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From Moonrise to Moonset Semifinals, Match 1: Chakax vs Byleth

Naito-desu

Naito-desu

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MATCH CONDITIONS:
  • The match takes place in Windsor Castle, in the inner courtyard of the upper ward
  • Starting distance is 10 meters
  • Characters will be given only partial knowledge of all their opponent's abilities, particularly any dangerous abilities or immortalities
  • Characters will be given their standard equipment
  • Characters are allowed to change their strategy with their limited knowledge of their opponent's abilities and match conditions
  • The fight will be given a timer of 12 hours to conclude.
  • Victory is achieved under what is defined by SBA, with the addendum that characters lose when they remain immobilized, incapacitated, removed from the battlefield, or killed when the timer ends
    • Any characters that are projected to fight past 12 hours will be subject to "Sudden Death" where any immobilization, incapacitation, removal from the battlefield or death will only need to last 10 seconds before a victor is declared
    • Physical pinning is allowed, but the character must be pinned in such a way that they cannot harm the person pinning them
    • To clarify, a tournament victory only requires that the opponent remain immobilized, incapacitated, removed from the battlefield, or killed when the timer ends or for ten seconds during Sudden Death. Meaning that a character could lose a match under conventional VSThread rules but win the tournament match
  • The match will be allowed to continue as normal after the tournament-mandated timer ends for purposes of adding to the profile
  • Any further accommodations for unique abilities will be decided as the tournament gathers more participants
  • In tandem with the above, rules will be adjusted accordingly as well
Byleth (409 gigatons), Fused with Sothis Key vs. Chakax (510 gigatons)
 
Imagine a guy who not only out muscles Byleth, but also outskills her and will screw anything that's not range spam(dodged or smacked out of the air) or straight up combat.
 
Looking at their Intelligence sections, it's hard to say who's really outskilled. Yes, Chakax defeated one of the most skilled beings in his verse with ease, but Byleth has many more feats to suggest her Skill in Combat. Though, it is worthy of note that the wiki did give Chakax a higher rating than Byleth in Intellect.
 
TheKingStrategist13 said:
Looking at their Intelligence sections, it's hard to say who's really outskilled. Yes, Chakax defeated one of the most skilled beings in his verse with ease, but Byleth has many more feats to suggest her Skill in Combat. Though, it is worthy of note that the wiki did give Chakax a higher rating than Byleth in Intellect.
Click to expand...
Tell me, has Byleth literally walked into armies and soloed them? Becuase the skill chain as low as fodder chaos warriors can, with only 80, literally kill enough opponents of an army to literally make a large flowing river of blood, let alone first key Sigmar who walked into a literal ocean of orcs or any member of the U5 who not only army solo but also fight many of thos3 chaos warriors I mentioned earlier.

And those skill feats are low-tier.
 
Literally me when WHF goonlords keep mentioning army soloing like it's the best skill feat in the whole wide world:

🦍 🗿 🤝
 
OK, that... Felt a tad aggressive. Anyways, I've found out rather recently that when it comes to skill scaling chains, they aren't really looked at with much consideration compared to feat's when people discuss Skill- If you want, you can even look at the thread linked here to see this yourself, though I understand if that's too much trouble. Either way, Byleth had been able to lead a army well enough, that a War that was stuck in the rut for 5 year's ended in months due to her involvement. Byleth is pretty much used to going out and taking down entire Armies on a monthly basis, training people who were literal noob's to combat to become Seasoned warrior's who can each lead a Battalion on the side. Byleth is more than capable of taking on Shez, who traveled all over and gathered fighting styles from several different kinds of Bandits, mastering them each and incorporating them into a Unique Fighting Style. All in all, Byleth's skill speaks for itself as being capable.

Byleth also can outrange for a period of time via Magic and the SoTC. Byleth's Divine Pulse would also prove a issue, as she would be able to make massive mistakes if needed and just rewind back to prior to the mistake, whereas Chakax doesn't quite have such a pleasure.
 
TheKingStrategist13 said:
OK, that... Felt a tad aggressive. Anyways, I've found out rather recently that when it comes to skill scaling chains, they aren't really looked at with much consideration compared to feat's when people discuss Skill- If you want, you can even look at the thread linked here to see this yourself, though I understand if that's too much trouble. Either way, Byleth had been able to lead a army well enough, that a War that was stuck in the rut for 5 year's ended in months due to her involvement. Byleth is pretty much used to going out and taking down entire Armies on a monthly basis, training people who were literal noob's to combat to become Seasoned warrior's who can each lead a Battalion on the side. Byleth is more than capable of taking on Shez, who traveled all over and gathered fighting styles from several different kinds of Bandits, mastering them each and incorporating them into a Unique Fighting Style. All in all, Byleth's skill speaks for itself as being capable.

