Four Arms vs Eight Arms (0-10-0) (grace)

[MintyBoi1]

kurgan has 2x the arms, even if you wanna ignore the fact that he just precogs and dodges everything and then counterstrikes with a perfect hit, he will still have 4 extra arms coming up

2x isnt big enough for that to happen, and again Kurgan can physically just dodge or counter as well. He will also not be pushing him away and clashes are striking strength based not LS based

Arms that can’t really move Four Arms, I feel like this is some supreme skill wank on Re:Zero. Clashes are like two weapons smushing up against each other, I’d think the stronger one wins there.

 

[Zabazab]

Again I don't think Four Arms can even hit Kurgan. Even in CQC. This feels unfair to Four Arms, Kurgan will cut him down very quickly.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Arms that can’t really move Four Arms, I feel like this is some supreme skill wank on Re:Zero. Clashes are like two weapons smushing up against each other, I’d think the stronger one wins there.

Well again, how would he even manage to hit a dude who scales an eternity above his skill feats which are already overwhelming FA?

 

[MintyBoi1]

First link is broken, and not to brag or anything but Kurgan would probably flex on FA by riding the 2nd one and it literally not doing anything

Both scans are on Four Arms’ page for reference. And if Kurgan is hit with Seismic Toss, he should be open for a followup.

 

[OMNIVERSAL-KING]

56 gigatons > 26 gigatons
So fourarms

 

[MintyBoi1]

Well again, how would he even manage to hit a dude who scales an eternity above his skill feats which are already overwhelming FA?

How’s he scale an eternity above when Ben has outskilled a dude who is a warrior, 200 years old, and who conquered 10 planets and had more abilities than him? Vilgax is no joke.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Both scans are on Four Arms’ page for reference. And if Kurgan is hit with Seismic Toss, he should be open for a followup.

Nope, It would be one of those goofy terrain moving attacks (btw chatacters like Alsebaran can straight up xhange the terrain they are fighting and not even Garfiel would be shaken up by that....actually Garf used something similar in their rematch lemme check what kurgan did there)

 

[MintyBoi1]

I’m assuming all those people were comparable in stats, Four Arms is far above Kurgan in LS and has a good AP advantage. I feel like him changing the terrain would be more effective than either of those guys.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

How’s he scale an eternity above when Ben has outskilled a dude who is a warrior, 200 years old, and who conquered 10 planets and had more abilities than him? Vilgax is no joke.

We are strictly basing this on skill here.
Kurgan is the one who upscales an eternity above the characters that performed the skill feats on his profile so he is much much worse in actual combat thsn his profile actually shows

I’m assuming all those people were comparable in stats, Four Arms is far above Kurgan in LS and has a good AP advantage. I feel like him changing the terrain would be more effective than either of those guys.

Pretty sure Garf was actually stronger AND faster in that certain fight and was still having trouble. And that was the resurrected version which is axtually less skilled

 

[Zabazab]

How’s he scale an eternity above when Ben has outskilled a dude who is a warrior, 200 years old, and who conquered 10 planets and had more abilities than him? Vilgax is no joke.

These are totally empty feats without context, they have no meaning on their own.

What are Ben's/people he's fought's feats of analytical precog, instinctive action, info analysis, etc.

 

[MintyBoi1]

We are strictly basing this on skill here.
Kurgan is the one who upscales an eternity above the characters that performed the skill feats on his profile so he is much much worse in actual combat thsn his profile actually shows

Pretty sure Garf was actually stronger AND faster in that certain fight and was still having trouble. And that was the resurrected version which is axtually less skilled

I’m talking about skill so I’m missing your point. As for the stuff on his profile, Theresia’s whole seeing weak point things sounds like Tanjiro seeing the white line when he’s about to kill a demon, it’s impressive but doesn’t scream skill stomp. The rest is basic stuff like avoiding and predicting attacks, stuff you usually see in an anime. I’m not a big Re:Zero stan, so maybe I’m missing something here, but it doesn’t seem that insane.

 

[MintyBoi1]

These are totally empty feats without context, they have no meaning on their own.

What are Ben's/people he's fought's feats of analytical precog, instinctive action, info analysis, etc.

