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Frieren hits tier 7

Arceus0x

Arceus0x

17,216
12,655
After careful consideration and working on a bunch of calcs, Frieren can finally hit tier 7.
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Denken denks a tornado all over the place

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Denken's feat has an overall rating of Low 7-C. Those who scale to and around Frieren would get that rating though Frieren would upscale significantly and Serie would upscale incomparably (I'd give her low 7-C+ if it wasn't against the rules).

I also propose to scale lower tier mages (those significantly below the likes of Fern) to 8-A via this calc
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Lawine freezes the lake

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The 211 ton end is accepted and could be used.
 
Good, though, Frieren might upscale, it isnt significantly. Remember, Denken could fight Macht, bro aint no joke, he's weaker than them but in the sameball park.
 
Chariot190 said:
Good, though, Frieren might upscale, it isnt significantly. Remember, Denken could fight Macht, bro aint no joke, he's weaker than them but in the sameball park.
Click to expand...
Ehhh, gotta disagree. Denken had to use wits to keep up with Macht and used Zoltraak to defeat him since he had experience with it, using it to catch Macht off guard. Otherwise he was struggling.

Frieren only lost to Macht like 600 years prior and due to his transmutation abilities.
We don't know how Macht would now fare against Frieren.

Frieren also absolutely noogied Denken even though he was going all out against her. He got bodied and she didn't really care. She literally beat him while deciphering the barrier. He is definitely below her and by a big amount.
 
Yeah? He is below them, not "significantly", not even by a degree of one shotting. He is simply lower, he would lose, he did lose, deciphering didnt affect her ability to fight, dont know why you bring that up, she was almost done anyway and had been doing it for days. And it's true she was casual, but it's also true he wasnt going all out, remember, NEITHER wanted to kill the other, at all, he fought seriously in a safe setting, but youre ignoring a bit of context. By overplaying her superiority is a bit much, just say it how it is. She's better, how much? Idk a bit at least, but "significantly" is the type of wording we use for like straight up mutilations.

He's weaker, no need to do mental gymnastics to exaggerate how much, we know Macht is still a threat to her and dangerous because she says as much, and isnt even sure she could beat him in a direct fight, and she fights Solitaire, who aint exactly magnitudes above Macht either, and struggles against her. I mean if Frieren actually gave a shit about fighting she'd quickly fodderize most the verse but that aint how she be.

I wasnt at all talking about her 600yo encounter, at that point she was nothing to him.

This, btw, isnt even getting into the fact Frieren as a verse doesnt have a strict UES, and some spells do things just because theyre made to, it's why flight has a height and speed limit even. Dont get to wild now.
 
Chariot190 said:
Yeah? He is below them, not "significantly", not even by a degree of one shotting. He is simply lower, he would lose, he did lose, deciphering didnt affect her ability to fight, dont know why you bring that up, she was almost done anyway and had been doing it for days. And it's true she was casual, but it's also true he wasnt going all out, remember, NEITHER wanted to kill the other, at all, he fought seriously in a safe setting, but youre ignoring a bit of context. By overplaying her superiority is a bit much, just say it how it is. She's better, how much? Idk a bit at least, but "significantly" is the type of wording we use for like straight up mutilations.

He's weaker, no need to do mental gymnastics to exaggerate how much, we know Macht is still a threat to her and dangerous because she says as much, and isnt even sure she could beat him in a direct fight, and she fights Solitaire, who aint exactly magnitudes above Macht either, and struggles against her. I mean if Frieren actually gave a shit about fighting she'd quickly fodderize most the verse but that aint how she be.

I wasnt at all talking about her 600yo encounter, at that point she was nothing to him.

This, btw, isnt even getting into the fact Frieren as a verse doesnt have a strict UES, and some spells do things just because theyre made to, it's why flight has a height and speed limit even. Dont get to wild now.
Click to expand...
Maybe he isn't weaker by a degree of one shotting but definitely to a degree in which he can't harm her since she casually blocked his serious attacks.
It doesn't have a strict UES but it is good enough. Idk why you bring that up here actually.
Macht was a threat to Frieren but we seriously don't know to what extent. With his main trump card being useless he would get fodderized in a confrontation with her for sure since she IS the best at Zoltraak as she is the one who worked on deciphering it, only being potentially worse than Fern due to speed and maybe Serie due to sheer power. Basically I don't think Macht is a good comparison point for powerscaling here.