Byleth also can outrange for a period of time via Magic and the SoTC. Byleth's Divine Pulse would also prove a issue, as she would be able to make massive mistakes if needed and just rewind back to prior to the mistake, whereas Chakax doesn't quite have such a pleasure.
Click to expand...
Did it? Eh, maybe, regardless that sounds like the kinda shit your average Khornate warrior, let alone a Bloodthirster does. Chakax curbstomps bloodthirsters.

Magic... On Chakax... I highly doubt Byleth has even one magical thing Chakax DOESN'T resist lol
 
OK, after finding this comment to be a tad intriguing, I took a look at the Aethyr Resistance on Chakax's Profile due to it looking weird, and... That's going to be a can of worms, is it not? This is my plea for the wiki to better dictate what does and doesn't count as Magic that can be translated across universe's
Assuming that this doesn't translate due to Byleth's Magic not being reliant on Aethyr, then Chakax lack's much of a answer. Assuming this does translate for some reason, then Byleth would still have the Sword of The Creator to outrange Chakax.

Allow me to present this statement directly from the page:

"Aethyr Manipulation is the process via which magic is possible in the Warhammer world. Otherwise known as Magic or the Winds of Magic colloquially, is the manipulation of the raw stuff of Chaos itself."

It specifies that Aethyr Manipulation is the Manipulation of Chaos itself. Due to Byleth's Magic not being Reliant on Chaos in any capacity, I argue that the magic should not translate in this case, as the Magic in Warhammer that Chakax can tank is clearly reliant on Chaos in some way, shape, or form, a trait lacking in Byleth's Magic.
 
TheKingStrategist13 said:
OK, after finding this comment to be a tad intriguing, I took a look at the Aethyr Resistance on Chakax's Profile due to it looking weird, and... That's going to be a can of worms, is it not? This is my plea for the wiki to better dictate what does and doesn't count as Magic that can be translated across universe's
Assuming that this doesn't translate due to Byleth's Magic not being reliant on Aethyr, then Chakax lack's much of a answer. Assuming this does translate for some reason, then Byleth would still have the Sword of The Creator to outrange Chakax.

Allow me to present this statement directly from the page:

"Aethyr Manipulation is the process via which magic is possible in the Warhammer world. Otherwise known as Magic or the Winds of Magic colloquially, is the manipulation of the raw stuff of Chaos itself."

It specifies that Aethyr Manipulation is the Manipulation of Chaos itself. Due to Byleth's Magic not being Reliant on Chaos in any capacity, I argue that the magic should not translate in this case, as the Magic in Warhammer that Chakax can tank is clearly reliant on Chaos in some way, shape, or form, a trait lacking in Byleth's Magic.
Click to expand...
Hehehehe...

So your saying Byleth's magic isn't supernatural in any capacity then? Becuase Aethyr Manipulation is Everything supernatural, it makes up the concepts and the like that make up the universe, it makes up the supernatural itself, this is why "Well it isn't Magic" or "'well its Chakra"(Example) doesn't work, there's good and bad things to verse equalizing to everything supernatural, and let's just say, when you resist practically every hax on the wiki, it's a very good thing to have that equalize to everything supernatural.
 
TheKingStrategist13 said:
All you did was link a blog that explains that Aethyr comes from the Void. Not once is is stated that Aethyr makes up all things Supernatural.
Click to expand...
It makes up the universe this means it makes up the supernatural aspects of the universe, this then means that anything supernatural automatically falls under Aethyr Manipulation unless it's stupid specific
 
Physical Matter makes up our universe. Does that mean Physical Matter would make up Time? If this were true, and Aethyr counts as everything in the universe, this would mean that Chakax has resistance to everything, period.
 
Chakax's skill feats do not only extend to just soloing armies but also killing a Daemon Prince, who scales above Chaos fighters with Analytical Prediction. Additionally, during the End Times, he soloed a group of highly skilled assassins while protecting his master. Despite outnumbering, surrounding him, and having ranged projectiles that could one-shot his master, Chakax successfully kept them all at bay. This is the kind of shit he's dealt with for thousands of years, and he's literally never failed.
 
TheKingStrategist13 said:
Physical Matter makes up our universe. Does that mean Physical Matter would make up Time? If this were true, and Aethyr counts as everything in the universe, this would mean that Chakax has resistance to everything, period.
Click to expand...
That is true, but I'd rather say he resists what he's shown resisting lol
 
Aethyr is complicated because it literally is what constitutes reality in Warhammer, wizard literally manipulate reality to create something like a fireball. You could argue it does constitute everything in the universe both natural and supernatural, and that Aethyr resistance means resisting any hax whatsoever.
 
