Garen vs Saber

[WeeklyBattles]

I did, Assalt did, Heinkel did, Ever did, and to a smallextent Matt did

 

[RegisNex1232]

You keep saying that, yet you keep dodging my questions/arguments and never give a straight answer.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Here are the answers to your arguments

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Is there any lore material stating how Garen's villain thing works?

Because if we're doing it purely from gameplay, I would say that him being able to affect people who really aren't villains is pretty blatant gameplay mechanics. I seriously doubt he considers people like Lux or Jarvan villains.

 

[RegisNex1232]

Where you kept ignoring me and refused to engage properly with me. Not an answer.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Monarch The lore and game blend together, how it works in the game is how it works in a fight

 

[RegisNex1232]

Is there any lore material stating how Garen's villain thing works?

Because if we're doing it purely from gameplay, I would say that him being able to affect people who really aren't villains is pretty blatant gameplay mechanics. I seriously doubt he considers people like Lux or Jarvan villains.

It is purely gameplay, as it works off the fact that the enemy team in a game has someone who has recently killed one/many of your teammates. No lore material suggests that Garen has DJ and knows how to use it. His magical capabilities are only hinted at by another champion's lines.

 

[Aeyu]

Hey, why is there a bunch of negativity in this thread here?

There was an argument for Saber, but why is there negativity anyway?

also

what's the argument

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Aeyu

For Saber: Much higher AP

For Garen: Faster with durability negation and magic negating armor and sword

 

[RegisNex1232]

Hey, why is there a bunch of negativity in this thread here?

There was an argument for Saber, but why is there negativity anyway?

also

what's the argument

I'm arguing for Saber as she has the AP/Durability advantage as well as her Excalibur for range and that Garen's feats involve assuming that gameplay mechanics are part of the champion's lore and not simply gameplay mechanics for the game itself.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Basically ignore what Regis says at this point as he's been told numerous times by mutiple members of staff to stop using the argument he's using but he refuses to do so

 

[RegisNex1232]

@Monarch The lore and game blend together, how it works in the game is how it works in a fight

Except he's never used it in a fight, and there are plenty of other abilities that champions have in game that they never show in lore. Hence gameplay shouldn't be used as valid evidence.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

@Monarch The lore and game blend together, how it works in the game is how it works in a fight

Ok, I'm going to need a bit more explanation on this, because Low 7-C people fighting being able to fight 3-B people seems to directly contradict that.

 

[RegisNex1232]

Once again, refusing to acknowledge my points.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

You can say that all you want but that doesnt make it correct as so many people have told you

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Ok, I'm going to need a bit more explanation on this, because Low 7-C people fighting being able to fight 3-B people seems to directly contradict that.

Same rules we use for Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat, them being able to fight vastly stronger characters on equal grounds is disregarded

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

@Regis Arguing that Garen doesn't have his iconic in-game attacks because they don't show up in the lore is dumb.

@Weekly But I'm not convinced that the mechanics of how they work in-game are identical to how they work in a non-gameplay-based situation

 

[RegisNex1232]

I could say the same about you too, ever consider that you might be wrong in this issue?

@Monarch, essentially Weekly's cherrypicking some gameplay abilities as lore canon to Garen, despite that not being the case and using that to scale a majority of the cast.

 

[PrettyFearMachine]

Voting Saber FRA

And no offense Weekly, but telling people to completely dismiss other's point is not a good thing

 

[WeeklyBattles]

I could say the same about you too, ever consider that you might be wrong in this issue?
@Monarch, essentially Weekly's cherrypicking some gameplay abilities as lore canon to Garen, despite that not being the case and using that to scale a majority of the cast.

