Frisk Deals With More Insane Danmaku

[Jinsye]

Being constantly killed over and ocer again passively is a stomp. It's why Oryx stomped 682

 

[Overlord775]

k

 

[DatOneWeeb]

If all this does indeed involve danmaku, Frisk could certainly beat Isaac, as they were able to dodge every single one of Mad Mew Mew's attacks during their fight. And that involved an extra mechanic that forced Frisk to dodge everything twice.
Also if what Isaac does is magical, she can Stare at him or his items.

No, it's not just danmaku. Isaac can just use Flush and it's going to transmute immediately.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

It's only a stomp if Isaac wins.

Which he can't.

 

[Jinsye]

Is passive death over and over and over again not count as incap.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

No, because time gets reversed, making the one day incap needed to win never achieved.

 

[Jinsye]

I don't really agree on that because it's sheer technicality but whatever

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

No it isn't.

Time literally gets reversed, Frisk becomes completely freed from the negative effects, and eveything is back to normal. And then frisk gets slapped back again.

Constantly needing to affect a person to keep them incap doesn't count. Only if they are incapped for a day without you needing to interact with them.

 

[Jinsye]

I genuinely don't see how that's different from Oryx passively slapping 682 being considered a stomp because Isaac stands there and Frisk gets obliterated.

The only difference is the sheer technicality that eternity in a time lopp is not a day which I disagree with.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Difference is that Oryx doesn't need to constantly re-slap. Because incap doesn't count if you have to keep actively affecting the enemy.

The time-loop isn't what matters. Frisk being relieved by the effects and needing to be affected again is.

 

[Jinsye]

I mean

682 exists > gets slapped by Oryx > gets re-made by 343 with no damage dealt > gets slapped by Oryx

Frisk exists > gets slapped by Isaac > LOADs > gets slapped by Isaac again

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Well then it's wrong for 682.

It has been made clear that needing to affect someone continously is not a way to effectively incap.

 

[Jinsye]

I'm fairly sure it was made clear that actively needing to affect someone is not a way to effectively incap.

Passively means you can still do shot but they cant

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

I'm not sure what you mean by "do shot", but if X just remained under, say, passive mindhax, that would be one thing. And be a proper way to win by incap.

But if X constantly breaks out of, but gets put under the mindhax over and over, it isn't a win.

 

[Jinsye]

I meant "do shit" not "do shot" my bad

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Nothing, but point is, the fact that it constantly gets undone and reaplied makes it non-valid by what was agreed on with Cal and co. on the incap thread.

 

[Ogbunabali]

Time literally gets reversed

Except time doesn't get reversed. A new timeline is created, that's not the same thing.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

@Risci

If Issac passively kills Frisk, then it's a stomp incap, drop it. Frisk cannot do anything. It's passive incap, Issac stands for eternity

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Ogbu, why I don't remember a consensus on anything but resets making new time lines, it doesn't changr anything. Frisk still reverses the effects on himself.

And no fire, that is not how incapacitating works.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

It is how it works. Incapacitation works like this if the ability is passive. If it were active it would be inconclusive. Since it is passive, it's a stomp.

 

[Ogbunabali]

That's literally the whole reason why Undertale has 2-C and 2-B rating. And it does change a lot, Frisk self BFRs and in the original timeline where the fight takes place Frisk stays dead and Isaac wins, and continues to win in every new timeline Frisk creates.

 

[Andytrenom]

When has the creation of new timelines ever meant BFR in a VS thread?

 

[Ogbunabali]

Creation of a new timeline doesn't mean BFR. But I'm pretty sure traveling to a different timeline from where the original fight takes place and not coming back does.

 

[Andytrenom]

And by travelling you mean the act of turning back time to create a new timeline? Because Frisk's stuff is closer to that than dimensional travel into another timeline.

If you do, treating that as BFR frankly sounds dumb to me.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

It is how it works. Incapacitation works like this if the ability is passive. If it were active it would be inconclusive. Since it is passive, it's a stomp.

No.

Inconclusive only works if Frisk is constantly incapped for a day. Bei g incapped for a moment and then not for another does not count.

 

[Ogbunabali]

Except it's a different universe with it's own space-time not even remotely connected in the original one where Frisk lost to Isaac and in which he stays dead and doesn't come back.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Where was the fact that a normal load creates a completely different timeline again? Because at that point you can literally say that Chara can be any finite number worth in 2-B.

 

[Ogbunabali]

In literally the Undertale profiles.

 

[Andytrenom]

@Ogbu What you're saying is that any time traveling character whose verse utilizes the concept of timelines is BFRing himself by time traveling, but a character whose verse doesn't isn't by doing the exact same thing.

Functionally neither are running away from a battle and from both the character's perspective they would still be fighting the same battle. Calling this BFR makes little sense, it would be the same as saying someone who dupes himself to live on after his original version dies has lost because technically he isn't the same person who was in a fight

 

[Ogbunabali]

He's not time traveling he is creating a new universe there's a huge difference between the two. A normal time travel character can just go back in time kill the opponent, preventing the fight from even happening which would result in his win, or come back to the same place when the fight takes place and continuing from there.

While Frisk not only leaves the universe's space time of where the fight is happening and not coming back, in the universe that he left behind Isaac wins definitively and Frisk stays dead, thus resulting in a win either way.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

If you are referring to his AP reasoning, then no Ogbu, it says a save is a timeline. Not that loading makes a completely different one each time. Loading uses your one save that you made.

Plus, Flowey is prob's becoming Low 2-C to 2-C if the crt ever actually finishes.

 

[Ogbunabali]

Doesn't he create a new save file everytime he does that?

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

No. He has six set ones (though we only see him using 3 of them) that he constantly spams.

And if you mean Frisk, a completely new save file is only made on resets, which is why Flowey doing every possible outcome matters more that the player having the ability to spam saving.

 

[Ogbunabali]

Ah never mind then.

 

[Andytrenom]

The basic ideas of timelines is that if something changes in the past, an entire new universe will be created. All time travelers whose verse utilizes this concept will be returning to a new universe after time traveling, saying Frisk BFRs himself is no different than saying any of these timetravelers BFR themselves. And this is still a getting more into technicalities to claim a loss than looking at the simple fact that for all parties considered, Frisk is returning to the same battle and fighting against the same opponent.

 

[Ogbunabali]

That's a discussion for another time, as it's irrelevant now since it's the same save file. And this has nothing to do with "claiming a loss" because if it did turn out that way it would be a stomp.

 

[Unoriginal_Memes]

Bump

 

[Unoriginal_Memes]

Bump

 

[Bruhtelho]

Inconclusive FRA

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

Just to get this moving along, Inconclusive. (Or at least until the new upgrades come in)