Gear 5 Luffy vs Otsutsuki Kaguya

[Godernet]

Just noticed speed is isn't equalized. Who's the faster of the two?

Base Kagura is faster than SPSM KCM Nard who is 2c., IT Kaguya is exponentially faster than that according to Zetsu and higher with reactions(via Byakugan and Rinne-Sharingan)

Luffy is either 5c or 8c, and higher with reactions(via Kenbun) and Gears.

 

[karo_senpaii]

Base Kagura is faster than SPSM KCM Nard who is 2c., IT Kaguya is exponentially faster than that according to Zetsu and higher with reactions

Luffy is either 5c or 8c, and higher with reactions and Gears.

She is able to blitz sasuke who is 2c actually , both naruto and her are higher.

Also the 8c kaido calc was nuked

 

[LordGinSama]

If it's 8c that's roughly a 4x speed advantage on top of his speed amps.

 

[Godernet]

If it's 8c that's roughly a 4x speed advantage on top of his speed amps.

I forgot the 8c calc got nuked, regardless even if its a 2x or 4x amp in speed it isn't that impossible to deal with for Nard characters.

people will get amped by higher than 5x their normal speed with the gates(and arguably Chidori) and still get kept up with via skill, or some strong ass dojutsu sensory ability(the Sharingan lets you keep track of people blitz level amps higher in speed let alone the Rinne-Sharingan that Kaguya has.), not to mention her near omnidirectional vision with the Byakugan.

this also doesn't help the fact that Luffy has no reliable wincons.

 

[That_moron2]

Also the 8c kaido calc was nuked

No it wasn't.

 

[Godernet]

I just checked it’s not gone yet it depends if that one staff thread gets passed that would make the 8c thunder bagua one calc stacking

Whether it’s 5c or 8c, Luffy still has no wincons tho tbh

 

[That_moron2]

doesnt matter cause of her regen and immortality

even if you argue Luffy isn't getting tagged in a vacuum, if Kaguya decides to just start flooding a TSO with chakra until its too big to be dodged

he cant touch AKAB anyway to transmute it.

it kinda is a stomp

the planet range stuff isn't what I described above, i figured they were unnecessary to talk about but Kaguya had shown she can fuse with her dimension's environments giving control of everything in those dimensions(which are planet-sized)

I'm aware but Precog wont really help Luffy win just hold out and he still gets out stamina in the end

he doesn't as we've gone over in a lot of threads now Luffy nor anyone in OP have enough layers to get through Six Path GJ.

Her just flooding a TSO with chakra but not necessarily letting it reach ETSO sizes.

that's basically what i said but her normal attacks arent limited only to physical strikes.

the problem is he has no way of actually finishing her off.

he does if she just sticks a big TSO in front of Luffy or makes an omnidirectional shield around herself out of one.

it's more likely in the case where he tries to hold her down for 24 hrs(which is an incap wincon) because all she'd have to do is poke him with one or the other.

even if you think he avoids her attempts at killing him from close range or when he's using Bajrang Gun, Luffy doesn't have any wincons outside of those so he just runs out of G5 and loses anyways.

I'll get to this tomorrow.

 

[LordGinSama]

I'll get to this tomorrow.

Deceived moment.

 

[LordGinSama]

Whether it’s 5c or 8c, Luffy still has wincons tho tbh

I assume this is a typo?

Anyway how does Ishshiki vs Law sound? Both 5-C, wasn't sure if it was a fair MU or not.

 

[Kidkinsey]

I think he meant speed, as for isshiki vs law
If kaguya lost.....

 

[Godernet]

I assume this is a typo?

it is

Anyway how does Ishshiki vs Law sound? Both 5-C, wasn't sure if it was a fair MU or not.

ehhh

Isshiki is kind of a haxless meathead compared to Law, his best wincon is Karma parasitic revival in Law's body which won't even work in a vs battle since it takes too long.

I think you could argue a good case for Isshiki since Law's spatial cuts don't kill and Isshiki can use TK and flight to move despite being cut but Law is much easier to argue for.

Also, Isshiki is L5B, Base and Karma Jigen are 5C

 

[Kidkinsey]

The rods should also be a good win con since they can't be detected but yeah law just has more in his bag

 

[Thicc18]

Jkjk kaguya stomps ( just wanted to troll yaall )

 

[Nierre]

bro what in the ****??