Yeah having a shit ton of resistances doesn't necessarily mean he's unstoppable, you can still BEAT him it just can't be from most hax, but either way from what I can tell, Chakax outskills, has better experience, neutralizes any of her magical items with his mace, and is significantly stronger than her to the point that if he gets a hold of her, she's done for, so I'd probably put this to a low-diff
 
Alright, quite a bit to unpack here.

For Attack Potency, I don't think the gap between the two is that immense. I'm aware that Chakax upscales from 510 GT, but Byleth herself upscales from 409 GT, if not 818 GT. A weakened Immaculate One was able to survive two Javelins of Light at once, both of which are 409 GT. Then there is a normal, or 1st form Immaculate One, who is far superior to her weakened self. Then there are 2nd and 3rd, each form obviously being stronger than the last. Byleth is at least as strong as the 3rd form Immaculate One, if not stronger. Byleth also fused with a being who was able to survive a bombardment of Javelins of Light, so there is also that.
In addition, she has skills that passively increase her strength, combat arts and her crest to boost her damage, and critical hits, which triples her damage. Oh yeah, Byleth should also have a pretty high critical hit rate due to skills that increase her chances of activating one.

For skill, I doubt that she has a skill advantage. With that being said, she is far from unskilled. "short" version is that at the beginning of the game, she curbstomped Shez. Shez has been a mercenary their whole life, is capable of mastering new forms of combat instantly, and has mastered countless different techniques of countless different mercenary companies in the process. Shez was able to take on all Three Houses on their own with relative ease, which comprises of at least hundreds of students, most of whom have military experience, especially those in the Kingdom, who have all been taught to fight since childhood. Those students include people such as Dimitri, who at 15 years old, was able to put down a rebellion in the Kingdom, which comprises of Soldiers who were taught combat since they were children.
Byleth is also capable of fighting beings who are vastly superior to beings who can take down armies by themselves, who themselves are superior to, well you get the gist. She can also fight against beings who have hundreds, if not thousands of years of combat experience.

Byleth's elemental stuff/magic spells won't really be of much use due to Chakax's resistances. Other than that, most of Byleth's abilities should still work.
From what I'm getting on the Aethyr Manipulation page, the Power Nullification only seems to apply to stuff related to magic (though I could easily have missed something in the giant wall(s) of text). Because of this, I'd argue that Chakax may not resist Byleth's kind of Power Nullification, due to it nullifying the opponent's actions (in this case, counterattacking) rather than magic. If that is the case, well, Chakax is going to have trouble.
For context, Byleth's Crest abilities include healing after combat, raising AP, and stopping counterattacks. All these abilities have a chance to activate after each attack. And, well, Byleth is capable of doing stuff like this. So Chakax is going to be constantly unable to attack Byleth back.

Even assuming Chakax does resist her Power Null, he is still going to have trouble keeping up with her attacks. Not only does she have a range advantage, her attacks are borderline Danmaku, with her being able to unleash attacks coming from all directions out of thin air. Unless Chakax's speed amp is that absurd (which it isn't last time I checked), or can rapidly bend his body and joints like a contortionist on crack, he isn't dodging those attacks, considering Byleth also has passive skills that increases her chances of landing said attacks. Also, as mentioned before, he is also going to have to deal with each of those attacks potentially healing Byleth, boosting her damage, dealing triple damage, or multiple of those happening at once.

Byleth also has plenty of defensive options. She has on-demand healing, which can heal up to Low-Mid damage, skills that increase her dodge-chance, and in a worst case scenario (like if she dies) can use one of her 13 Divine Pulse charges to rewind time, where she will now know every move Chakax is going to make, and can plan accordingly.

Byleth screwed dough
 
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TheGatememer said:
he is still going to have trouble keeping up with her attacks. Not only does she have a range advantage, her attacks are borderline Danmaku, with her being able to unleash attacks coming from all directions out of thin air. Unless Chakax's speed amp is that absurd (which it isn't last time I checked), or can rapidly bend his body and joints like a contortionist on crack, he isn't dodging those attacks
Click to expand...
He could deflect hundreds of consecutive strikes, and was able to deflect tens of throwing stars away from a target he's protecting. Moreover, his Time Manipulation ensures Byleth literally cannot outspeed him, and the Jaguar Standard gives him a permanent speed advantage. Chakax has dealt with mages and assassins for the longest time, so dodging projectiles and the like shouldn't be difficult. This works and allows him to deflect and dodge even magic attack.

