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We use anime for the light fang calc
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Genjutsu Stuff
- Thread starter UchihaSlayer96
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That’s a tad different. We use anime for calcs (and only calcs) if the mechanics of a feat are unclear in the manga, like the Light Fang.
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- Thread starter
- #83
That's different. After multiple discussions over the years, people decided to use the anime to calc the feat, as it's somewhat ambiguous in the manga. That does not mean the anime is canon, or is used for anything else.
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Can you send me the thread that says we accept anime as non canon?
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no way
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And is this thread done?
- 10,901
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- Thread starter
- #87
There's no thread for it, it's just common knowledge.
Kinda. It seems to be accepted by all the staff who have commented here, but others seem to have some points of contention.
Granted, most of those were just arguments from incredulity pretty much, so I'll probably apply this some time tomorrow if nothing else comes up.
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For some reason, this thread seems to be derailed from its original point.
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Idk about that. The whole reason why the Uchiha blood/Sharingan were required to counter Tsukiyomi, was because Sasuke was the only one destined to fight Itachi. He already got beaten by it twice before, so narratively speaking it makes sense how he broke out of Tsukiyomi in their final battle.
Black Zetsu says that Sasuke overcame it himself (the databooks also suggests it btw), who's arguably a better source of info than Obito considering who he turns out to be.
And even if Itachi didn't put Sasuke in a powerful Tsukiyomi or he let him escape, it doesn't contradict the requirements needed to break Tsukiyomi if Sasuke didn't have the chance to break out of it by himself.
? From what I can tell, Tekka tried to use a genjutsu on Itachi who broke out of it with the Mangekyou then he stabbed him right afterwards. When did he use Tsukiyomi? Or am I missing something here?
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How come we can take Obito's statement as legitimate, but not Itachi's?
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Itachi lied the whole series
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And? Does that mean everything he said was a lie?
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No, but it does mean Obito’s statement likely has more legitimacy behind it.
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Itachi said his whole goal was to die by Sasukes hands to make him a "Hero"
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Isn't Obito's statement kinda contradicting since Sasuke did see through some of Itachi's genjutsu? It was just that he let him do it.
And I don't see how this contradicts Itachi's initial statement about Tsukiyomi. If Sasuke didn't have a chance to break through Tsukiyomi himself, what's there that suggests he couldn't do it? No one has shown breaking out of Tsukiyomi besides him, even if Itachi allowed him to do it. His statement can still be true, am I wrong?
And I don't see how this contradicts Itachi's initial statement about Tsukiyomi. If Sasuke didn't have a chance to break through Tsukiyomi himself, what's there that suggests he couldn't do it? No one has shown breaking out of Tsukiyomi besides him, even if Itachi allowed him to do it. His statement can still be true, am I wrong?
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- Thread starter
- #97
Zetsu's knowledge is irrelevant. He's not a Sharingan or MS wielder, so he's automatically a worse source than Obito and Itachi. And, like, seriously, Zetsu is a wealth of misinformation, man. He gets so much shit wrong, it's hilarious. It doesn't matter, anyway. Zetsu didn't know Itachi's true intentions, Obito did. That makes hi a far better judge of these events.
Mate, it does contradict it. We have a direct statement contradicting it. I mean shit, we have another statement putting even MS Sasuke below Tsukuyomi, and you wanna scale 3 Tomoe Sasuke above it? No.
Yes, my bad. I got confused between Tekka and Yashiro Uchiha. Yashiro is the one Itachi used Tsukuyomi on.
Because Itachi is a notorious liar. Because that whole fight was a big, oscar worthy, act meant to make Sasuke truly believe that Itachi was a bad guy trying to steal his eyes, when in reality he just wanted to take care of Orochimaru for him and make him a hero through "killing him". Because we have a direct statement from Obito straight up confirming these things.
Like, idk what to tell you, but you have an EXTREMELY heavy burden of proof if you want us to ignore all of this.
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he wasn't even affected by Tekka's genjutsu. And I think Obito wasn't lying just because we see something that looks like Sasuke breaking out of it. It would just imply Itachi stopped the genjutsu. This is also supported by the fact that Danzo stated Sasuke's genjutsu isn't as good as Itachi's, and that Itachi was literally holding back to test Sasuke anyways
Oh, and Edo Itachi used his Tsukuyomi on Sasuke even though Sasuke had Itachi's eyes at the time, though Sasuke wasn't trying to use the Sharingan to break out of it
Oh, and Edo Itachi used his Tsukuyomi on Sasuke even though Sasuke had Itachi's eyes at the time, though Sasuke wasn't trying to use the Sharingan to break out of it
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But the events of Sasuke and Itachi's fight was recorded through Zetsu. Zetsu is arguably one of the best sensors in the Narutoverse and also had more knowledge than literally anybody else in the series. It really doesn't matter whether he knew about the truth behind Itachi when the battle was something he saw himself, that later Obito saw.
