The Binding of Isaac - Profiles Rework and Ability Addition

[Armorchompy]

Profile Rework​

I do not agree with the way Isaac's profile is currently laid out. It basically composites every single "character" in the game which does make sense since they're all part of Isaac's imagination but it presents it as if Isaac has all the abilities of the playable characters at once which is just not the case, even if they are all "him" they're still different "characters" in his mind too and that's without getting into the Tainted Characters that are obviously not the same as their normal counterpart.

The way I see it there's three ways we can handle this.

1. Keep the profile as is, which is inaccurate to The Binding of Isaac but probably the easiest way to lay it out.
2. Add 17 sub-tabbers in the profile for each of the characters, with each of them having a sub-tabber of its own to detail tainted/non-tainted characters. WIll make for a huge-ass profile and a slightly ugly P&A but it will be more accurate.
3. Make 16 more pages for each of the characters (With 2 keys each for Normal | Tainted). Would take a LOT of work and would have a lot of repetition (since all the characters would have the same P&A in "Optional Equipment", but it would probably make for the best-looking individual profiles. If this option is accepted, I think I can make these profiles myself, if overtime.

Tiers Rework​

Isaac should be "Varies from 9-A up to 8-B" since scaling base Isaac to Mega Satan is a meme and a half, and obviously his power varies depending on what items he has. 8-B and 9-A are both based on this blog of mine. The reason base Isaac (down)scales from his bombs is elaborated in the next paragraph where I talk about boss scaling.

As for bosses, I'm gonna borrow Wok's method in this old, not concluded revision to see what floors' bosses should scale to Mama Mega or regular bombs- I elaborate more in the blog but basically early game bosses should be 9-A while everyone else is 8-B. Here's the blog I made, I detail how the scaling should work IMO, maybe a little too in depth lol. And yeah I think their AP should scale to their durability here because Boss Durability = Isaac AP = Isaac SS = Isaac Durability = Boss Attacks.

Regarding other stats, Speed will be "Subsonic, higher with items" and LS will be "Unknown, up to Class M with items", again based off my blog

