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Genjutsu Stuff

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UchihaSlayer96

UchihaSlayer96

He/Him
VS Battles
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Hello everyone!

I'm gonna be taking a minor detour from fixing the profiles to do something relatively important for the verse, when it comes to VS threads.

So genjutsu potency in Naruto is a topic that frequently comes up in VS threads involving the verse. It's no secret that genjutsu users are some of the most popular characters people use in VS threads, and genjutsu is probably the verse's most prominent win condition, for better or worse.

With that in mind, I thought it would be a good idea for people to have an officially accepted reference for the verse's genjutsu potency. Once we settle on it, I'll create a blog, and add it to the verse page for easy access.

Without further adieu, here's what I've got so far when it comes to genjutsu and genjutsu resistance potency in Naruto. This is just my personal take on it.

vsbattles.fandom.com

UchihaSlayer96/Genjutsu Potency

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com

As I briefly touched on in the sandbox, there's a number of profiles that currently have resistance to Illusions and Mind Manip for incorrect reasons. As I explain in the sandbox, people breaking free from genjutsu using the standard genjutsu breaking techniques should have Genjutsu Nullification, not resistance. This extends to Perfect Jinchūriki and Biju as well. These guys have no resistance whatsoever. They literally use the standard genjutsu breaking technique, but in a more convenient way, as they are natural two manned cells.
I also don't wanna hear about people like Obito having higher potency for putting a Perfect Jinchūriki under genjutsu, as that speaks nothing towards his potency since they have no resistance in the first place.

Here's another sandbox that details the changes that need to be made. Any character with incorrect resistances will be affected by this.

vsbattles.fandom.com

UchihaSlayer96/Genjutsu Breaking

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com

The only possible point of contention regarding this is whether or not people like Sakura and Kakashi should also get Resistance to Illusions and sleep manipulation for being able to notice the genjutsu (Temple of Nirvana, in this case) is being used in the first place. The arguments on both sides of this sepctrum (AFAIK) are as follows:
A. They didn't fall for the genjutsu, hence they resist illusions.
B. The Jutsu just has a weakness towards very perceptive people, who then quickly break it before it affects them.

Honestly, I'm neutral on this particular point, and don't care which way we go with it. So I'll leave the decision on this one to ya'll.

I also don't care too much about what we decide on regarding the potency. I don't have overly strong opinions on it tbh. I just know it needs to be settled. So if ya'll have different opinions than what I've proposed, that's perfectly fine.

The only thing I'm determined to do here is to get the potency settled and add it to the verse page, and remove the incorrect resistances. That's all.

So, yeah, let's discuss!
 
Yeah, that makes sense. Now a bunch of VS Threads that relied on the Naruto Characters having Resistance to Mindhax are probably going out the window. Also, there's Typo in Option A.
 
What about characters that have Byakugan like AO or the Hyugas that are able to spot genjutsu and resist them or sage mode users like Hagoromo or rinnegan users like Kaguya, Momoshiki and Urashiki?
 
UchihaSlayer96 said:
Read the sandbox.
Click to expand...
I already did. None of the character I mentioned got mentioned in yout post. You said the byakugan<MS in potency but Ao could resist and figure out Shisui's MS when everyone was under it. Momo, Kaguya and Urashiki should also be resistant to it except you werent talking about non shinobis. Am I getting something wrong?
 
Can you give me context of what this is about, to see if the genjutsu affects (although that is already there) or the characters that have resistance to genjutsu (resistance to mental manipulation)
 
Tdjwo said:
I already did. None of the character I mentioned got mentioned in yout post. You said the byakugan<MS in potency but Ao could resist and figure out Shisui's MS when everyone was under it. Momo, Kaguya and Urashiki should also be resistant to it except you werent talking about non shinobis. Am I getting something wrong?
Click to expand...
Okay, so....
The Ao thing is NOT resistance, mate. He's not resisting anything at all. He just noticed disturbances in chakra flow of other people with his Byakugan. He wasn't even the target of the Jutsu to resist it.
Byakugan users have Resistance via Mukai's feat from the Itachi novel.