And I don't really find it fair to discredit Zetsu's info, when Obito himself happens to be a notorious liar and manipulator.
I'm not trying to say Sasuke's genjutsu prowess is higher than Itachi's. It's just that he has the requirements to break out of Tsukiyomi by himself.
Ah right. Is there any context behind Itachi using Tsukiyomi on him? Did he even have his Sharingan activated?
Obito is also a liar you know. And besides I don't see why Itachi needs to lie about something like that.
I'm not ignoring it. It's just that even if you factor in Obito's statement, it still doesn't really contradict Itachi's initial statement.
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Because he is? He lied about Madara's past, lied about his identity and lied about the nine tails attack to Sasuke. His goal was to manipulate Sasuke, so him altering events to suit his plan makes sense.
Ah right. Btw when does it say he used Tsukiyomi? Also, even if Yashiro got affected by Tsukiyomi that still doesn't contradict Itachi's statement.
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He used the Tsukuyomi right after that, and Yashiro would have no reason to just disable his Sharingan
His goal was to manipulate Sasuke by telling him stuff that would convince him to join the Akatsuki and destroy Konoha, lying to him about him not seeing through Itachi's Genjutsu wouldn't help with this at all, so no reason to say he was lying here
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Ah okay. Thanks for the confirmation.
And Itachi had no reason to lie about the requirements to break out of Tsukiyomi. Obito could have said that just to weaken Sasuke's mindset even more, and his statement is kinda contradicting since Sasuke did see through some of Itachi's illusions.
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- Thread starter
- #104
The statement simply confirms that Itachi let him. Besides, when they were trading genjutsu, both had 3 tomoe Sharingan active, so it's completely irrelevant to this discussion.
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And how does that contradict Itachi's initial statement about Tsukiyomi?
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- #106
If every piece of lore, every feat, and every statement, with the exception of a statement and feat said and done by a questionable source, point towards Tsukuyomi being above Tsukuyomi being above the regular Sharingan, and even the Mangekyō Sharingan; then how is a generic Sharingan + Uchiha blood being all that's required to break it NOT contradicted?
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Ngl I'm a bit confused with what you said, but I think I kinda understand.
If every piece of lore, every feat, and every statement, with the exception of a statement and feat said and done by a questionable source, point towards Tsukuyomi being above Tsukuyomi being above the regular Sharingan, and even the Mangekyō Sharingan; then how is a generic Sharingan + Uchiha blood being all that's required to break it NOT contradicted?
Itachi stated only an Uchiha with a Sharingan can counter Tsukiyomi. He didn't say that every Uchiha with the Sharingan could counter it. Which makes sense since the only people who should be able to break out of Tsukiyomi have Uchiha blood and the Sharingan (that being Madara, Sasuke, Obito and maybe Shisui). I still don't see how his statement is contradicted.
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- #108
Look man, we can't apply it to the potency chains. It's too general, with very little support, and has two anti-statements and an anti-feat; it's that simple.
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I don't really see them as anti-feats/statements tbh, but I get why it can't be applied. Ig I'll yield then.
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Have we ever seen someone break out of even a single illusion of someone who's sharingan is stronger than theirs?
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- #111
Other than Sasuke, which we all agree is an invalid example, I don't think so.
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- #112
Oops, completely forgot about this lol.
This was accepted by several staff and regular members alike, so should be good to go.
I applied the change from resistance to nullification for most of the affected characters, except Naruto. I'll add it to him when I get his profile unlocked.
Also, here's the blog:
vsbattles.fandom.com
I'll add it to the verse page now.
Thanks for helping out everyone, and have a good day!
Closing.
This was accepted by several staff and regular members alike, so should be good to go.
I applied the change from resistance to nullification for most of the affected characters, except Naruto. I'll add it to him when I get his profile unlocked.
Also, here's the blog:
Naruto: Genjutsu Potency
vsbattles.fandom.com
I'll add it to the verse page now.
Thanks for helping out everyone, and have a good day!
Closing.
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