 

[Loyd]

Bro spoil that shit for gore wtf

 

[Nierre]

That wasn't just gore, that was also NSFW

 

[That_moron2]

doesnt matter cause of her regen and immortality

Haki negates regen and if she doesn't have any organs then regardless of if she lives or not she can't do anything.

even if you argue Luffy isn't getting tagged in a vacuum, if Kaguya decides to just start flooding a TSO with chakra until its too big to be dodged

he cant touch AKAB anyway to transmute it.

Why would Luffy let her do that?
Fair though, doesn't it need to pierce for it to work?

it kinda is a stomp

Yeah, if we give Kaguya high regen then she stomps him.

the planet range stuff isn't what I described above, i figured they were unnecessary to talk about but Kaguya had shown she can fuse with her dimension's environments giving control of everything in those dimensions(which are planet-sized)

She has never been shown to be able, or at least never did manipulate her entire planet at the same time and uses the planet to attack isn't really making a difference.

I'm aware but Precog wont really help Luffy win just hold out and he still gets out stamina in the end

Yes it will, gives him an edge in close quarters combat meaning he can get the regen neg dura neg hits off.

he doesn't as we've gone over in a lot of threads now Luffy nor anyone in OP have enough layers to get through Six Path GJ.

I never agreed with that, and regardless Kaguya has never tried even once to put someone in a genjutsu during combat.

Her just flooding a TSO with chakra but not necessarily letting it reach ETSO sizes.

That just leaves her open for an attack.

that's basically what i said but her normal attacks arent limited only to physical strikes.

Luffy has a huge edge in cqc and we mutually agree that punches and kicks won't work so her beating him with physical attacks is barely a talking point.

he does if she just sticks a big TSO in front of Luffy or makes an omnidirectional shield around herself out of one.

it's more likely in the case where he tries to hold her down for 24 hrs(which is an incap wincon) because all she'd have to do is poke him with one or the other.

He's never gonna do that.

even if you think he avoids her attempts at killing him from close range or when he's using Bajrang Gun, Luffy doesn't have any wincons outside of those so he just runs out of G5 and loses anyways.

I feel that Luffy tagging her with Bajrang Gun is likely enough that he can for sure win.

 

[That_moron2]

Let's also not forget its totally in character for Kaguya to run away if Luffy places her in significant danger.



And she doesn't actually spam AKAB and TSOs for the first part of the fight. She only starts doing that after Naruto presses her, and Luffy's attacks are significantly more lethal than Naruto's

 

[Kidkinsey]

She uses the bones alot its how she ran through a hoarde of narutos

Bajrang gun is just massive target to get erased with a tso or open a portal and ash bone him from behind while he's throwing the fist

She can also do something like move them to the ice dimension trap him in the ice and portal ash bone combo that wat

 

[Crobatman44]

How will votes be tallied with OP banned btw?

 

[LordGinSama]

What caveats does the TSO have? I know that it can't effect natural based shit like Senjutsu.

 

[MeidoIzayoi]

Haki negates regen

Yeah, if we give Kaguya high regen then she stomps him.

Her regen should be high (as of rn) unless OP specified that her regen is only mid-high, which then Luffy can negate
but ig that's impossible since the guy who made the match is perma banned

 

[Godernet]

Haki negates regen and if she doesn't have any organs then regardless of if she lives or not she can't do anything.

not for her level of regen, for one she is the Juubi incarnate possessing Madara's body, she doesn't really need her organs to be alive.

Why would Luffy let her do that?

because he can't really kill him.

Fair though, doesn't it need to pierce for it to work?

yeah

Yeah, if we give Kaguya high regen then she stomps him.

She has never been shown to be able, or at least never did manipulate her entire planet at the same time and uses the planet to attack isn't really making a difference.

her power is described as taking control of the environment in the dimension which should be planet-sized with some even reaching the size of a star, given that she already shows the ability to make a TSO that would have kept expanding to the size of her dimension and someone inferior to her in Madara, can spread Tree Roots across the planet with his power, she likely can.

Yes it will, gives him an edge in close quarters combat meaning he can get the regen neg dura neg hits off.

which won't do anything to her level of regen

I never agreed with that, and regardless Kaguya has never tried even once to put someone in a genjutsu during combat.

She did it on the entire planet before fighting Hagaromo, which was the only time she could have because Hagaromo, Hamura, and Sasuke are immune to the ability.

saying that she won't when she's only had one fight in the entire series and one of the two people was completely immune to it is stupid.

That just leaves her open for an attack.

Luffy only has one attack that can beat her.

Luffy has a huge edge in cqc and we mutually agree that punches and kicks won't work so her beating him with physical attacks is barely a talking point.

she's not much of a physical brawler so its not that big of a deal.