Abilities & Other Minor Changes​

• Statistics Amplification (With like, a lot of cards as well as items)
• Fragrance Manipulation (With Bean items)
• Soul Manipulation and Life Manipulation (Can turn red hearts into soul hears and vice versa with Guppy’s Paw and the Converter)
• Clairvoyance (Crystal Ball: “I see my future”)
• Berserk Mode with Samson, various items related to him and Blind Rage
• BFR with Emergency Contact (Summons two Mom hands that take enemies away)
• Reactive Power level with Bloody Lust, Lusty Blood and Bloody Gust Cancer (Item) (When hurt, his defense will grow)
• Addition to Empathic Manipulation (Can make enemies friendly with the Friendly Ball. Venus passively charms enemies close to Isaac, Rotten Tomato drives other enemies to attack the one marked with it)
• Friendly Ball is also Sealing
• Reality Warping with Forget Me Now (Rerolls the entire floor)
• Gravity Manipulation with Anti-Gravity Tears
• Body Control and Addition to Immortality (Type 2. Can cut off his head with certain items and his body will function automatically, can peel off part of his body to create a Meat Boy)
• Spatial Manipulation (With Continuum, has tears warp around the room and with Red Key, which creates new rooms out of the walls)
• Existence Erasure (With the Eraser, if it hits an enemy they will never appear again for the rest of the run, any of their kind instantly puffs out of the air)
• Adhesive Manipulation (With Explosivo)
• Addition to Death Manipulation (Plan C kills everyone in the room, then Isaac, though he can resurrect from that)
• Addition to Absorption (Can absorb trinkets with Smelter)
• Sense Manipulation (Blind Tears can inflict temporary blindness)
• Immortality (Type 8, with Isaac’s Heart)
• Extrasensory Perception (With The Mind)
• Creation (Can create extra items with Flip)
• Addition to Blessed (Various Angel Room items can be interpreted as a protection from god and Eucharist has Angel Deals open every time no matter what "sins" Isaac commits)
• Addition to Telekinesis (With Telekinesis)
• Transmutation, can turn items into other items with the D10 and reroll other things with other dice, among other items
• Addition to Telekinesis (The Soul pushes away enemy projectiles)
• Addition to Regeneration (Mid. Can regrow or re-attach his head after ripping it off with items such as Scissors, Pinking Shears or Decap Attack)
• Addition to Teleportation, as there are far more things that teleport you, not just The Fool
• Addition to Damage Reduction (With the Wafer)
• Addition to Light Manipulation (Revelation)
• Addition to Poison Manipulation (The entire room he's in is filled with poisonous gas thanks to Toxic Shock
• Addition to Homing Attack (Psy Fly seeks out enemy attacks and turns them into friendly homing shots)
• Resistance to Statistics Manipulation (Rock Bottom prevents stats from being lowered. Libra will spread all stats changes across his various stats, thus lessening a debuff’s effects on one stat. With the Wafer, Addicted!, which usually makes Isaac take full heart damage, has no effect)
• Supernatural Willpower (I have never seen any character get tortured as much as poor Isaac and he keeps on trucking despite being basically torn apart by half the items in the game, I think he deserves it)
• Bosses should get resistance to Existence Erasure, Transmutation, Sealing (Friendly Ball) and Size Manipulation as those items don’t affect them. Mom gets BFR with her hands. Also limited resistance to basically all hax for all bosses since they can only be afflicted with one hax (except slow) every 8 sec
• The strongest bosses out there get Reactive Power Level and Damage Reduction because of boss armor increasing their defense if they’re hit by really strong attacks.
• Death Manipulation and Attack Reflection for Satan (Using the Bible on him)
• Fungus Manipulation with Mucormycosis
• Acrobatics for How To Jump which allows Isaac to perform fast horizontal jumps to dodge attacks among other things
• Addition to Fear Manipulation (2Spooky passively terrifies enemies that get too close to Isaac)
• Organic Manipulation with the many, many poop-related items in the game.
• Reality Warping with TMTRAINER (Completely warps Isaac’s future equipment giving it randomized effects)
• Ice Manipulation (Now that ice is a separate status effect from petrification, it’s obvious Mom’s Contact does the latter, but there are a couple of ice items)
• Small Size (Type 0) with Pluto
• Addition to Size Manipulation with Mega Mush, allows him to temporarily grow to about ten meters of height
• Duplication with the Meat Cleaver
• Addition to Reality Warping (R Key allows Isaac to restart the run with all his items)
• Sound Manipulation with Larynx
• Metal Manipulation with Anima Sola, which summons chains around a target
• Addition to Magnetism Manipulation with Lodestone
• Energy Projection with Shoop Da Whoop! among other items
• Soul Manipulation and Sealing with the Urn of Souls
• Soul Manipulation with Vade Retro
• Enhanced Senses with Guppy’s Eye (Can sense the content of chests and other items)
• Resistance to Soul Manipulation (The Lost can pick up Devil Deal items without having any soul hearts and suffers no harm for it while other characters would die from it- considering they're shown to cost Soul Hearts I think it's fair to interpret it would kill them cause it steals their souls)
• Resistance to Fire, Poison, Fear and Confusion (??) through Evil Charm
• Addition to Astral Projection (There is literally an item called Astral Projection, wonder what it does)
• Limited Elasticity (With Belly Jelly, can reflect enemy attacks and projectiles)
• Probability Manipulation with Sacred Orb which makes bad items less likely to show up, in favor of better ones appearing and Glyph of Balance which changes room drops into whatever Isaac needs at the moment, among other items.
• Earth Manipulation with Terra, also Inorganic Physiology since it makes Isaac to be made of rock
• Sacred Orb might actually be minor Fate Manipulation since the description says "Destined for greatness"
• Intangibility, Invisibility, limited Paralysis Inducement and Darkness Manipulation with Dark Arts, which also has NPI cause it can hurt the Haunt before it makes itself tangible
• Life Manipulation with C-Section which allows him to create babies at an incredibly rapid pace to attack his enemies and wow that sure is a sentence I just typed. Also Cambion Conception and Immaculate Conception allow him to uh, give birth to familiars. Gello also does... that
• Telepathy with Telepathy for Dummies c'mon
• Unholy Manipulation - Various Devil Room items are marked as "evil" by the game and that is reflected by various effects such as Black Feather using them to boost your damage and Alabaster Box giving you a worse reward- So if Angel Room items are holy, the opposite should be true
• Power Absorption with Void
• Vibration Manipulation with Mama Mega
• Construction with Bag of Crafting
• Martial Arts with Suplex!
• Addition to Forcefield Manipulation with Book of Shadows
• I think Chaos! counts as Chaos Manipulation? The page says "Such a being can be the embodiment of chaos, whereas their simple appearance causes everything to become chaotic, such as automatically triggering natural disasters, destruction, or disharmony, confusion, and strife among people." and I think causing item pools to be completely swapped around randomly fits the spirit of that. Also the profile currently considers Chaos Card to be Chaos Manip and it ain't
• Addition to Summoning cause I think the fact that Delirious summons Delirium himself is pretty notable.
• Precognition and Dream Manipulation - Can see the future through his dreams with Dream Catcher
• Minor Fusionism - Can replace his body parts with other ones he finds, as seen with Guppy's Eye or Lucky Foot.

There's like a lot more stuff that's pretty old and needs to be refreshed, like the verse page using Flash art for most bosses or the fact that Mom's full name is Magdalene O. Moriah and the Gemini twins are named Contusion and Suture.