Urashiki and Kaguya will have byakugan resistance, since they have a byakugan...
There's no need to mention everyone for things they already have. Kaguya will also gain Sharingan resistances via having the Rinne Sharingan.

Momoshiki gets nothing other than Byakugan resistances.
 
UchihaSlayer96 said:
Okay, so....
The Ao thing is NOT resistance, mate. He's not resisting anything at all. He just noticed disturbances in chakra flow of other people with his Byakugan. He wasn't even the target of the Jutsu to resist it.
Byakugan users have Resistance via Mukai's feat from the Itachi novel.

Urashiki and Kaguya will have byakugan resistance, since they have a byakugan...
There's no need to mention everyone for things they already have. Kaguya will also gain Sharingan resistances via having the Rinne Sharingan.

Momoshiki gets nothing other than Byakugan resistances.
Click to expand...
I understand now. Thanks.
 
Tdjwo said:
I understand now. Thanks.
Click to expand...
No problem.

In case it's still confusing, the sandbox (and subsequent blog) are meant to scale potency in a broad sense, not necessarily for each individual character.
 
Thank god you changed "resistance" with "nullification".

Some people should have resistance to said nullification like Itachi I'm presuming?
 
KingTempest said:
Some people should have resistance to said nullification like Itachi I'm presuming?
Click to expand...
I assume you're referring to when Nard couldn't break out of his Ephemeral? I always interpreted that as Itachi just ramping up his genjutsu's power. Like I said, that technique doesn't work on just any genjutsu.
 
I agree with everything, but not of the potency of Sasuke The Last genjutsu. To me it doesn't look like he has a stronger genjutsu than Infinite Tsukuyomi. To me it looks like he mastered his strongest genjutsu and not that he has the strongest.

Infinite Tsukuyomi is a true unbreakable genjutsu, Sasuke has the ability to prevent light from penetrating Susanoo, but never is it said that he has any immunity or ability to block without Susanoo, or break the genjutsu once he fell into it. And when it is said that the "Rinnegan can break another Rinnegan's genjutsu" is when Naruto asks him how they could free everyone from the genjutsu, and he says "Probably", not even he is sure and later in the history it was shown to us that the only way to break the jutsu is when a Rinnegan user and someone who has the chakra of the 9 bijuus make the seal together.
 
GTsek said:
I agree with everything, but not of the potency of Sasuke The Last genjutsu. To me it doesn't look like he has a stronger genjutsu than Infinite Tsukuyomi. To me it looks like he mastered his strongest genjutsu and not that he has the strongest.
Click to expand...
That is not what the statement says. It makes no such distinctions, so you asserting that is an extra unnecessary assumption in my view.
GTsek said:
Infinite Tsukuyomi is a true unbreakable genjutsu, Sasuke has the ability to prevent light from penetrating Susanoo, but never is it said that he has any immunity or ability to block without Susanoo, or break the genjutsu once he fell into it. And when it is said that the "Rinnegan can break another Rinnegan's genjutsu" is when Naruto asks him how they could free everyone from the genjutsu, and he says "Probably", not even he is sure and later in the history it was shown to us that the only way to break the jutsu is when a Rinnegan user and someone who has the chakra of the 9 bijuus make the seal together.
Click to expand...
The Susano'o's ability to block its light is completely attributed to his Rinnegan. Not to mention the fact that Hagoromo and Hamura weren't affected by it in the past, adding more support for Six Paths enhanced Dojutsu users resisting the IT.

GTsek said:
Sarada used genjutsu on Konohamaru in the genin exam arc.
Click to expand...
Anime only afaik. And even then, not sure how that helps since Konohamaru has no genjutsu resistance.
 
