Garou vs Muk

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Poison touch would activate by muk making contact, and garou needs to make contact to hurt muk, garou is getting poisoned no matter what, then since his range is shit muk can hit at range and has a stat decreasing move, and don't get me started on low high regen.

 

[SamanPatou]

I'll reply later more in deep, but Garou will bot get poisoned by touching Garou due to how the ability works.
Poison Touch and Poison Point are different. With the first the poison is trigger when Muk touches Garou, while with the second it's Garou the one who has to touch Muk.
But Muk doesn't possess Poison Point, only Poison Touch, meaning that Garou would be just fine by making contact with it.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Would it matter who touches who? They are still touching each other

 

[Popted2]

Would it matter who touches who? They are still touching each other

Bow Chicka Bow Wow

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

I should probably rephrase that lmao. Basically the ability says "Poison Touch: Muk making basic contact with the opponent has a chance to poison." This means if garou touches muk or vice versa then garou will get poisoned either way.

 

[FinePoint]

Poison Touch
"May poison targets when a Pokémon makes contact."
In battle, this does not trigger when it is hit, but only when it hits others.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Oh fair enough. The way they said it in the profile made it sound like simple contact is enough. Still it isn't impossible for muk to get a hit off.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Gotta remember than muk has stat reduction moves one of which auto-cute the opponent's speed in half and has no projectile

 

[SamanPatou]

To argue a bit more, I think Garou would still win but with difficulty.

This because his fighting skill, analytical prediction and instinctive reaction would make it impossible for Muk to land a hit, as moves like pound, bites and the likes aren't anything that can provide trouble to Garou.
The Water Stream style enables Garou to deflect (and possibly even reflect, I don't remember that) Muk's projectiles, making them ineffective. Dealing with many projectiles at once and moving to avoid them is also something Garou is used doing.
He would also quickly figure out Muk's pattern and moves, eventually predicting them and learn how it acts.

Garou also would likely keep the distance, as he would quickly figure out how punching a blob that spits poison-like stuff isn't the best approach.
He demonstrated skill in using the environment and anything he gets his hands on to attack from afar, take covering and so on. The battlefield (central park) offers a lot of stuff to work with (and Garou already fought in a similar place), including super effective dirt and ground Garou could use and hurl to Muk, while he keeps avoiding, deflecting, sending air waves and why not possibly deal a strike, though this is unlikely. And when it comes to stamina, Garou has plenty of it and can keep up and withstand damage for an extended period (though Muk's poison would screw him badly).

AoE, poisoning (which isn't always granted even when landing a hit) and stats manipulation surely are dangerous and would put him in difficulty (adaptation and reactiv evo could compensate and help him becomes stronger), but imho Garou would achieve victory more times than not.

 

[Epiccheev]

Garou has Low-mid regen, immense stamina and poison resistance to help him deal with poison/toxic attacks, not to mention his reactive evolution and adaptation increasing that resistance further as the battle goes on.
If anything, it's a battle of endurance between Garou's skill and survivability and Muk's stat amping/debuffing and poison.

I'd say Garou takes this, like when he fought the A-class heroes while injured and poisoned he showed he's not above doing things like keeping his distance from ranged fighters, counter attacking while using terrain as shield and throwing rocks as distraction and playing the long fight/focusing on strategy.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Will make an argument in a few mo utes but just want to point out that the poison group room was nothing compared to a muk

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Samanpatou has some really good points but Muk's AP advantage allows him to not only harm garou but poison him even when outclassed in skill, and this poison isn't ordinary expired milk, it's straight up radioactive doodoo water and not only that but he can nerf his stats when poisoned which make it even harder for garou, and finally garou can't properly hurt muk as he has blunt force resistance which garou uses plus insane regen and decent enough stamina. The strain on garou should be more than enough to weaken him for muk to beat him while muk has good enough stamina and regen to last in the fight.

 

[Epiccheev]

How big are Muk's AOE attacks? other than stuff like earthquake and unavoidable debuffs/ psychic stuff, i don't remember anything that would be that big of a problem without being followed by a speed debuff, seeing as Garou would be okay with focusing entirely on dodging deflecting and keeping his distance as he grows in power, like he did against Orochi.
Granted i stopped seeing the anime at Unova.

 

[Garchomp777]

Not too many of muk's attacks are AOE. Even Acid Spray is like a sludge, not an AOE spray of acid gas

 

[Garchomp777]

Bump

 

[Garchomp777]

Bump. 4 votes needed

 

[Garchomp777]

Bump

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Not really, poisoning isn't guaranteed and Muk also has Poison Touch, which requires it to hit Garou with a physical attack. You're mistaking it with Poison Point, which is the opposite and works when the opponent is the one to strike.

Muk's pokedx says that just touching it causes poisoning tho

 

[Rez]

Muk's pokedx says that just touching it causes poisoning tho

If this is true than mine vote goes to muk

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Muk (Pokémon)

bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net

"Becomes indistinguishable if it hides in dirt. Touching its sludge-covered body causes horrible poisonings. "

"Its body is made of a powerful poison. Touching it accidentally will cause a fever that requires bed rest. "

"What look like fangs and claws are actually crystallized poison that will afflict you at a mere touch, so don't get too close. "

 

[Garchomp777]

3 more votes. Any more arguments for garou

 

[The_Wright_Way]

Muk FRA

 

[ElixirBlue]

This should have been called "The Revenge of Sludge Jellyfish!"

