FOX Fantastic Four Downgrade

[Limbless_Athena]

I was in a vs thread and saw that the profile for Susan Storm from the FOX Fantastic Four movies was inaccurate. I already said why there, so let me just paste that here.

nobody in any of the movies is that strong or durable. Mr. Fantastic got knocked out from falling off a skyscraper, Sue got tired just from containing a bunch of car explosions, Johnny also got hurt falling off a building, The Thing struggled to keep a firetruck from falling and could barely lift the London Eye for a few seconds with help, and all of them were terrified of Doctor Doom when he had the Silver Surfer's board even though his best feat with that was collapsing a mountain.

****, Johnny's 'supernova' wouldn't even cause multi-continent damage on its own. Reed in the movie said 'Not only could you kill yourself, but you could set fire to Earth's atmosphere and destroy all human life as we know it.' destroying all human life by setting fire to the planet's atmosphere isn't a feat of power, it just means him getting that hot could do something to the environment that would kill everyone as a result.

Almost all of the other FOX FF profiles (Johnny, Ben, Doctor Doom) are scaled off this one feat for some reason even though the feat itself isn't even a straight destructive feat and all the characters struggle with weaker stuff anyway. the FOX movies never portray the characters as being multi-continent strength, and it doesn't make sense to scale them to that.

All the FOX FF's other feats are here. Their stats should be based on those.

 

[ElixirBlue]

destroying all human life by setting fire to the planet's atmosphere isn't a feat of power, it just means him getting that hot could do something to the environment that would kill everyone as a result.

Heat can be calced into AP via Energy. Its not like Heat is an unquantified Hax like body swapping, since Heat can be calc by real world science.

 

[Bernkastelll]

I was in a vs thread and saw that the profile for Susan Storm from the FOX Fantastic Four movies was inaccurate. I already said why there, so let me just paste that here.


Almost all of the other FOX FF profiles (Johnny, Ben, Doctor Doom) are scaled off this one feat for some reason even though the feat itself isn't even a straight destructive feat and all the characters struggle with weaker stuff anyway. the FOX movies never portray the characters as being multi-continent strength, and it doesn't make sense to scale them to that.

All the FOX FF's other feats are here. Their stats should be based on those.

Things like Heat and Air feats can have AP, but I will wait the others comments

 

[Limbless_Athena]

Heat can be calced into AP via Energy. Its not like Heat is an unquantified Hax like body swapping, since Heat can be calc by real world science.

I never said that. I said setting fire to the planet's atmosphere isn't a feat of power, and it isn't. that's a chain reaction that'd kill everyone as a result, and the movie doesn't even say what it would do other than 'end all life as we know it'.

and even if we can calc the actual temperature he reached into energy, it shouldn't reach that high. Johnny only got as hot as the sun. Nuke explosions get 20x hotter than the sun and don't carry enough energy to destroy multiple continents or kill all life on the planet.

and even then, the point about them struggling to do weaker feats still stands.

 

[The_Impress]

Propose substitute stats in your own opinion :v

I agree btw, also heat feats are wonky as shit to use anyways.

 

[The_Impress]

Heat can be calced into AP via Energy. Its not like Heat is an unquantified Hax like body swapping, since Heat can be calc by real world science.

Heat isn't related to Kinetic Energy/Potential Energy relationship, it is related to shit like Melting points and Boiling points.

Our system deals primarily in KE/PE relationships and heat does in fact act as a "hax" in real life.

A copper wire can conduct tons of electricity generating extreme amounts of heat that'll burn your hands off, yet you can still break it. You're not an amazingly high tier.

Also electricity and acid can be converted to Energy too, that's not what's relevant. It has to be a form of energy worth shit

"Things like Heat and Air feats can have AP, but I will wait the others comments"

Air is still KE, negligible KE admittedly but when done on a large enough scale it can yield fairly impressive results. Heat can have AP if the verse has a mechanic where Energy used to create heat was also used in punches 1-to-1, so unified energy systems.

Real life doesn't have a universal energy system, heat doesn't convert one-to-one into KE hell it converts extremely negligibly.