Frieren wasn't as concentrated as she could've been due to her solving the barrier. When she was deciphering Macht's memories she had to use lots of mana and concetration. This isn't quite the same but it would affect her, she wouldn't be fighting with full concetration and power.

Frieren struggles against Soltäire mainly due to how her attacks work. Frieren only gets in trouble when the mana blast gets used which is almost hax since it is a blunt, invisible and very fast attack. We don't know how Soltäire compares since she and Macht never fought. Macht relies on hax and close combat rather than other magic while Soltäire relies on ranged magic packed with mana. Comparing them feels wrong.

Anyways, I think this argument is aimless since we won't be reaching Low 7-C+ with the upscaling anyways. Frieren scales above Denken and Serie scales way above them both. Fern scales around the same level as Denken.
 
Arceus0x said:
Maybe he isn't weaker by a degree of one shotting but definitely to a degree in which he can't harm her since she casually blocked his serious attacks.
Click to expand...
And thus, saying significantly stronger, is wank.

His serious attacks? The way magic defense works would block just about anything, even if it was stronger than her to a degree. It's a bit fucky and there's a limit, but still.

Arceus0x said:
It doesn't have a strict UES but it is good enough. Idk why you bring that up here actually.
Click to expand...
Im saying dont push it, spells have strict effects, how do we know this spell's power correlates to other spells? It isnt basic offense magic after all. Aka, dont take a mile from a inch.

Arceus0x said:
Macht was a threat to Frieren but we seriously don't know to what extent. With his main trump card being useless he would get fodderized in a confrontation with her for sure since she IS the best at Zoltraak as she is the one who worked on deciphering it, only being potentially worse than Fern due to speed and maybe Serie due to sheer power. Basically I don't think Macht is a good comparison point for powerscaling here.
Click to expand...
If that was the case she couldve beat his ass at any time, matter of the fact is, she said he was dangerous, didnt know if she could even win if they fought, at one point says she doesnt think she would, and his trump card? If that was the only issue she could just zoltrack and one shot his ass and defenses if she was so far above him like you claim.
She isn't, Mact is established by a legitimate threat outside his one curse, it's just the curse makes him untouchable.


Arceus0x said:
Frieren wasn't as concentrated as she could've been due to her solving the barrier. When she was deciphering Macht's memories she had to use lots of mana and concetration. This isn't quite the same but it would affect her, she wouldn't be fighting with full concetration and power.
Click to expand...
Yeah no, her casually deciphering a forcefield, one she almost had done anyway, is NOT THE same as having to use all her brain power to systematically decipher a demon's life and unknown science to the point she was basically vegetative for 3 months.

Against Denken, they make absolutely zero implication it's affecting her combat ability, if it did, which is total conjecture, it'd be so negligible it wouldnt even matter.

Arceus0x said:
Frieren struggles against Soltäire mainly due to how her attacks work. Frieren only gets in trouble when the mana blast gets used which is almost hax since it is a blunt, invisible and very fast attack.
Click to expand...
You do know her attack is, in her own words, pure, raw, power right? It is the opposite of hax, it's basically raw kinetic energy.
Arceus0x said:
We don't know how Soltäire compares since she and Macht never fought. Macht relies on hax and close combat rather than other magic while Soltäire relies on ranged magic packed with mana. Comparing them feels wrong.
Click to expand...
Actually, not true, we're told her and Macht have about equal mana; they're comparable. Plus, he's stated by other great demons to be among the strongest. If Frieren aint eclipsing Soli, by direct proxy she cant eclipse Macht.

Arceus0x said:
Macht relies on hax and close combat rather than other magic while Soltäire relies on ranged magic packed with mana. Comparing them feels wrong.
Click to expand...
That's true, but, he is also still capable of other magic, including his gold petal storm. Frieren herself is in a state of "can beat him, but if she actually would is hard to tell" as said by Soli (who actually knows how strong she is, thanks time travel), because we're flatout told this.

And, case and point, hax, magic power, magic hax, it all just depends on the spell, even using a fire tornado to scale is a bit off if we dont know how much of that is spell rules and visualization of magic and how much is one's power, i wont chase this though because whatever they probably are above it anyway, but still.