I mean, Kurgan’s feats are also based off being better than others. The context is in the show. My point is Ben can deal with people who are highly skilled, have more tools than he does, are more experienced than him, and who can fight for very long periods of time. He also has training like mentioned which put him from a normal human to taking on whole other species mainly with skill. He should be somewhat comparable to Max who also took on aliens for decades, beat Vilgax, and fought evenly with a High Breed while out of his prime. You don’t have to sprinkle on ludicrous amounts of hax and scaling to be skilled. The dude literally took on a god of death at 10 years old.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

I’m talking about skill so I’m missing your point. As for the stuff on his profile, Theresia’s whole seeing weak point things sounds like Tanjiro seeing the white line when he’s about to kill a demon, it’s impressive but doesn’t scream skill stomp.

Well imagine this, you are chilling on the side of the beach. Enjoying your kool-aid or whatever drink you like, the ocean waves are calming your nerves and relaxing you to a point you have never felt before
You decide to read to spend your time
Then you read through the bs that is Theresia's divine blessing of the sword saint, she can ******* know all your weak spots just by looking at you, any movement you do is a mistake in her eyes.
ReZero mid tiers are skill gods in their own rights, Ram can copy anything she has seen or even sensed once (she has copied an authority), any attack that Elsa sees once wont ever work on her again and she can hit her opponents vitals even after all of her senses had been cut off and her mind was floating in a void, Julius can straight up cancel magic with sheer skill alone, Garfiel level fights have a 0 time difference between thought and action because otherwise they will face death, Emilia without any prior training can predict and dodge a rain of attacks just by sensing her opponents hostility and intent, Ram can make her attacks unreadable to opponents like Ley Batenkaitos who are so broken in precog that opponents like Julius and Ricardo together couldn't even hit him properly. Long range fighters like Baleroy, tricksters like Olbart, sleeze bags like Roswaal, Martial artists like Ram, the greatest swordsman, archers, axe wielders etc. Are all inferior to her to such a massive degree rhat even training for an infinite period of time wont let them reach her level of proficiency in any single weapon or way of combat. Forget everything she does. Kurgan is one of the rare few individuals that can deal with her

The rest is basic stuff like avoiding and predicting attacks, stuff you usually see in an anime. I’m not a big Re:Zero stan, so maybe I’m missing something here, but it doesn’t seem that insane.

Oh yeah I do agree that it didn't seem insane to me at first too

Ram also dodged an attack that was much much much faster rhan her but uh lets not bring that up ever again for the entire fandom's sanity

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

I mean, Kurgan’s feats are also based off being better than others. The context is in the show. My point is Ben can deal with people who are highly skilled, have more tools than he does, are more experienced than him, and who can fight for very long periods of time.

those are stamina feats not skill feats

He also has training like mentioned which put him from a normal human to taking on whole other species mainly with skill. He should be somewhat comparable to Max who also took on aliens for decades, beat Vilgax, and fought evenly with a High Breed while out of his prime.

those scale to AP and again you haven't mentioned WHAT skill feats they are.

You don’t have to sprinkle on ludicrous amounts of hax and scaling to be skilled. The dude literally took on a god of death at 10 years old.

You do know that you actually need to do that right...

 

[DemonicDude]

Here is a hug for everyone in this thread

 

[Zabazab]

I mean, Kurgan’s feats are also based off being better than others. The context is in the show. My point is Ben can deal with people who are highly skilled, have more tools than he does, are more experienced than him, and who can fight for very long periods of time. He also has training like mentioned which put him from a normal human to taking on whole other species mainly with skill. He should be somewhat comparable to Max who also took on aliens for decades, beat Vilgax, and fought evenly with a High Breed while out of his prime. You don’t have to sprinkle on ludicrous amounts of hax and scaling to be skilled.

Kurgan's justification being that he's better than others is fine because I'm saying what they can actually do, i.e their feats of combat skill.

What you've listed here is that he fights people who are "highly skilled" (zero context therefore meaningless), have more experience (experience doesn't actually relate to skill at all without context), have more stamina (ok?), that he's trained and can fight other species (what does this training allow him to do in combat? what species?), that he's equal to Max who is experienced (again, meaningless), beat Vilgax and a High Breed (What are their skill feats then?)

And I don't know what you mean by hax, because Kurgan has no method of bypassing durability.