Surprisingly nigh-massless particles everpresent in the universe can't push you away

 

[Limbless_Athena]

Propose substitute stats in your own opinion :v

I was gonna leave that up to other people since I'm new here and I dunno how you all rate things. I did link a RT that has everybody's feats in it, but most of them involve cars blowing up/getting stopped/being lifted/getting smashed/whatever and I didn't see a 'Car/Truck level' on the tiering system.

I guess some stuff that looks notable to me would be:

• Sue contained a bunch of car explosions. (she gets worn out from this so it's her limit probably)
• Ben and Reed fine after getting hit with a big concrete piece and smashed into a wall.
• Ben pulls a hanging firetruck back onto a bridge. (another thing that left the him tired, probably not something he can do a lot)
• Ben koolaid mans a wall. (he does this a lot)
• Ben crumples Johnny's car like a paper ball.
• Ben shouldertackles a speeding truck and stops it. No damage.
• this whole sequence with Ben and Doctor Doom.
• this one with them two also. No damage to Doom.
• Doom blows up a car.
• Doom's bulletproof.

If it looks like Ben and Doom have all the good feats it's because they do, the others don't do a lot physically and a lot of their feats are because their powers make things easier. (Reed takes a lot of blunt damage because of his stretchy powers, Johnny survives falling off a cliff because he landed on snow and his body temperature melted through it until he was out of momentum, etc)

Ben and Doom scale to each other when Doom doesn't have Silver Surfer's board. Everybody else should just be rated off their own feats because Ben proves he's physically stronger than everyone else many times.

 

[The_Impress]

I was gonna leave that up to other people since I'm new here and I dunno how you all rate things. I did link a RT that has everybody's feats in it, but most of them involve cars blowing up/getting stopped/being lifted/getting smashed/whatever and I didn't see a 'Car/Truck level' on the tiering system.

Complete destruction of cars are typically 9-A, and getting rammed hy a truck is just, Kinetic Energy of the truck so, varies from 9-B to 9-A

I guess some stuff that looks notable to me would be:

• Sue contained a bunch of car explosions. (she gets worn out from this so it's her limit probably)

Meh imo this is PIS, she has blocked a stronger attack of the whole supernova thing.

• Ben and Reed fine after getting hit with a big concrete piece and smashed into a wall.

I think this is 9-A

• Ben pulls a hanging firetruck back onto a bridge. (another thing that left the him tired, probably not something he can do a lot)

We can probably derive LS and Durability from this, I've done a similar calc prior.

• Ben crumples Johnny's car like a paper ball.

9-A too

• Ben shouldertackles a speeding truck and stops it. No damage.

9-A most likely as well

• this whole sequence with Ben and Doctor Doom.

This looks 9-B. Also this is a pornsite link kek

• this one with them two also. No damage to Doom.

Also also 9-A and also also pornsite

• Doom blows up a car.

nein Ayy

• Doom's bulletproof.

Meh, 9-B

 

[Limbless_Athena]

Complete destruction of cars are typically 9-A, and getting rammed hy a truck is just, Kinetic Energy of the truck so, varies from 9-B to 9-A

Meh imo this is PIS, she has blocked a stronger attack of the whole supernova thing.

I think this is 9-A

We can probably derive LS and Durability from this, I've done a similar calc prior.

9-A too

9-A most likely as well

This looks 9-B. Also this is a pornsite link kek

Also also 9-A and also also pornsite

nein Ayy

Meh, 9-B

lmao, don't look at me, I'm not the one who used that site for their RT links. i have an adblocker, so I didn't even see that until I checked the link on my phone.

But yeah, basically they've got a lot of stuff that looks like 9-A? I guess that sounds fine to me. although with Susan's feat, wouldn't the supernova thing just be an outlier then? Containing a firestorm as hot as the sun seems like a lot more than 'Small Building level', especially with how big it was. And unlike with the comics she's not the strongest in the FF in these movies, not by a long shot.

 

[The_Impress]

Idk dude, does anyone break her forcefields in this universe?

 

[Limbless_Athena]

Well Doom almost does, but Reed interrupts him. She 100% wouldn't have survived if he hadn't, though.

 

[The_Impress]

Mehhh, I doubt this.

I'll settle for 9-A, likely far higher

 

[Limbless_Athena]

Works for me.

...should I wait for other people to say things? I dunno how these kinds of threads usually work.