Arceus0x said:
Anyways, I think this argument is aimless since we won't be reaching Low 7-C+ with the upscaling anyways.
Click to expand...
It is, but wording is important, if you want to say she's stronger, go ahead, you'd be right, but saying significantly though conveys an absolute insane gap, which is inflation, if Frieren aint careful she could get taken out and he could in turn take a few hits even if he ultimately loses. There's a gap, it aint no one shot or stomp tho.
Arceus0x said:
Frieren scales above Denken and Serie scales way above them both. Fern scales around the same level as Denken.
Click to expand...
Fern is literally getting scarily close to Frieren, a drastically weaker Fern than now could briefly fight Frieren's phantom remember? She's still quite a bit below, but if Denken = Current Fern, that all but tells me Frieren aint stomping him.

Fyi Macht could defend against a few of casual Serie's attacks. Obviously she wasnt all out, but still.
 
I think this entire argument stems from you thinking for some reason that significantly means massively above or sth. Significantly means that it is significant, it is notable, it isn't just somewhat above. A person 2x stronger than another would be significantly stronger since that difference isn't marginal.
 
Just proved my point, the hell you getting 2x from?

She's stronger, how much? Dont know, just is, so just say she is, especially given significantly isnt used that way. You can argue semantics, but me and you both know when someone uses it, it's meant to convey a huge difference.
 
Chariot190 said:
Just proved my point, the hell you getting 2x from?

She's stronger, how much? Dont know, just is, so just say she is, especially given significantly isnt used that way. You can argue semantics, but me and you both know when someone uses it, it's meant to convey a huge difference.
Click to expand...
Homie I never said she is 2x stronger I am saying what significant is in my eyes. Goodness sake man you're blowing an elephant out of a fly, the whole thing's irrelevant anyways because everyone scales to 1.07 kilotons and > and < are basically irrelevant in versus battles when the gap is 2 or 3x
 
I dont care about matches, merely how it is indexed.

I want it to be concise, without any potential misconceptions.
 
The calculations are already made, so I agree. I think saying that Frieren is a Low 7-C+ might not be all that necessary if we didn't have an exact multiplier. I think just adding "At least Low 7-C" is enough. Unless you have a multiplier for this.
 
This calc has been accepted

Should we use this calculation instead? @Dalesean027

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Frieren - Calculations that affect the God Tier of this verse

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Richter raises the ground (Anime):
LS : 7,327,943,056.66 kg (Class M)
AP : 171.08 Tons of TNT (Multi-City Block Level) 8A

Lawine Frozen Lake (Anime): 429.491347992 Tons of TNT (Multi-City Block level) 8A

Denken denks a tornado all over the place (Manga): 10.87 Kilotons of TNT (Town level) 7C
 
Last edited:
Manhattanth06 said:
This calc has been accepted

Should we use this calculation instead? @Dalesean027

vsbattles.fandom.com

Frieren - Calculations that affect the God Tier of this verse

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com


Richter raises the ground (Anime):
LS : 7,327,943,056.66 kg (Class M)
AP : 171.08 Tons of TNT (Multi-City Block Level) 8A

Lawine Frozen Lake (Anime): 429.491347992 Tons of TNT (Multi-City Block level) 8A

Denken denks a tornado all over the place (Manga): 10.87 Kilotons of TNT (Town level) 7C
Click to expand...
They are accepted mathematically but I've expressed that I really don't want to overrely on anime. Using the plateau as a point of measure is wrong in my eyes as it takes several calculatory stages to get the size of the lake and the size of the tornado from that while using the lake as a point of measure makes more sense since since that only takes one (literally a shot of a person standing on the lake). If we also went with the mound size it would contradict the lake calc pixel scaling despite it being more blatant.
 
Arceus0x said:
They are accepted mathematically but I've expressed that I really don't want to overrely on anime. Using the plateau as a point of measure is wrong in my eyes as it takes several calculatory stages to get the size of the lake and the size of the tornado from that while using the lake as a point of measure makes more sense since since that only takes one (literally a shot of a person standing on the lake). If we also went with the mound size it would contradict the lake calc pixel scaling despite it being more blatant.
Click to expand...
And this I've also agreed with this notion in thw discussions thread. That's why I only approved of the math not its usability
 
Arceus0x said:
Ya think Deagon's vote is enough? If so then this can be added
Click to expand...
As far as the wiki goes I'd say this is a pretty small verse so maybe? we could potentially need another but I think we're good
 
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