Fully-sized higher dimensions question

[Greenshifter]

If a map exists of x amount of spatio-temporal dimensions which allows 3D beings to travel the multiverse. Would we assume those x amount of dimensions are fully-sized/significant?

 

[Greenshifter]

Bump

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

We always assume spatial dimensions are fully sized unless stated otherwise.

 

[Greenshifter]

I doubt that, if that were the case then every mention of y construct is x-dimensional would immediately grant said construct tier 2 or 1 AP.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

We always assume spatial dimensions are fully sized unless stated otherwise.

Afaik we don't

 

[Greenshifter]

Afaik we don't

Yeah all demons in DMC would be 1-C if we did that, not that I’m against that but yk

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Yeah all demons in DMC would be 1-C if we did that, not that I’m against that but yk

I mean, they kinda are or were... Depends on what happens at the end of the year

 

[Greenshifter]

Ok

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

I doubt that, if that were the case then every mention of y construct is x-dimensional would immediately grant said construct tier 2 or 1 AP.

Oh, you meant spatial dimensions, no you need proof for that. I thought you meant space-time continuums.

 

[Greenshifter]

Uhuh, do you think the reasoning I gave in the OP would be sufficient?

 

[Greenshifter]

Bump

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

I doubt that, if that were the case then every mention of y construct is x-dimensional would immediately grant said construct tier 2 or 1 AP.

Reason we don't is that this needs to be either infinite in size or universal.

Aka if you are only cube sized in x-dimension your axis isn't really infinite or universal in said axis thus making it not grant tier even if qualitative superiority is confirmed

 

[Greenshifter]

Pretty sure cube-sized would already be beyond compactified and thus count as fully-sized. But thx for your input.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Aka if you are only cube sized in x-dimension your axis isn't really infinite or universal in said axis thus making it not grant tier even if qualitative superiority is confirmed

Can you explain this a bit more, please?

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

Can you explain this a bit more, please?

if your 4 spatial coordinates are only 5meters each
then you're a 4-dimensional cube or should I say a hypervolume
Although you possess a 4th spatial axis that doesn't inherently grant a tier and is often tiered as unknown unless it has feats

in the FAQ this was mentioned

Unintuitive as that may be: Not necessarily, as a number of characteristics through which we quantify the strength or power of a character can remain unchanged when transitioning between higher and lower dimensions. For example: Mass is a quantity that is detached from the dimension of the object which it is inherent to, and unlike volume is not divided in units corresponding to each particular dimension (1-volume [length], 2-volume [area], 3-volume, 4-volume...). It is singular in nature and its units equally apply to all dimensions; whether it is distributed over an area or a volume only tells us about the span of space in which it is spread, not about the quantity itself.

As a consequence of that, much of the calculation methods which are used to measure strength apply equally to both higher and lower dimensions, as they do not care about the extra variables and often work with a single one of them. Examples of this are kinetic energy (Ek=0.5*M*V^2), force (F=M*A), work (W=F*d), and etc.

An intuitive example of that is found in the general definition of Work as defined in physics: In essence, as work itself denotes the energy applied to an object as it is displaced along a given path, the basic formula for calculating it only takes into account a single variable, and the path itself is treated as an one-dimensional object, regardless of the dimension of the space in which the action itself takes place.

Hence, a higher-dimensional entity can be both stronger or weaker than a lower-dimensional one, and thus, they are usually quantified based on their own feats, instead of dimensionality alone. If a character is merely stated to be higher-dimensional and simultaneously has no other feats to derive anything noteworthy from, then they are put at Unknown, and the same applies to lower dimensions as well.

Do note, however, that them not qualifying for Tier 2 and above doesn't mean they are "fake" higher-dimensional beings or anything of the sort. It is simply that being higher-dimensional does not inherently mean they have infinite power in the first place, as explained above.

Although one can be higher dimensional that doesn't equate to them being stronger. only when said size has become significant such as being universal in size
since low 1-C is basically Low complex multiverse level

furthermore into the FAQ this is mentioned

Q: When are higher dimensions valid, then?​

A: One of the more straightforward ways to qualify for Tier 2 and up through higher dimensions is by affecting whole higher-dimensional universes which can embed the whole of lower-dimensional ones within themselves.

So let's put a value to X-dimension and say it is 5-dimensional. since we will be using the calculation of volume
and if said 5-dimensional cube are all 5 meters in each axis
that would make it a hypervolume not inherently larger than the universe (not fully sized) that houses it but it doesn't mean it is not higher dimensional it is just that there are no feats and we can easily calculate its volume like a regular 3D object thus without feat it is unknown.

