Flash revisions (Wally West)

[Blahblah9755]

So, I was looking at the profile for the Flash (Wally West) and a couple things struck me as odd:

First, we list him as star level with the infinite mass punch, but have no tier for him without it, this wouldn't usually be a problem, except if I understand correctly, the infinite mass punch is achieved by going just below the speed of light, if this is the case, then any opponent with ftl+ reactions or above should have no problem dodging it, and anyone slow enough for it to hit would likely get stomped by Wally's vastly superior speed.

The next issue is that the infinite mass punch seems to be rated a bit to low. Since he said it hits with the force of, not the force to destroy, I think it's safe to assume that Wally was saying his fist has the mass of a white dwarf, if that were the case then hitting with that mass at just below the speed of light would put him at solar system level, as opposed to just star level.

So what are your thoughts, my apologies in advance if either of these points are incorrect or have already been addressed.

 

[Faisal_Shourov]

I think it's fine as it is, if we overthink it will complicate suttf unnecessarily

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

Speaking of Flash revisions..... I am pretty sure that this would account for Infinite/Immeasurable speed on our rating list here.

 

[Alakabamm]

2 things:

1. "Infinite Mass" is not the same as infinite relativistic kinetic energy and I don't see any implications from the author that his speed during it is a mere approximation of the speed of light. That's pretty much speculation.

2. A star does not have "force" and I don't see where you would be getting mass from that. Are you referring to gravity? Well, the gravitational energy holding a star together would be close to the amount to destroy it so I don't think that changes anything. Again, you are mistaking mass for something else.

 

[Faisal_Shourov]

Speaking of Flash revisions..... I am pretty sure that this would account for Infinite/Immeasurable speed on our rating list here.

Have you shown this to Ant? I would like to see his opinion on it

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

Speaking of Flash revisions..... I am pretty sure that this would account for Infinite/Immeasurable speed on our rating list here.

Have you shown this to Ant? I would like to see his opinion on it

I have not as of yet, but I too would like to hear of his opinion.

 

[Blahblah9755]

@Ala On the scan linked on his page for the IMP it says that "AT LIGHT SPEED my punch hits like a white dwarf" Since the punch is supposed to use the principle that as objects get faster they attain more mass, approaching infinite mass as they approach light speed, it seems illogical that it would work at ftl speeds. Also I found a scan that implies he is in fact using the effects of moving at relativistic speeds to do this:


Either way since he only has this level of AP with one attack I feel that it should be noted what his usual AP is, since that's the way we usually do things

For the second point he said that it hits like a white dwarf star, not with the force of a white dwarf star, sorry about that I misremembered, so I was saying that if it hits like a white dwarf star approaching light speed it would be solar system level, but that probably uses too much of an assumption so I'll drop it.

 

[Alakabamm]

AT light speed his punch would have infinite energy.

"The principle that as objects get faster they attain more mass" -> the principle here actually has to do with energy moreso than mass, since e=mc^2

But regardless, since we can't estimate the effects of FTL speeds because they are functionally impossible, it is pretty useless to assume Flash is an exception compared to other FTL characters.

"hits like a white dwarf approaching light speed" -> approaching light speed means approaching infinity. There is no predetermined number. Using the energy of destruction is reallly the only safe way.

 

[Blahblah9755]

From my understanding of the feat, when he says at light speed, it means he's so close to the speed of light that it's nigh indistinguishable.

And, yeah, sorry about that, I just say mass instead of energy since it increases its gravitational pull, so it appears more massive

And that's basically the point I'm trying to make, that since we can't estimate what he would do at ftl speeds, and that the ability is implied to make use of the theory of relativity, we shouldn't assume that he can use it once he surpasses relativistic speeds.

 

[Alakabamm]

"From my understanding of the feat, when he says at light speed, it means he's so close to the speed of light that it's nigh indistinguishable." -> that's not what it says though

We use the star statement because it is the only way it can be quantified. No assumption there, really, and it fits with some of the power levels.

 

[Antvasima]

@AMM Do tou have the images in greater resolution/size? I cannot read the text, as it is too small.

@Blahblah9755 As Alakabamm mentioned, we cannot scale Kinetic Energy feats from high relativistic speeds without a specific given value, and we were simply told that being hit by the Flash at those speeds is simply like being struck by a star, not a star accelerated to near the speed of light. Regrettably, we can only gauge it by the somewhat vaguely defined statement.

 

[Antvasima]

Never mind, I found the larger version of the image.

I am uncertain how running through billions of years of time should be quantified? Certain DC Comics stories simply define it as running swifter than the speed of light.

I will ask DarkLK about it.

 

[Antvasima]

DarkLK has responded that the Flash can technically be considered to have immeasurable speed, but only via time travel. He is MFTL+ for practical combat purposes.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

DarkLK has responded that the Flash can technically be considered to have immeasurable speed, but only via time travel. He is MFTL+ for practical combat purposes.

Ah that's good, we got a good conclusion out from it.