 

[MintyBoi1]

Well imagine this, you are chilling on the side of the beach. Enjoying your kool-aid or whatever drink you like, the ocean waves are calming your nerves and relaxing you to a point you have never felt before
You decide to read to spend your time
Then you read through the bs that is Theresia's divine blessing of the sword saint, she can ******* know all your weak spots just by looking at you, any movement you do is a mistake in her eyes. ReZero mid tiers are skill gods in their own rights, Ram can copy anything she has seen or even sensed once (she has copied an authority), any attack that Elsa sees once wont ever work on her again and she can hit her opponents vitals even after all of her senses had been cut off and her mind was floating in a void, Julius can straight up cancel magic with sheer skill alone, Garfiel level fights have a 0 time difference between thought and action because otherwise they will face death, Emilia without any prior training can predict and dodge a rain of attacks just by sensing her opponents hostility and intent, Ram can make her attacks unreadable to opponents like Ley Batenkaitos who are so broken in precog that opponents like Julius and Ricardo together couldn't even hit him properly. Long range fighters like Baleroy, tricksters like Olbart, sleeze bags like Roswaal, Martial artists like Ram, the greatest swordsman, archers, axe wielders etc. Are all inferior to her to such a massive degree rhat even training for an infinite period of time wont let them reach her level of proficiency in any single weapon or way of combat. Forget everything she does. Kurgan is one of the rare few individuals that can deal with her

Oh yeah I do agree that it didn't seem insane to me at first too

Ram also dodged an attack that was much much much faster rhan her but uh lets not bring that up ever again for the entire fandom's sanity

Now those sound like some skill feats.

those are stamina feats not skill feats

those scale to AP and again you haven't mentioned WHAT skill feats they are.

You do know that you actually need to do that right...

Outskilling someone is a skill feat. And I disagree every skilled character needs analytical prediction or instinctive action. Look at Batman, he’s good at martial arts and can hit pressure points. He doesn’t have all these crazy anime abilities, yet you can still say he’s highly skilled. Not every character is built the exact way, there’s no one skill build. Even someone like Black Star doesn’t have instinctive action, and he’s good enough to be a Warrior God.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Now those sound like some skill feats.

Outskilling someone is a skill feat. And I disagree every skilled character needs analytical prediction or instinctive action. Look at Batman, he’s good at martial arts and can hit pressure points. He doesn’t have all these crazy anime abilities, yet you can still say he’s highly skilled. Not every character is built the exact way, there’s no one skill build. Even someone like Black Star doesn’t have instinctive action, and he’s good enough to be a Warrior God.

Being called Highly skilled is one thing being called a literal Skill God on a wiki with other verses is another...
And yeah you still kind of need feats to back up of what exact skill feats you are talking about because well. Emilia being knocked down by someone a million times weaker rhan her is also a skill feat? Subaru knowing what his opponent will do via prior loops via rbd is a skill feat as well but it doesn’t actually do much for him? Heck lets move out of ReZero, some Star wars characters are "highly skilled" for being able to be more skilled than entire galaxy worth of characters but that doesnt mean much if his skill feats are massively below some othrr character.

My point is that saying character Q is skilled for beating character Y because character Y was called extremely skilled is a stupid arguement.
For example, lets take Steve from steve the noob. He is considered the peak of skill in his verse but he isnt even relative to Rem. Cross-verse the meaning of highly skilled is useless and without a metric

 

[MintyBoi1]

Ok then how about Ben wrestling Simian who was stronger than him as a human? Also him taking on Kevin after he obtained every power Ben had. There are characters called skill gods in their verses who still can’t compensate for lacking stats or abilities when facing other characters. This whole skill thing feels off, when I bring up a feat using comparison it’s out of context. But when a Re:Zero has a feat using comparison, it’s valid. This just seems like we need someone besides me knowledgeable on Ben 10 to clear things up on the skill levels at play because this is starting to make absolutely no sense to me on what skill is supposed to mean. If beating someone skilled and beating someone with your skill isn’t skill, I don’t know what the hell the word is supposed to mean.

 

[Reiner04]

Kurgan FRA.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Ok then how about Ben wrestling Simian who was stronger than him as a human? Also him taking on Kevin after he obtained every power Ben had. There are characters called skill gods in their verses who still can’t compensate for lacking stats or abilities when facing other characters. This whole skill thing feels off, when I bring up a feat using comparison it’s out of context. But when a Re:Zero has a feat using comparison, it’s valid. This just seems like we need someone besides me knowledgeable on Ben 10 to clear things up on the skill levels at play because this is starting to make absolutely no sense to me on what skill is supposed to mean.