Chakax scales higher to people with precog and analytical prediction so even if Byleth could formulate a strategy, Chakax would be able to adapt to it. There are plenty of assassins who could barely get past him despite seeing him in action, and Chakax always had a slim margin of error to defeat them given many of them could potentially get a fatal hit in with weeping blades.
TheGatememer said:
For Attack Potency, I don't think the gap between the two is that immense. I'm aware that Chakax upscales from 510 GT, but Byleth herself upscales from 409 GT, if not 818 GT. A weakened Immaculate One was able to survive two Javelins of Light at once, both of which are 409 GT. Then there is a normal, or 1st form Immaculate One, who is far superior to her weakened self. Then there are 2nd and 3rd, each form obviously being stronger than the last. Byleth is at least as strong as the 3rd form Immaculate One, if not stronger. Byleth also fused with a being who was able to survive a bombardment of Javelins of Light, so there is also that.
Click to expand...
Chakax massively upscale from 510 gigatons via being able to oneshot someone into a pulp who directly scaled to it, so I don't think the AP advantage is hers.
 
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Byleth's Acrobatics, in tandem with her Range with SoTC, can be a problem for Chakax. Even if he speeds himself up, Byleth can boost her own speed as well to compensate, and use her Accelerated Development to slowly catch up to Chakax's AP. I understand he also has AD, but with the way most media portray's AD, the weaker character typically receives more gains than the stronger when two Character's with AD fight.
As previously mentioned, Byleth can also use her Crest's Power to rejuvenate herself to a limited degree or prevent Chakax from counter attacking her when she attacks. In addition, via the ability, Vantage, if she is at 50% or less health, she will go first when in combat. This ignore's Speed.

Assuming Chakax does manage to close the gap, Byleth can also use her Portal creation to make distance, if her own acrobatics fails. And even if this cannot work, Byleth can use The Bane of Monster's combat art, which deals more damage against Monster's, something which Chakax very much may qualify for.
And of course, if Chakax does manage to kill Byleth, she can simply rewind to a point in time that she had been in a better position via DP, and predict his next few moves before the battle takes a turn down another path. In addition, she will likely be able to figure out how Chakax fight's pretty well by dying to him a couple times, making it easier for her to actually handle him accordingly.
 
TheKingStrategist13 said:
Byleth's Acrobatics, in tandem with her Range with SoTC, can be a problem for Chakax. Even if he speeds himself up, Byleth can boost her own speed as well to compensate, and use her Accelerated Development to slowly catch up to Chakax's AP. I understand he also has AD, but with the way most media portray's AD, the weaker character typically receives more gains than the stronger when two Character's with AD fight.
As previously mentioned, Byleth can also use her Crest's Power to rejuvenate herself to a limited degree or prevent Chakax from counter attacking her when she attacks. In addition, via the ability, Vantage, if she is at 50% or less health, she will go first when in combat. This ignore's Speed.

Assuming Chakax does manage to close the gap, Byleth can also use her Portal creation to make distance, if her own acrobatics fails. And even if this cannot work, Byleth can use The Bane of Monster's combat art, which deals more damage against Monster's, something which Chakax very much may qualify for.
And of course, if Chakax does manage to kill Byleth, she can simply rewind to a point in time that she had been in a better position via DP, and predict his next few moves before the battle takes a turn down another path. In addition, she will likely be able to figure out how Chakax fight's pretty well by dying to him a couple times, making it easier for her to actually handle him accordingly.
Click to expand...
Literally all of these things except for time rewind have been dealt with by Chakax, are straight up game mechanics(going first), or just don't work(Speed Amps against a dude who can clear SoL at bare minimum speed with his passive equalization)
 
In spite of supposedly being game mechanics, they are stated on Byleth's Profile, so I unno what to tell you. And the Speed amps are to negate Chakax's own abusing of Speed Amp's. Is it stated that the Passive Equalization applies exclusively to his base Speed, and that the opponent can never reach his amped speed? If so then isn't he just going to win any fight short of against someone with passive hax via out speeding? It's the whole problem the MGR community had with Raiden all over again.