I may have made a mistake here

not grant tier even if qualitative superiority is confirmed

It seems qualitative superiority can grant tier so ignore this part

But to continue

However, vaguer cases where a universe is merely stated to be higher-dimensional while existing in a scaling vacuum with no previously established relationship of superiority towards lower-dimensional ones (or no evidence to infer such a relationship from) should be analysed more carefully. In such cases where information as to their exact nature and scale is scarce, it is preferable that the higher dimensions in question be fully-sized in order to qualify.

If said higher dimensional has no proven qualitative superiority the next best option for it to grant a tier is size and as I explained above not being fully sized doesn't grant a tier at all and you need to be large enough to embed said lower dimensional space within you to qualify via size.

and to be able to embed the universe within you via size you need to be at least large enough in all the axis the universe has 3D-4D
meaning you'd have 4 coordinate to be at least universal in size or infinite in size and the 5th coordinate or 5th axis can be left vague it can be 1 meter or 2 meters but the matter of fact is that you already embedded said 4D universe thus you qualify size wise to be tierred as such.

So what if instead of being 5 dimensional you are 8 dimensional but only embedded 4D universe?

you'd still only get tier to low 1-C as you have not shown to have embedded 5D-7D universe AKA you still have only confirmed to be fully sized up to the 4th axis.

Now to answer's OP question.

If a map exists of x amount of spatio-temporal dimensions which allows 3D beings to travel the multiverse. Would we assume those x amount of dimensions are fully-sized/significant?

This is very hard and likely hard to say.
but if we can get confirmation that it is due to said x amount of spatiotemporal dimension housing said multiverse it could grant tier 1 dimension above the multiverse. so going by the example i give above. if it is 8 dimensional but only confirmed to be fully sized by housing a 4D multiverse then at best it can only be 5D

 

[Greenshifter]

only when said size has become significant such as being universal in size

Being universal in size and being a few meters in size is both insignificant compared to infinity, the implication is that any non-compactified higher-D being qualifies.

 

[Greenshifter]

This is very hard and likely hard to say.
but if we can get confirmation that it is due to said x amount of spatiotemporal dimension housing said multiverse it could grant tier 1 dimension above the multiverse. so going by the example i give above. if it is 8 dimensional but only confirmed to be fully sized by housing a 4D multiverse then at best it can only be 5D

Ok, thx for your input.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

Being universal in size and being a few meters in size is both insignificant compared to infinity, the implication is that any non-compactified higher-D being qualifies.

pretty sure they made it arbitrary to be universal in size to qualify for anything tier 1 related. and this is only if there are no other ways to prove qualitative superiority and is vague or is on scaling vacuum without much lore. if you can prove qualitative superiority without relying on sizes then yes it qualifies obviously regardless of size

 

[Reiner04]

If a map exists of x amount of spatio-temporal dimensions which allows 3D beings to travel the multiverse. Would we assume those x amount of dimensions are fully-sized/significant?

Stop wanking map of infinity dude.

On another note, they should be fully sized.

 

[Aachintya31]

On another note, they should be fully sized.

Why ?

 

[Reiner04]

Why ?

Considering ben 10 treats higher Dimensions and dimensional beings superior to Lower one's, they shouldn't be considered smaller than them. That's ofc, depends on interpretations but I personally wouldn't buy nonsensically induced doubts when show consistently puts them at superior.

 

[Greenshifter]

Stop wanking map of infinity dude.

On another note, they should be fully sized.

… Thx?

 

[Greenshifter]

Considering ben 10 treats higher Dimensions and dimensional beings superior to Lower one's, they shouldn't be considered smaller than them. That's ofc, depends on interpretations but I personally wouldn't buy nonsensically induced doubts when show consistently puts them at superior.

That’s not how it works here.

 

[Reiner04]

That’s not how it works here.

What not works here? And who said so? Are fully sized dimensions not considered Tierable?

 

[Greenshifter]

pretty sure they made it arbitrary to be universal in size to qualify for anything tier 1 related

Isn’t that the 3D size which needs to be at least that big though?

 

[Greenshifter]

What not works here? And who said so? Are fully sized dimensions not considered Tierable?

You can’t assume they’re fully-sized just because a verse has other fully-sized higher dimensions.

 

[Reiner04]

You can’t assume they’re fully-sized just because a verse has other fully-sized higher dimensions.

Eh... Idgi tbh.