Also the idea that they were able to fight him without getting hit once is ridiculous.

Also let’s look at the manga feats

1 Billy Jean and Amber’s Explosion. It is lower yes but the existence of lower feats doesn’t invalidate the higher feats, especially when their are more than a few of them.

2 Amber is scared of Hilichurls and the other Hilichurl feats..... ok so? The tiering of Hilichurls has no bearing on this. Why can’t Hilichurls backscale to the protagonists? I don’t see how hilichurls possibly being able to hurt the protagonists has any bearing on this when we lack an inherent power level for them in the first place.
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Natural disatser that spreads all the way to the horizon = comparibly tiny magic ball. Mkay. Also, I gave a reason why you can't just scale them like that.

How is that ridiculous? Jean has been stated to be faster than the eye can see and if you go by gameplay (like you seemingly like to do), it is actually very easy to get through the stage without taking damage.

Jean wasn't able to even scratch her opponent. That tiny explosion managed to defeat said opponent. Said opponent managed to injure Jean. Idk, but this shows her limits very clearly. There really isn't any room for debate here. Also, even if you have 10 tier 7 feats, if the verse shows that characters are consistsantly limited (that's the key word here) to tier 9-8, they are simply discarded as outlier or PIS, which we do a bunch. The thing is, we don't have 10 tier 7 feats. We have 2 ED feats, which don't scale to anything or anyone, with one of them likely being an outlier anyways.
 
00potato said:
But the manga isn’t any more canon than the games though.
Also none of the game feats have anything to do with balance or mechanics. Lisa’s is a background detail, Dvalin’s feat is mainly a plot point and so is his boss fight. The Hypostasis comes from an item description. The fact that it comes from a game would have no effect on the validity of these feats.
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It kind of is, actually. With characters like Childe using a bow, Kaeya using a sword or Diluc and Xinyang using a claymore, it is pretty obvious. (Although, tbf, Diluc might get a claymore down the line, since the manga takes place a little bit before the game). The manga is also more detailed and tells the story in a clearer and more structured way. Out of curiosity, have you played/read HI3rd?
Dvalin and Lisa's feats are both ED and have no evidence that they scale to anything. Giving Lisa a tier 7 key is also increadibly pointless, since she can only hit in the 8-C damage range anyways. I already said that the Hypostasis one is completely unusable. It is vague, unconfirmed and even if taken at face value it means nothing.

Edit: Nevermind about Diluc. I got his vision and his fathers delusion mixed up.
 
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AOE fallacy, do you think that the balls have to be the size of the size of the storm to have similar amounts of power? That is 1 impossible to animate in a game and 2 by that logic all attacks would have to scale from size rather than what their logical power would be.

Their is no evidence of the verse being limited to a certain tier though, all you have is Jeanne struggling to hurt someone else without a known durability , Amber being worried about characters without known stats, and the existence of a couple of lower feats. Just having lower feats doesn’t make the tiering unacceptable. Not every fight in Dragon Ball needs to destroy large chunks of the galaxy, not every attack in a tier 7 verse needs to have the AOE to destroy a city. That would be a pain to write and is illogical.

Also didn’t you show distaste for the idea of ED earlier in the thread? About ED, it is illogical to say that this feat, dine using the magic power of each character, would randomly be far stronger than their actual attacks. If Lisa had the power to consistently call that many clouds for a storm, and most enemies were only like tier 9-8, why would she not just one shot everyone. Same goes for Dvalin, if he could easily summon that storm, why would he attack with projectiles massively weaker than that?

About Jean and the gang somehow dodging everything. If Dvalin was somehow far slower than everyone else, allowing four people to avoid literally everything he can do on those small platforms without visible exhaustion, he wouldn’t be considered as much of a massive threat to even the knights now would he? Also in the actual fight the traveler, while being amped by Venti to let him fly, still needs to use a series of Anemo boosts just to tail him. So why would he somehow be far slower letting the cast dodge everything with no signs of exhaustion. Unless everyone, including Venti is suddenly a skill god who can dodge attack from a massive storm controlling dragon with similar speed to them and break all of the crystals from his back despite one of them being behind his head. Again doing this flawlessly. A more reasonable idea is that they just didn’t bother to animate injuries or exhaustion.
 
00potato said:
AOE fallacy, do you think that the balls have to be the size of the size of the storm to have similar amounts of power? That is 1 impossible to animate in a game and 2 by that logic all attacks would have to scale from size rather than what their logical power would be.

Their is no evidence of the verse being limited to a certain tier though, all you have is Jeanne struggling to hurt someone else without a known durability , Amber being worried about characters without known stats, and the existence of a couple of lower feats. Just having lower feats doesn’t make the tiering unacceptable. Not every fight in Dragon Ball needs to destroy large chunks of the galaxy, not every attack in a tier 7 verse needs to have the AOE to destroy a city. That would be a pain to write and is illogical.

Also didn’t you show distaste for the idea of ED earlier in the thread? About ED, it is illogical to say that this feat, dine using the magic power of each character, would randomly be far stronger than their actual attacks. If Lisa had the power to consistently call that many clouds for a storm, and most enemies were only like tier 9-8, why would she not just one shot everyone. Same goes for Dvalin, if he could easily summon that storm, why would he attack with projectiles massively weaker than that?