 

[The_Impress]

Meh, I think I should tag a few calc members to check this thread. We need a new set of calcs for them anyways

@DMUA @Mr._Bambu @Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan

Checc and calc a few feats gibben like, 5 messages before, pwease

 

[The_Impress]

Ben and Reed fine after getting hit with a big concrete piece and smashed into a wall.

Ben pulls a hanging firetruck back onto a bridge. (another thing that left the him tired, probably not something he can do a lot)

Namely these two because the first one seems to have a high yield while the latter gives LS

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

I don't think we have officially separated force and heat feats, but a good argument can be made for it being an outlier as well as invalid for reasons mentioned above.

I do remember some good feats I'll try to look them up later

 

[Armorchompy]

Firetrucks are about 20 tons iirc

As for the crater feat it's kind of an uneven shape but assuming the volume is x2.5 the human body (considering the thing, who's a big dude, and a flattened reed were in there plus some extra empty space on the sides), vfrag of reinforced concrete would give 62000 x 2.5 x 61.2 = 9486000 J, which is fairly high up into 9-B. KE of the concrete piece thrown at them would likely give similar results

 

[Hellbeast]

Always felt this was an outlier

I agree with downgrades

 

[Armorchompy]

Sue contained a bunch of car explosions. (she gets worn out from this so it's her limit probably)

Probably one the best feats here but idk how strong car explosions really are

Ben and Reed fine after getting hit with a big concrete piece and smashed into a wall.

Gone over that already

• Ben pulls a hanging firetruck back onto a bridge. (another thing that left the him tired, probably not something he can do a lot)

Same here

• Ben koolaid mans a wall. (he does this a lot)

Standard 9-B feat

• Ben crumples Johnny's car like a paper ball.

Likely the best LS feat

• Ben shouldertackles a speeding truck and stops it. No damage.

He really just stood in the truck's way so this is 9-B as vehicle KE doesn't really get above that, especially since the dude was trying to brake.

• this whole sequence with Ben and Doctor Doom.

The Thing falling might get pretty high since he's likely very heavy.

• this one with them two also. No damage to Doom.

9-B

• Doom blows up a car.

Not 9-A, he just blew up the fuel

• Doom's bulletproof.

9-C/9-B

Imo Susan containing a supernova seems like a huge outlier to me but maybe you can just say she got stronger between movies

 

[Limbless_Athena]

She did that in the first movie, so that doesn't work. It wasn't an actual supernova though, it was Johnny creating a fire storm as hot as the sun. they call it 'going supernova' in the movie even though that's not what that means.

Ben weighs a lot also, yeah. He's too heavy to take an elevator.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Can we mcdeltat the firestorm?

 

[Armorchompy]

elevators in high-rise apartments usually carry up to 1.8 tons so that's really good, the ke of him falling might be 9-A

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Terminal velocity lol

 

[Armorchompy]

Terminal velocity would be way higher for someone who's 1.5 tons but has the surface area of a human, more or less. Maybe not 9-A but it's worth calcing for sure

 

[The_Impress]

As for the crater feat it's kind of an uneven shape but assuming the volume is x2.5 the human body (considering the thing, who's a big dude, and a flattened reed were in there plus some extra empty space on the sides), vfrag of reinforced concrete would give 62000 x 2.5 x 61.2 = 9486000 J, which is fairly high up into 9-B. KE of the concrete piece thrown at them would likely give similar results

Maybe we scale only Reed to this, does any value change?

 

[Armorchompy]

Hm? It's the same attack, I don't understand wym. But he tanked it through elasticity, not actual durability.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Bit irrelevant but Human Torch has a physical feat of being thrown from outer space back onto Earth and he stupidly sped himself up even faster with his powers

at least 9-B

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

References for Common Feats

Throughout fiction and real life, there have been numerous feats demonstrating a certain character's or object's destructive power. This page's purpose is to consolidate calculations for those feats for better convenience in determining an object's or character's Attack Potency or Durability...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Increasing your own body temperature to that of the Sun would be 8-C by the way, but idk if that is a good value to scale to

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I don't think we have officially separated force and heat feats, but a good argument can be made for it being an outlier as well as invalid for reasons mentioned above.

I do remember some good feats I'll try to look them up later

We haven't, no. Outliers are still outliers though.

