Frisk vs Monika (Grace)

[Sans2345]

Both 2-C tier

win via by death or KO

speed equalized

SBA

Frisk: 6 (Ricsi-viragosi) (Sadistic Sleuth) (ShinyMagicalGirl) (Planck69) (Modernrmidon) (Psycomaster35)

Monika: 10 (Saikou The Lewd King) (The Coolest Water Bottle) (Ted Ed) (Elizhaa) (Armor Chompy) (TheAmazingMetalMario) (Erosore) (Ogbunabali) (Kriskirby) (Ciruno Fortes)

Incon: 0





VS

 

[Kriskirby]

Frisk has Mid-Godly but I can see Monika getting past that and here's why. Frisk resists Monika's reality warping, existence erasure, and memory manipulation, but can still very much be mind controlled. Frisk doesn't have that much to offer in return. I could see them manipulate time and the such, but Monika takes this more often than not via Plot Manipulation and the ability to rewrite Frisk's SAVE file, and Power Nullification, which would completely remove Frisk's SAVE and LOAD powers in the exact same was as she did with the player.

I vote Monika.

 

[Sans2345]

Bump

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Monika tries to erase, and fails pretty badly at that.

Frisk is either possessed by Chara (never got if we assume they have already sold their soul) and yeets on mindhax by having chara just reset them back regardless. Eventually Monika just erases herself and looses.

If this is actual, legit Frisk, they just offer a hug (soul hug? Whatever it was that let Frisk befriend the souls inside asriel), and then it depends whether Monika accepts Frisk befriending her. The fact that Frisk's world would let her have free choice and her "infinite possibilities" makes that actually likely.


Even if Monika tried to mindhax, she only ever turned already existing characteristics up to 100, and even that broke reality down. Doubt she can incap through that, since she lacks the skill to affect Frisk's mind in an incapping manner.

 

[Kriskirby]

Erasure: She can "erase" the file of anyone, which results in their erasure of the entire history of the world, leaving it to adapt to their absence. However, Monika herself is unaffected and can still remember their existence and bring them back at will.

This is fully determined Frisk, the same one who fought Asriel Dreemurr, they are not possessed by Chara. Chara would be considered outside help. If this was Monika vs Chara, things would go very differently. As for Monika erasing herself, Non-Corporeal: Through unknown means, Monika managed to keep her conscience and ability to affect reality even after having her file (and thus, her entire existence) was deleted.

SBA states that both fighters are in character, but willing to kill. Frisk may be urging for a hug, but in this scenario, they know what they must do, and fight back. Same for Monika, which would mean she'd reject that offer anyways.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

This first point is absolutely a nonfactor to everything I said.

This is objectively wrong. Frisk is capable of achieving this level of power after selling their soul, and typ8, blessings and other such abilities do not fall under outside help.

Mónika being non-corporeals also means nothing to what I said.

And again, SBA says they are willing, not wanting. Monika in character is in depression and wanting to isolate herself from all of reality, and she wouldn't try hard to actually win beyond erasing the enemy. She wouldn't change the script because she couldn't even have this fight until the script is intact, and even if she changed it to amplify one of Frisk's characteristics, she'd still lose.

 

[Sans2345]

Bump

 

[Sadistic_Sleuth]

Frisk FRA

 

[ShinyMagicalGirl]

Is this a necro? Hope not, because I like the idea behind this matchup... Monika just needs a hug after all.

Anyways, le bump?

 

[Luigi_The_Thunder_Master]

The Determined Human FRA

 

[Kriskirby]

God dammit I thought this thread was done for so I could stop trying to explain

If you're WILLING to do something, you don't mind doing it. Even so, Monika holds literally every advantage over Frisk, and that includes her being more willing to kill than Frisk. And for the last time, Chara has nothing to do with this fight. If Monika erases herself, literally nothing happens because she can live being nonexistent.

What even is Frisk's wincon.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Offering Mónika literally everything ashe wants.

Mónika was willing to kill anyone, herself included, because of one perso from the real world with those sweet "infinite possibilities" she wanted.

Frisk can literally let her live there, and she can't kill Frisk, so they just talk about it and she accepts because "willing to kill=/=wanting to kill".

 

[Ciruno_Fortes]

A rare moment where a win con can be handled by talking it out.

Undertale threads really do offer Mercy routes.

 

[ShinyMagicalGirl]

>Frisk befriending Monika

That's just incredibly wholesome and I love it. And I remember how Monika can talk forever with the player so I guess she talks with Frisk and become besties.

Very well, I'm convinced. Frisk via MERCY FRA.

 

[Planck69]

Frisk Mercy routes FRA

 

[Kriskirby]

Never new a fight could end that way

Frisk FRA

 

[Modernmyrmidon]

Frisk FRA

 

[TheArsenal1212]

Frisk FRA

 

[Armorchompy]

Wholesome ending FRA

 

[Elizhaa]

>Frisk befriending Monika
That's just incredibly wholesome and I love it. And I remember how Monika can talk forever with the player so I guess she talks with Frisk and become besties.