UchihaSlayer96 said:
The Susano'o's ability to block its light is completely attributed to his Rinnegan. Not to mention the fact that Hagoromo and Hamura weren't affected by it in the past, adding more support for Six Paths enhanced Dojutsu users resisting the IT.
Click to expand...
The moon did not yet exist at that time, Kaguya put entire nations in the Infinite Tsukuyomi without the use of the moon, which only serves as an range amplifier for the jutsu have a global scale. So that's why they weren't fallen it.
 
Stronger than Kaguya? this is definitely crazy. Your is argument based on Momoshiki and Kinshiki?
 
UchihaSlayer96 said:
I also don't wanna hear about people like Obito having higher potency for putting a Perfect Jinchūriki under genjutsu, as that speaks nothing towards his potency since they have no resistance in the first place.
Click to expand...
Well I agree with the Sandbox, but this goes whether for Resistance or Nullification
Setting someone that can nullify a certain fire underneath a fire they can’t nullify speaks about the potency of that fire, just like burning someone who has heat resistance with fire also speaks potency about the fire.
That’s just it there is no other way around it.
 
Milly_Rocking_Bandit said:
I think, adding more credence to Sasuke having the strongest Genjutsu, is the fact that he should be far stronger than Kaguya by that point.
Click to expand...
I mean The Last Sasuke is literally stated to be the strongest person on Team 7 at the time in the Novel, which means he's stronger than anything Naruto could pull out at the time which should include Six Paths Sage Mode + Boil Release which could straight up overpower Kaguya, so....
 
XSOULOFCINDERX said:
I mean The Last Sasuke is literally stated to be the strongest person on Team 7 at the time in the Novel, which means he's stronger than anything Naruto could pull out at the time which should include Six Paths Sage Mode + Boil Release which could straight up overpower Kaguya, so....
Click to expand...
That statement was made by Kakashi who knew nothing about The Last Naruto's fighting profess. Moreover, that statement makes no sense considering the fact that Naruto already defeated Sasuke and Kakashi was aware of that fact and still made that statement. I also heard the author of that novel was a massive Sasuke fan so the bias was pretty bound to show. The entire narrative and hype in the show puts Naruto equal or above Sasuke.
 
XSOULOFCINDERX said:
Yeah, that makes sense. Now a bunch of VS Threads that relied on the Naruto Characters having Resistance to Mindhax are probably going out the window. Also, there's Typo in Option A.
Click to expand...
̶W̶h̶y̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶I̶t̶a̶c̶h̶i̶'̶s̶ ̶l̶o̶s̶s̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶A̶l̶a̶k̶a̶z̶a̶m̶ ̶n̶o̶t̶ ̶a̶p̶p̶l̶i̶e̶d̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶h̶i̶s̶ ̶p̶r̶o̶f̶i̶l̶e̶.̶ ̶N̶o̶t̶h̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶a̶c̶c̶e̶p̶t̶e̶d̶ ̶h̶e̶r̶e̶ ̶c̶h̶a̶n̶g̶e̶s̶ ̶a̶n̶y̶t̶h̶i̶n̶g̶
 
Anyways I pretty much agree with the Genjutsu Potency Blog but I'm sorta neutral about The Last Sasuke's Genjutsu > IT.
 
I still disagree about Sasuke's Genjutsu > Infinite Tsukuyomi. I didn't think the statement says that, and he also doesn't have any feat, and the infinite Tsukuyomi literally has only one way to be broken and there's no way to do it alone, unless the person are a Rinnegan user and have the 9 bijuus chakra (Like Hagoromo for example).
 
GTsek said:
I still disagree about Sasuke's Genjutsu > Infinite Tsukuyomi. I didn't think the statement says that, and he also doesn't have any feat, and the infinite Tsukuyomi literally has only one way to be broken and there's no way to do it alone, unless the person are a Rinnegan user and have the 9 bijuus chakra (Like Hagoromo for example).
Click to expand...
wait,infinite tsukuyomi work because of the range(the moon)
 
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