 

[The_Impress]

Did Dargoo's revision not reach a conclusion or something? I've heard contradicting claims from other calc members :v

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

I haven't been following it since the forum move but I do not believe so

 

[Limbless_Athena]

References for Common Feats

Throughout fiction and real life, there have been numerous feats demonstrating a certain character's or object's destructive power. This page's purpose is to consolidate calculations for those feats for better convenience in determining an object's or character's Attack Potency or Durability...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Increasing your own body temperature to that of the Sun would be 8-C by the way, but idk if that is a good value to scale to

Heyyy, this blog is awesome!

it says that's 8-A unless I'm reading it wrong, but either way it's still weird. All the other feats in the first movie besides the 'supernova' thing are apparently 9-B, and the FF were struggling with some of those. this means the whole end of the movie just has this sudden jump from everybody being 9-B to Johnny putting out building/multi-city-block tier heat, Doom just walking it off and Sue containing it with a lot of trouble.

the only other time they do anything on that level without amps is when they save the London Eye in the second movie, and they had to work together to do that. Ben was left exhausted and Sue almost died from overexertion.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Heyyy, this blog is awesome!

it says that's 8-A unless I'm reading it wrong, but either way it's still weird. All the other feats in the first movie besides the 'supernova' thing are apparently 9-B, and the FF were struggling with some of those. this means the whole end of the movie just has this sudden jump from everybody being 9-B to Johnny putting out building/multi-city-block tier heat, Doom just walking it off and Sue containing it with a lot of trouble.

the only other time they do anything on that level without amps is when they save the London Eye in the second movie, and they had to work together to do that. Ben was left exhausted and Sue almost died from overexertion.

It's 8-C for surface of the Sun and 8-A for core of the Sun. iirc they said Human Torch was 5000ish Kelvins, not as hot as the core.

8-C could be reasonable as the absolute max since the Thing seems to be casually 9-A

 

[Limbless_Athena]

Maybe. the others said something about doing calcs though. Maybe we should wait until those get done before we say for sure?

Also I just realized I forgot to mention speed. Speed is too high. Most of the FOX FF characters can't even outrun cars and need vehicles just to travel long distances fast, and Johnny (he's the fastest out of all of them) was barely outflying a missile. I also don't know why Doom 'wielding electicity' makes him massively hypersonic, but he's not exempt from this either, he has no real speed feats when he's not on Silver Surfer's board.

 

[Hellbeast]

Yea wielding electricity would support a Supersonic rating

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Completely deforming the entire car is already known to be 9-A

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Maybe. the others said something about doing calcs though. Maybe we should wait until those get done before we say for sure?

Also I just realized I forgot to mention speed. Speed is too high. Most of the FOX FF characters can't even outrun cars and need vehicles just to travel long distances fast, and Johnny (he's the fastest out of all of them) was barely outflying a missile. I also don't know why Doom 'wielding electicity' makes him massively hypersonic, but he's not exempt from this either, he has no real speed feats when he's not on Silver Surfer's board.

Human Torch has this feat

Human Torch (FOX) Flight Speed

vsbattles.fandom.com

Although is there any evidence that his combat speed scales to his flight speed?

I think Doctor Doom's rating was meant to be his attack speed of his electricity, but we should clarify that better on his page.

 

[Limbless_Athena]

Human Torch has this feat

Human Torch (FOX) Flight Speed

vsbattles.fandom.com

Although is there any evidence that his combat speed scales to his flight speed?

I think Doctor Doom's rating was meant to be his attack speed of his electricity, but we should clarify that better on his page.

I forgot about this. nobody else scales though. The rest of the FF needed a special flying vehicle just to keep up with Doctor Doom when he had Surfer's board.

There isn't any evidence of that, because it doesn't. he has problems when he's on his feet and even Ben can tag him when he's on the ground even though Ben's the slowest member of the team.

Why would Doom's electricity be massively hypersonic?

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Our current Lightning Feats standards say that if your electricity is greater than that of a lightning it counts as over lightning speed.

Although if we're downgrading the characters that might no longer be the case

 

[Limbless_Athena]

Huh. I guess that depends on what rating they get in base then. idk what you guys have lightning rated as, but Doom's electricity isn't any more powerful than he is based on the few feats he's got with it.