Btw ReZero is an exception bevause we have a specific power tree rhat grants these skill feats via the flow method and everybody on ir scales to one another
Normally you cant scale one character's skill feats to another

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Kurgan FRA.

Counted

 

[Amon.vl]

Kurgan FRA

 

[Fezzih_007]

Kurgan fra.

 

[MintyBoi1]

Re:Zero

 

[Zabazab]

Ok then how about Ben wrestling Simian who was stronger than him as a human? Also him taking on Kevin after he obtained every power Ben had. There are characters called skill gods in their verses who still can’t compensate for lacking stats or abilities when facing other characters. This whole skill thing feels off, when I bring up a feat using comparison it’s out of context. But when a Re:Zero has a feat using comparison, it’s valid. This just seems like we need someone besides me knowledgeable on Ben 10 to clear things up on the skill levels at play because this is starting to make absolutely no sense to me on what skill is supposed to mean. If beating someone skilled and beating someone with your skill isn’t skill, I don’t know what the hell the word is supposed to mean.

In this case Re:Zero isn't special, you've simply failed to show actual feats. Without context: winning a fight isn't a feat, having experience isn't a feat, and having training isn't a feat.

Predicting an opponent, seeing through an attack, possessing many or difficult techniques, adapting to an opponent on the fly, learning new skills mid-battle, these are all feats that can usually be quantified.

 

[MintyBoi1]

What do you consider a feat? Those three things are showing of skills. A feat is a showing of skill or strength, that’s the literal definition. Maybe I’m just not a Re:Zero fan

 

[Zabazab]

What do you consider a feat? Those three things are showing of skills. A feat is a showing of skill or strength, that’s the literal definition. Maybe I’m just not a Re:Zero fan

It's not a Re:Zero thing... they're just not quantifiable feats in the slightest, and hold little weight due to that.

The power equivalent of this would be "X character can kill a God!", it sounds good, but that's not a quantifiable feat at all unless you know how strong that God is.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Kurgan FRA

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

2 more votes to grace

 

[VortechsTG]

Kurgan FRA

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Kurgan FRA

Counted


If nobody votes in 24 hours, then i will

 

[V999]

Kurgan FRA

 

[BoastJr]

Snip

Just for the sake of discussion Ben has Perfect photographic memory (He could memorise a pattern on darkstar's hand while he was fighting him and said pattern opens a portal to ledgerdomain). He can outskill Pierce (who has weird alien porcupine powers) and use his quills against him. He can dodge Lasers and disarm Manny (a tetramand plumber trainee) without any weapons and pure acrobatics (Even dodging a punch from him on the last second). This is all in human form which makes it more noteworthy.

In ultimate alien he managed to figure out how to beat a Robot designed specifically to hardcounter his aliens (he had abit of prep like 2 fights between a day) (Utilisation of Moves/Aliens he never used against it which is outside the bot's countermeasure).


This is by no means Re:zero level of insanity but hey I think its pretty neat

Anyways I will be voting Kurgan FRA although I don't think the fight is that one sided

 

[VortechsTG]

Just for the sake of discussion Ben has Perfect photographic memory (He could memorise a pattern on darkstar's hand while he was fighting him and said pattern opens a portal to ledgerdomain). He can temporarily fight Pierce (who has weird alien porcupine powers) and use his quills against him. He can dodge Lasers and disarm Manny (a tetramand plumber trainee) without any weapons and pure acrobatics (Even dodging a punch from him on the last second). This is all in human form which makes it more noteworthy.

In ultimate alien he managed to figure out how to beat a Robot designed specifically to hardcounter his aliens (he had abit of prep like 2 fights between a day) (Moves/Aliens he never used against it)


This is by no means Re:zero level of insanity but hey I think its pretty neat

Anyways I will be voting Kurgan FRA although I don't think the fight is that one sided

Yeah, I felt that Ben was not properly being represented so far despite still thinking Kurgan is handily superior. This is well put.

 

[TheHeavenlySword]

Kurgan FRA

 

[Greenshifter]

Well again, how would he even manage to hit a dude who scales an eternity above his skill feats which are already overwhelming FA?

Scaling to Professor Paradox, Dagon and Galactic Gladiator

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Grace has ended, kurgans's first victory can be added to his pŕofile now!

 

[V999]

I already added it

 

[Duedate8898]

Closing