I would also like for some scans on him dealing with these things and where he did. Also, is it in character for him to use the Equalization and Speed Amp combo? Has he been shown to use them both at the same time, or even use multiple weapons at once? If so, you are basically saying that someone submitted,

  • A Person who Resists Essentially Everything due to some statement about Aethyr
  • Who automatically Out Speeds his opponents
  • Who Supposedly Outskill's Most Character's in combat anyways, and can apparently outskill someone who will know all his movements via Precog

Meaning he will always have the Speed Advantage, Likely have the Skill advantage, and any other means a character in this tier would have of dealing with him are mitigated by his Aethyr Resistance

Lemme ask this again: Why is he here
 
TheKingStrategist13 said:
In spite of supposedly being game mechanics, they are stated on Byleth's Profile, so I unno what to tell you. And the Speed amps are to negate Chakax's own abusing of Speed Amp's. Is it stated that the Passive Equalization applies exclusively to his base Speed, and that the opponent can never reach his amped speed? If so then isn't he just going to win any fight short of against someone with passive hax via out speeding? It's the whole problem the MGR community had with Raiden all over again.

I would also like for some scans on him dealing with these things and where he did. Also, is it in character for him to use the Equalization and Speed Amp combo? Has he been shown to use them both at the same time, or even use multiple weapons at once? If so, you are basically saying that someone submitted,

  • A Person who Resists Essentially Everything due to some statement about Aethyr
  • Who automatically Out Speeds his opponents
  • Who Supposedly Outskill's Most Character's in combat anyways, and can apparently outskill someone who will know all his movements via Precog

Meaning he will always have the Speed Advantage, Likely have the Skill advantage, and any other means a character in this tier would have of dealing with him are mitigated by his Aethyr Resistance

Lemme ask this again: Why is he here
Click to expand...
MG is a 2-10X speed increase. Chakax's is a 15% speed increase. Massive, right? And it's from an equipment he has, his base speed is what is equalized to under speed equal and the key. And he's really not going to be winning anything with a speed advantage that minimal, it's something to note that can be a little difficult, but it's not game changing.

He speed Equalizes magic as well as other shit, magic has some SoL and possibly Immeasurable stuff in Fantasy, and as for the in conjunction... dude both the Key to the Eternal Chamber and the Jaguar Standard are passives, and Byleth definitely isn't breaking the former, that shit's Old One tech, which basically means it's more durable than the 5-Bs at minimum.

Yep

Not game changing but still yep

Witch sight is one HELL of a drug. Yep.

Considering Grimgor's hyper amp ass here inconned a Kamen Rider and Grimgor is arguably even more skilled than Chakax seeing as he fought ******* Archaon of all characters, Chakax can be beaten by mortal means. You just need a ******* skillgod and a half to do so. Also Naito's the one who put Chakax in, I submitted Grimgor for the luls but his notoriety for bullshit got him rejected lol
 
... The maker of the tourney not only is arguing for a character, but is the one who submitted that very character? ... I don't want to throw shade, but that's kind of... Bizzare to say the least.

And tbh, 15% may not sound like much on paper, but it's pretty bad for whoever is fighting him, especially including all this other stuff he has. And the fact he has Equipment more durable than 5-B is... Alarming.

This guy frankly doesn't belong here with this number of ludicrous advantages he has on literally everyone in this tournament from what I've seen of everyone submitted

Even though I'm a Byleth supporter, I say it's Chakax 98/100 times unless something new comes up that I'm unaware of. It's not going to fulfill the conditions for a stomp on this wiki, but it sure as hell feels like one.
 
TheKingStrategist13 said:
And tbh, 15% may not sound like much on paper, but it's pretty bad for whoever is fighting him, especially including all this other stuff he has. And the fact he has Equipment more durable than 5-B is... Alarming.

This guy frankly doesn't belong here with this number of ludicrous advantages he has on literally everyone in this tournament from what I've seen of everyone submitted

Even though I'm a Byleth supporter, I say it's Chakax 98/100 times unless something new comes up that I'm unaware of. It's not going to fulfill the conditions for a stomp on this wiki, but it sure as hell feels like one.
Click to expand...
I mean Chakax just doesn't get matches unless I need a dude who ***** speed amps in the ass for something so it was probably for that lol, I submit characters into my own usually unfinished cause I forget they exist tournaments whenever I make one, and I usually argue for them too

It's literally one piece of equipment, granted it's his equipment that ***** any speed advantage the opponent could've had, but, still.

Considering a couple Kamen Riders got submitted and summarily knocked out, including the one that inconned ******* Grimgor(Otherwise known as 3x amp in everything every 3 minutes, only limited by tier restrictions), I'd say this tournament is strong enough to have a Warhammer Fantasy character in it lol
 
TheKingStrategist13 said:
The maker of the tourney not only is arguing for a character, but is the one who submitted that very character? ... I don't want to throw shade, but that's kind of... Bizzare to say the least.
Click to expand...

Nahh… throw the ******* shade, cuz I called him out on how broken Chuck or whatever his name is.
 
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