If i were the only one arguing this then i might but nearly everyone who has told you no on this topic supports the fact that im not wrong in this case

 

[RegisNex1232]

How is that dumb, when there are plenty of other champions like Galio, Warwick, Sion, Graves, Fiora, etc, who never show off any abilities in lore that they 'should' have in game? Yet the wiki assumes that they do for no other reason than they must.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Voting Saber FRA
And no offense Weekly, but telling people to completely dismiss other's point is not a good thing

I dont think you understand, multiple staff members have told Regis to stop using the argument he's using here. He's going against staff warnings and orders by doing so.

 

[Bepo4151]

I wish I had a green name so i can wank characters, chose what votes are valid, insult people and get away with it.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Weekly But I'm not convinced that the mechanics of how they work in-game are identical to how they work in a non-gameplay-based situation

Every other showcasing of abilities in the lore is identical or near identical to what is shown in game, why should Garen's be any different?

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Yeah that was back when they retconned the old lore, when the Institute, Fields of Justice, and Summoners were the canon reason that game and lore were separated. Now that theyre gone not only is there nothing separating lore and game, but Riot themselves has come out and said that the game and lore are intertwined, but certain aspects for each are left out so as to not limit either one's potential for growth and change. That coupled with the fact that lore events have directly affected the game itself (ie. Gangplank "dying" during Burning Tides making him unavailable in-game) further strengthen the connection between lore an game.

So let me get this straight.

The entire premise of the game, the whole "settle things on the fields of justice where everyone is restricted to a certain powerlevel so we don't magically nuke everywhere again" is thrown aside. If that was all that happened, I'd just assume that practically everything that happens in-game is non-canon. But Riot comes out and says that the game and the lore are now intertwined. But the very existence of the game now contracticts the lore. Is there any mention in the new lore of the game?

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

The abilities of the champions in the game are reflective of their actual abilities, however, that doesn't mean that the game 100% replicates those abilities. Game balance and mechanics do take over after certain point.

EX: Ahri's Charm is a projectile in game. But we know from lore and other material that her charm isn't something you can just dodge. As cool as that would be in game, be charmed from all over the Fields of Justice by Star Guardian Ahri would be terrible for balance.

 

[PrettyFearMachine]

@Weekly

I don't see neither the staff members you mentioned nor them giving Regis a warning

Unless I'm missing something

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Weekly
I don't see neither the staff members you mentioned nor them giving Regis a warning

Unless I'm missing something

Yes, youre missing something, youre missing this

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Anyway, game mechanics and stuff aside for a moment

How much faster than Saber is Garen?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Monarch Garen is mach 1500, Saber is 900+ right?

 

[ThisIsMySwagPack]

It is not up to one person to decide that votes are invalid. Others should state their opinion on that as well.

 

[Bepo4151]

@Monarch Garen is mach 1500, Saber is 900+ right?

That calc is invalid. Asalt told you it assumes 55km as a low end which is wank. Should be cloud hight that is 2km.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

It is not up to one person to decide that votes are invalid. Other should state their opinion on that as well.

It is when the reasoning for the vote is based on arguments that multiple staff have told the voter to stop using

 

[RegisNex1232]

Riot has never explicitly stated that gameplay and lore are intertwined now more than before, and it would defeat the whole purpose of the retcon, where they couldn't add new stuff as it conflicted/was limited too much with/by the game.

 

[PrettyFearMachine]

@Weekly

Weird that people now agree with them

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Weekly
Weird how people now agree with them

They dont. the same people that support him her are the ones that supported him there

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Im in the process of getting a discussion rule made so this will stop happening

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

So let me get this straight.

The entire premise of the game, the whole "settle things on the fields of justice where everyone is restricted to a certain powerlevel so we don't magically nuke everywhere again" is thrown aside. If that was all that happened, I'd just assume that practically everything that happens in-game is non-canon. But Riot comes out and says that the game and the lore are now intertwined. But the very existence of the game now contracticts the lore. Is there any mention in the new lore of the game?

 

[PrettyFearMachine]

@Weekly

Well I wasn't there. Neither was Monarch

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Agreeing with Regis' vote =/= agreeing with his logic