About Jean and the gang somehow dodging everything. If Dvalin was somehow far slower than everyone else, allowing four people to avoid literally everything he can do on those small platforms without visible exhaustion, he wouldn’t be considered as much of a massive threat to even the knights now would he? Also in the actual fight the traveler, while being amped by Venti to let him fly, still needs to use a series of Anemo boosts just to tail him. So why would he somehow be far slower letting the cast dodge everything with no signs of exhaustion. Unless everyone, including Venti is suddenly a skill god who can dodge attack from a massive storm controlling dragon with similar speed to them and break all of the crystals from his back despite one of them being behind his head. Again doing this flawlessly. A more reasonable idea is that they just didn’t bother to animate injuries or exhaustion.
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That is not what AoE fallacy is, lol. AoE fallacy is a small area taking damage being an indicator of low amounts of energy. That isn't my point. You said "they are basically the same", which they aren't. They are completely different in nature, execution and yes, size. Also, if anything my argument wouldn't be "Dvalin's attack should be larger", but "Prove that he can compress an entire storm into that attack." Just for the sake of it, lets just look at the logical consequenz of what you have said so far: Dvalin, Lisa and the Hypostasis hit like a nuke. Jean can tank a nuke. Jean couldn't even scratch an opponent that could injure her. It took two pyro slime barrels to blow him up. Amber somewhat scales to Jean and Hilichurls somewhat scale to Amber. Even normal people without a vision can fight Hilichurls. Literally everyone in Teyvat hits like a nuke and pyro slimes are the deadliest creatures there are.

There is a known durability. Lol. The stats are known. What are you even on about? A couple? Way more than there are high tier feats (and most of them show limits).

Yes, ED is dumb and illogical. When did I ever say otherwise? Lisa barely has any story action, so who knows if she can. Her attacks are lightning that comes from the storm and not the storm itself. Equalising them is illogical. Why Dvalin would attack with projectiles rather than a storm? Because a storm isn't an attack and deals no damage maybe? What kind of question is that?

He wasn't necessarily considered a threat to the knights, but to Mondstadt as a whole. Honestly, the biggest thread he posed was the Fatui using the situation to gain power within Mondstadt, rather than his destructive power.

Running isn't flying. That's all I'll say to that point.
 
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@00potato
 
But the point is why would his attacks be massively weaker this is a massive straw man but what do I expect from someone on this kinda logic. I never claimed he would attack with a storm (again straw man.) If he could exert that much force with his Anemo, why would he use attacks that are suddenly far weaker to hurt people that are trying to attack him? If Lisa could exert that much force with her Electro to summon the storm, why would the attack itself be far weaker if they come from the same source of power? Why would they handicap themselves like that?

Also even if we downplayed everyone to 9-A or whatever you want, the pyro slime would still have that higher than jean scaling since two of the barrels would kill someone who she could not hurt the inconsistency is still their. And that stupid tirade assumes that everyone is somehow even rather then up or downscaling, which is a thing. It took four people to take down Dvalin, Jeanne was alone on that fight. Dvalin flies in his boss fight a lot, even to attack so it would scale just lower. It is not like your proposal lacks inconsistencies as the feats I already presented would suddenly be invalid for no reason and the plot relevant Dvalin fight wouldn’t make any sense at all.

If he wasn’t considered a threat to the knights, the main millitary. Than the whole first arc wouldn’t have happened since they would have been under control. Being a threat to Monsdat as a whole would include the knights.
 
Me: Please prove to me that his attcks have the same force as a condensed storm, because if that was the case the entire scaling whould be whack.
You: But the point is why would his attacks be massively weaker this is a massive straw man but what do I expect from someone on this kinda logic.

We don't even scale attacks to one another without any evidence. Why would we scale a non combat based ability to combat based one, only because they share an element!? That aside, for all we know the winds might just obey Dvalin without him even needing to exert any energy at all. Storm feats are frowned upon and often disregarded for a reason.

You: Same goes for Dvalin, if he could easily summon that storm, why would he attack with projectiles massively weaker than that?
Me: Why Dvalin would attack with projectiles rather than a storm? Because a storm isn't an attack and deals no damage maybe? What kind of question is that?
Also You: I never claimed he would attack with a storm (again straw man.) If he could exert that much force with his Anemo, why would he use attacks that are suddenly far weaker to hurt people that are trying to attack him?

You literally said "why use attaks if he could summon a stronger storm". Bruh.

You: If Lisa could exert that much force with her Electro to summon the storm, why would the attack itself be far weaker if they come from the same source of power? Why would they handicap themselves like that?

You actually out here saying lightning should scale to the storm it comes from? I couldn't make it up, even if I wanted to.

You: the pyro slime would still have that higher than jean scaling since two of the barrels would kill someone who she could not hurt the inconsistency is still their

The inconsistancy is not Pyro Slime explosion > Jean, but Pyro Slime explosion > everything else.

You: And that stupid tirade assumes that everyone is somehow even rather then up or downscaling, which is a thing.
Also You: Why can’t Hilichurls backscale to the protagonists? I don’t see how hilichurls possibly being able to hurt the protagonists has any bearing on this when we lack an inherent power level for them in the first place.

Unless you are going to tell me that scaling allows for a margin of error within the x10^10 range, Imma claim bs on this one.

You: It took four people to take down Dvalin, Jeanne was alone on that fight.

Are you contradicting yourself within the same sentence or are you talking about the fight against the weird Fatui golem? Well, not like it matters, since she wasn't alone in either one.

You: It is not like your proposal lacks inconsistencies as the feats I already presented would suddenly be invalid for no reason and the plot relevant Dvalin fight wouldn’t make any sense at all.

Bruh. So every child in Teyvat being a Tsar bomb level threat is more consistant than his storm simply not scaling to his basic attacks!? HOW!?! Also, your arguments aren't invalid "for no reason". I gave bare minimum 3-5 reasons why each one of them makes no sense on their own and that even if you do take them at face value they can't be used. You still haven't properly addressed any of my points outside of "why not?" and "seems consistant".

@00potato
 
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