 

[Garchomp777]

This should have been called "The Revenge of Sludge Jellyfish!"

Why revenge

 

[ElixirBlue]

Why revenge

Sludge Jellyfish wanted revenge on everyone he came across.

 

[SamanPatou]

Muk's pokedx says that just touching it causes poisoning tho

Fair enough on that, though it can be a mainland Muk-only thing.

But I stand by my point, as touching Muk is something really unlikely for Garou to do.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

But I stand by my point, as touching Muk is something really unlikely for Garou to do.

Then how exactly is garou going to attack muk? All his attacks are close range. What's he gonna do throw rocks?

 

[SamanPatou]

Probably yes, Garou has demonstrated to be crafty enough to use the environment to his advantage, like using trees as platforms, ways to hide or even weapons, or even pulling the roots to make other lose balance and so on. I don't see it so impossible for Garou to employ rocks, dirt and everything he csn find in Central Park as ways to attack a blob, given that he can clearly figure out that punching wouldn't be really effective. He can even send air slashes with Bomb's technique. All of this while easily avoid every physical approach and deflecting and/or reflecting projectiles. Sludge Wave is aoe, but it also travels on the ground and Garou would already keep the distance, and he can go on fighting for a long time. Adaptation, Reactive evo and Accelerated Development may even compensate for stats buffs and debuffs.

 

[FinePoint]

Probably yes, Garou has demonstrated to be crafty enough to use the environment to his advantage, like using trees as platforms, ways to hide or even weapons, or even pulling the roots to make other lose balance and so on. I don't see it so impossible for Garou to employ rocks, dirt and everything he csn find in Central Park as ways to attack a blob, given that he can clearly figure out that punching wouldn't be really effective. He can even send air slashes with Bomb's technique. All of this while easily avoid every physical approach and deflecting and/or reflecting projectiles. Sludge Wave is aoe, but it also travels on the ground and Garou would already keep the distance, and he can go on fighting for a long time. Adaptation, Reactive evo and Accelerated Development may even compensate for stats buffs and debuffs.

I believe Garou would at least initially try to punch it.

 

[Popted2]

true

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Garou doesn't have prior knowledge he will still punch muk and get poisoned. And muk has range plus an AP advantage and muks radioactive doodoo water level poison will wear garou down. If non of them can kill each other then it's inconclusive, but garou will eventually reach his limit.

 

[Garchomp777]

I think Saman means Garou wouldn't want to touch a disgusting looking rainbow Sludge thingy. However, muk can throw poison at garou, though garou can block it, they can melt

 

[SamanPatou]

You don't need to have prior knowledge to understand that punching a big puddle of sludge wouldn't be that effective.
Garou is also an expert and intelligent fighter, who dealt with weird monsters, it's not that unlikely for him to figure out this.
And the starting distance means that Muk will start spitting poison projectiles before Garou has the chance to get close and this will give him even more informations about Muk's nature. (and by SBA both characters know the opponent's appearance at the start of battle, regardless of the distance).

And Garou doesn't block projectiles, his fighting style deflects and redirects physical blows and projectiles, including energy and most likely even poison, and usually it negates the effects (like energy beams once redirected didn't burn the hands and blade slashes didn't cut), and poison attacks still don't have 100% guaranteed poisoning effect (even though it can mix with Muk's nature). And, if not poisoned, I think Garou could outlast Muk in stamina, or at the very least match it.

 

[FinePoint]

You don't need to have prior knowledge to understand that punching a big puddle of sludge wouldn't be that effective.

He literally does exactly this in-character. He physically hits Sludge Jellyfish.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Range attacks may not hit garou but he needs to touch it to deflect it, which means he makes contact with muk, which is muks win condition, as garou will just keep exerting himself while being poisoned by radioactive sewage doodoo liquid cheese running through his body. And his AP is not enough to damage muk by throwing rocks especially when muk has regen.

 

[Garchomp777]

Muk can use disable to counter attack reflection

 

[SamanPatou]

He literally does exactly this in-character. He physically hits Sludge Jellyfish.

I think that is due to SJ being weak and Garou was aware of it, he usually recognizes strong opponents and what he seens during the time he takes to get in close range to Muk would prove it, I believe.

Disable is part of the wincons I put for Muk, but it's temporary and I still see Garou noticing and try to evade more attacks until he feels its moves coming back. Granted, this also means that Disable has to hit him and we don't really know how it is performed. In the anime it's portraied in different ways but usually as a pshychic paralysis, but I'm not sure Muk can do it in the same way, and in the games (and Smash) it seemingly requires eye contact.

 

[Greatsage13th]

Muk FRA

 

[Garchomp777]

We need just 1 vote

 

[SamanPatou]

No, it's already grace, 7-2 is valid.