There's also like a lot of bosses to revise, all pretty minor stuff so I'd like to ask permission to make simple additions to them without needing to make like 40 CRTs

 

[NotoriouSoda]

Good shit Armor. Agree with everything here so far

 

[Shmooply]

Very big, me likey.
Agree with everything here so far, but I'll double check to see if there's anything iffy about the OP later.

 

[deonment]

I would say option 3 is best but, you would have the character works, so for example, you would have to limit T!Issac to 8 items or whatever, anyways im gonna have to read through the list which is beeeg

 

[Armorchompy]

Yeah I mean I'd specify in standard attacks or whatever how the characters work, weaknesses too

 

[Armorchompy]

boop

 

[Shmooply]

Alright, re-read the OP. The only thing I'm really neutral about is the chaos manipulation stuff, and it should be listed as a passive ability as well.
inb4 random user joins and argues that isaac should have abstract existence because of "embodiment of chaos11!1!!11!one!!"

 

[deonment]

this isnt overlord my guy

 

[Armorchompy]

Do y'all think Isaac could get some weird Type 8 or damage absorption for being able to survive without red health when he has only blue/black hearts?

 

[Armorchompy]

bup

 

[Armorchompy]

bloop

 

[Armorchompy]

Do y'all think Isaac could get some weird Type 8 or damage absorption for being able to survive without red health when he has only blue/black hearts?

Oh also yeah Deon and I talked about it on Discord a little and we kinda came to the conclusion that it's probably damage reduction + reliant immortality since it lets Isaac survive even as a corpse (Blue Baby) and can absorb hits for him, it also seems to be some sorta protection for his soul?

 

[Armorchompy]

bamp

 

[Armorchompy]

Btw here's a wip sandbox I cooked up for Isaac's p&a.

 

[Armorchompy]

Actually, I just realized a thing, charmed Gurgle (green dudes that spit ipecac shots)s only inflict 10 dmg with their attack it seems so maybe most enemies would scale to 9-A. That's just me basing it off the fact that charmed enemies do 10 dmg with projectiles so idk. I'd check but my pc might be a lil busted

 

[Shmooply]

bumper carts

 

[Armorchompy]

bip

 

[Armorchompy]

vsaDN bgfhnmcvbafgasc

 

[Shmooply]

after posting this cryptic message chomps body was found in his mother's basement

 

[NotoriouSoda]

while we do not know of armor last words police have found a drive containing threads reading ‘1-A Travis’ ‘8-B Ultrakill’ ‘Low 2-C Isaac’ and etc

 

[Shmooply]

Authorities later discovered this piece of paper glued to his back.

They are still uncertain what it is, other than being a device used to bump this thread.

 

[EliminatorVenom]

Personally, I agree with the proposed changes, and I think that Option 3 is the best, although 2 would be more accurate, imo. Option 3 kind is of how we do it for most characters in similar pieces of medie, where they are clearly different, but they can all use the same equipment, thus gaining the same capabilities.

Just for the sake of the thread, another option would be to make a single sub-tabber listing the powers that all of his variants have, and then adding a note on the bottom of the profile explaining how that works and that, if someone desires to use a specific variant, they ought to pick one.

 

[Armorchompy]

That's true but I think it's a little too messy, IMO. Bottom option I mean.

 

[Armorchompy]

bop

 

[Elizhaa]

Option 2 or 3 seems fine.

I guess the other things look fine.

 

[Armorchompy]

Believe I can add this then, I bumped it a lot and there's been no opposition

 

[Armorchompy]

Sandbox is ready for Isaac's profile, appreciate it if people could check it out

 

[Armorchompy]

Also, should alt versions of bosses get their own profiles or keys? For example, Monstro II and Gish to Monstro? I assume that in keeping with the theme of Isaac's profiles they should be split?

 

[EliminatorVenom]

Also, should alt versions of bosses get their own profiles or keys? For example, Monstro II and Gish to Monstro? I assume that in keeping with the theme of Isaac's profiles they should be split?

I don't think so? The different versions of Isaac can justify more profiles as they can have the exact same equipments, but overall, their base forms are entirely different, not a direct evolution/change, and even then, new profiles are mostly fine because these differences are significant and there are way too many. New versions that just add a few capabilities or maybe increase a few the statistics can be easily included in a new key.

 

[Armorchompy]

Is the Isaac sandbox fine btw

 

[Shmooply]

Looks good to me bossman.

 

[Armorchompy]

made the update, I've also been working on the other profiles

 

[Antvasima]

I also think that option 3 seems best, if you have the time and energy to handle it.

The rest of your suggestions seem fine as well.

 

[Armorchompy]

I have reworked all the currently existing Isaac profiles (although one will need further reworking, as he has the composite powers of all the other bosses in the game, many of which I will need to make profiles for first). Making the profiles for Option 3 will honestly be relatively easy once I get around to it, since they share much of the skeleton.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thanks for helping out. Should we close this thread then?

 

[Armorchompy]

sure