Very well, I'm convinced. Frisk via MERCY FRA.

Fight can't end via things like MERCY in SBA or Standard Battle Assumptions.

So, vote via mercy/good ending should not be counted.

State of mind: In character, but willing to kill. The characters will employ their usual battle strategies, including flaws such as being casual, however, must be willing to kill the opponent even if they usually won't. Furthermore characters will not give up of their own accord. That means a character that is uninterested or sees no chance of winning won't simply leave and characters wouldn't simply become friends with each other. This doesn't prevent a character being made to give up, because the other character manipulates them via things like, for example, mind control, fear inducement, psychological tricks or superhuman charisma.

 

[Armorchompy]

Willing to kill doesn't mean that's the first thing they'll try. Otherwise, every Mc Queen fight would be an incon.

 

[Elizhaa]

Honestly, so far, Monika can win with Mind Manipulation which Frisk has no resistance to. Well, it might be a stomp for Monika since Frisk can't affect Characters with Nonexistent Physiology.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

As always, willing=/=wanting.

Frisk's morals won't hold them back, but that doesn't much matter here. Frisk is the same guy/gal that would be willing to kill everyone to see what happens, so removing morals doesn't change their actions.

Influencing you're enemies into giving up is a perfectly fine way to win.

 

[Armorchompy]

Would Monika lead with Mind Manip? Cause in character, Frisk should lead with MERCY

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

No, to both.

Monika's main attacks makes her unable to mind manip.

Frisk has no in-character, game s point is that you can do whatever you want, but consequences are out to get you. Going pacifist up to there doesn't make them any less willing to kill than before.

 

[Armorchompy]

I disagree with the latter, and I think my vote'll stay.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

You're disagreement doesn't mean much without reasons backing it up. Post-genocide pacifist route is something canon, and so is killing a single person to see what happens in the normal ending prologue.

 

[Armorchompy]

Alright, then, how about the fact that, the last time Frisk went up against a god-like being, violence was completely useless, while MERCY won them the battle?

 

[Elizhaa]

Alright, then, how about the fact that, the last time Frisk went up against a god-like being, violence was completely useless, while MERCY won them the battle?

That is because violences was useless.


Frisk also defeated Flowey with violence. In Pacifist run, Frisk just didn't kill him.

Even in Pacifc run, Frisk can still attack but just won't kill.


I do agree with @Ricsi-viragosi on Frisk's character.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Ah yes, how useless fighting was against Omega Flowey.

Asriel being immune to being whacked with a stick doesn't mean Frisk will not use any other means to win a battle if given a chance.

 

[Armorchompy]

Flowey was defeated with violence, yes, but even then, he had to first ACT on the souls and ask them for help. By the time attacking him does anything, he's not really god-like anymore. Frisk would definitely understand that trying to spare such a powerful being would be the best choice

 

[Elizhaa]

^^

I got what you mean. The main point is that Frisk does used violence when needed and Frisk's fighting style not overly reliant on MERCY unlike what I keep hearing many of Frisk's vs thread.

 

[Armorchompy]

I know, Frisk is never above dirtying their hands, but I think in this case, they'd definitely go for Mercy.

besides, it's cuter ok

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Frisk couldn't attack by virtue of reality being erased and them just being paralysed like against Asriel at his strongest.

But Frisk has no set mindset, regardless of which tier they are.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Monika just plothaxes. None of that "lol mercy" nonsense. This isn't allowed in VS Threads and won't result in a win anyway, just Incon at best.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

No she won't. She breaks the script by doing pretty much anything, and would just erase it since acting outside of it just causes glitches regardless. Her plot haxing was only when she tried to subdly manipulate the player, and the moment the charade ended she just stopped doing it and up and erased everything but herself and a room.

And no, it's very much allowed. They aren't Bloodlust Ed, so giving an offer the enemy won't refuse is an option. Muffet will accept money to lower her attack, Chara will let someone strong enough live for their soul, Bill will be down to making a non-lethal deal if it means he gets to do what she wants, and Mónika will accept obtaining something she erased her friends, the world, and eventually herself for.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

She literally incap'd the player by accident using it. And it didn't break or anything until Monika fixed it.

"Furthermore characters will not give up of their own accord. That means a character that is uninterested or sees no chance of winning won't simply leave and characters wouldn't simply become friends with each other. This doesn't prevent a character being made to give up, because the other character manipulates them via things like, for example, mind control, fear inducement, psychological tricks or superhuman charisma."

Frisk has none of that. And again, this wouldn't even be a win.

 

[Armorchompy]

Social Influencing. Why would we even have it as a skill otherwise?

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

That's hardly a power at all for Frisk. All he does is not fight and let people give up, or uses other means to win. It won't happen here.

 

[Armorchompy]

But they can use it to turn souls whose memories have been erased back to their side? To me it kind of seems like a stretch to call it "hardly a power".