The flowing Haki from Adv Buso won't even get through TSO without getting erased and deconstructed.

He's never gonna do that.

that's the only other chance he's got besides Bajrang,

it's not really in character but was trying to give him something.

I feel that Luffy tagging her with Bajrang Gun is likely enough that he can for sure win.

it really isn't.

its far more likely that Kaguya just touches Luffy's country-sized fist with a TSO or AKAB than Luffy tagging her with Bajrang before she either TPs herself out of the way or hits Luffy.

 

[Kidkinsey]

Her regen should be high (as of rn) unless OP specified that her regen is only mid-high, which then Luffy can negate
but ig that's impossible since the guy who made the match is perma banned

Damn what he do

 

[MeidoIzayoi]

Damn what he do

That wasn't just gore, that was also NSFW

 

[Godernet]

What caveats does the TSO have? I know that it can't effect natural based shit like Senjutsu.

they cant negate senjutsu attacks but only people with Six Path Sage chakra can touch them

 

[Kachon123]

The flowing Haki from Adv Buso won't even get through TSO without getting erased and deconstructed.

Is there proof that Buso Emission can be deconstructed?

 

[Godernet]

Is there proof that Buso Emission can be deconstructed?

what would need to be proved is that it can't be erased.

the default assumption would be that Adv Buso, like regular Buso is just a mental/spiritual energy, just that ADV is an application in which it is flowed outside of the body and forcibly pushed through things.

If that's the case TSO just neg it, since it works on chakra, people, objects, energy, etc.

 

[LordGinSama]

they cant negate senjutsu attacks but only people with Six Path Sage chakra can touch them

Senjutsu is essentially natural energy right? One could possibly argue that Haki is apart of the cycle of nature.

 

[MeidoIzayoi]

natural energy that exist from nature/atmosphere
meaning
with verse equalization, magic from Fairy Tail can be equalized to act like senjutsu from Naruto series with how FT magic works
idk about Haki tho

 

[Godernet]

Senjutsu is essentially natural energy right?

yes

One could possibly argue that Haki is apart of the cycle of nature.

Haki is about as close to nature energy as regular chakra is.

energy being a person's life force, mental energy, or soul wouldn't be the same as what Senjutsu is which is more atmospheric.

Luffy doesn't draw Haki from nature itself

and even if you were generous and argued that, it wouldn't let Luffy touch them since you specifically need Six Path Senjutsu to do that.

 

[LordGinSama]

Fair enough but isn't Yin and Yang just spiritual and physical force? I'm of course assuming there's a deeper explanation than this

 

[KingNanaya]

was about to just put kaguya FRA and move on with my life, knowing Kaguya slams in all vs matches, but damn

 

[karo_senpaii]

Fair enough but isn't Yin and Yang just spiritual and physical force? I'm of course assuming there's a deeper explanation than this

Yang and yin release is different from six path yang and yin style. The former is what you are reffering to. The latter is light and shadow style

 

[Godernet]

isn't Yin and Yang just spiritual and physical force? I'm of course assuming there's a deeper explanation than this

yesn't

Mental and Physical energy are the two aspects of a person that they fuse into one to create chakra, they don't explicitly call this Yin and Yang but it takes a lot of allusions from that Taoist concept.

Yin Release(Shadow Style) and Yang Release(Light Style) are two chakra nature transformations that exist outside the standard, fire, water, lightning, earth, and wind.

Yin uses mental energy to control imagination(most Genjutsu is Yin style.)

Yang is using physical energy to control vitality (there's not a lot of Yang Jutsu but Choji making himself big asf is considered one,)

you can also combine them into Yin-Yang Release which is an important part of TSOs.

There's also Nard and Sauce's juiced Six Paths Yin and Yang Seals but those are a bit different.

 

[Saqphire]

Kaguya stomps FRA. Luffy being 5c or 8c wouldn’t really matter against her BFR moving the world and not Luffy himself. Kaguya also just having more stamina is also one of her win cons as Gear 5 doesn’t last forever and has a disadvantage after it’s done.

Also I don’t see Luffy avoiding the ETSO which expands on until the dimension itself is destroyed so

 

[That_moron2]

This should be closed since op was banned.

 

[Jaakor48]

natural energy that exist from nature/atmosphere
meaning
with verse equalization, magic from Fairy Tail can be equalized to act like senjutsu from Naruto series with how FT magic works
idk about Haki tho

Isn't haki literally spiritual energy? Which is part of what normal chakra consists of?