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Fixing Post-Crisis Aquaman

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Dargoo_Faust

Dargoo_Faust

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Aquaman (Post-Crisis) is practically an incomplete profile.

So, I went through a respect thread, and here's what I have that's relevant.

AP/Striking Strength (Via Scaling): Solar System level (Should scale to Superman and other prominent members of the Justice League)

Scaling: Fights and injures Despero, Forces open a construct made by Kyle Rayner and socks him in the face, Slaps the shit out of Martian Manhunter, Beats up a monster with Superman's power, Knocks out and restrains Superboy

If scaling is not applicable:

Feats: Frequently makes tidal waves

Durability (Via Scaling) : Solar System level (Should scale to Superman and other prominent members of the Justice League)

Scaling: Tanks an attack from Starro, Takes a hit from Martian Manhunter As well as Wonder Woma

Speed: Massively FTL+ (Via Scaling) (Should scale to Superman and other prominent members of the Justice League)

Scaling: Dodged Superman's Heat Vision and Caught him as he was flying away, Avoided a point blank blast from Despero, Gets woke after flash runs on his law,

If scaling is not applicable:

Feats: Surprisingly has a lot of laser reactions and blocking feats.

Powers and Abilities

Missing Quite a bit.'

  • Animal Manipulation is obvious as living heck, I hope I don't need scans to prove that. He typically controls any form of sea-life.
  • He should honestly have Genius level intelligence just from this feat alone. Also Hacking to a light degree.
So yeah, IDK how strict we are on updating DC Profiles but I hope this is enough evidence to give me the greenlight on revising his profile.
 
Here's my opinions based on the scans provided

Strength

  • Despero seems okay (assuming you just like, ignore that sharks made him bleed)
  • The Superman-powers guy seems okay,
  • He stated that he needed to distract Kyle to escape the lantern construct so I don't think that counts
  • He didn't actually harm MMH in the first scan, in the second scan also doesn't imply that he harmed MMH, and in the third scan they didn't even fight really
  • Superboy seems good (though personally I don't think he should 4-B)
Durability

  • Starro looks fine
  • I don't see anything that states that MMH was using his full strength. Like most DC characters they usually hold back the majority of their strength. In the second scan they were not fighting but doing a drill so again he wasn't taking a full powered hit from MMH. Third scan seem okay assuming it isn't just a mental hallucination
  • For Wonder Woman she ragdolled him and knocked him out in one hit. I wouldn't say either make sense for scaling
Speed

  • Superman told Aquaman to step aside so that isn't a speed feat. The second scan also does not indicate that Superman was going that fast, especially since he rarely goes FTL in atmosphere to avoid collateral damage
  • Despero seems legit
  • The Flash thing doesn't seem like a speed feat really. If it is, then I don't see it being MFTL+. Flash rarely goes his full speed unless he really needs to
Powers

I don't disagree with anything here
 
Also it should be noted that every one of those "Guy with Superman's powers" scans came before he had unlocked his potential and before he got his Post-Doomsday amp. So he may not even be 4-B when that happened.
 
@Qawsedf Thank you for the feedback. I don't know much about DC Comics, and ripped most of this off of a respect thread, so I agree with what you said.

I'm not familiar with the powerscaling rules on DC/Marvel either so if Arthur scaling to 4-B makes no sense I can try and calc some more direct feats he scales to.
 
Imo, it'd probably be better to do some sort of joint tier for Aquaman. Like using 616 Hulk as an example

> At least Massively Hypersonic+ (Can jump into space), At most Massively FTL+ combat speed and reactions (He has consistently kept up with Thor, Gladiator, Hyperio, and Silver Surfer, though lacks quantifiable feats of his own that surpass even Mach 4,000)

He should probably have a calced rating then a "At most Solar System/MFTL+" rating.
 
I can agree to that. He has some pretty nifty feats outside of the scaling I can work around with.
 
I agree with what Qaws said. Scaling to 4-B doesnt seem very consistent for Aquaman. Otherwise this looks good.
 
I think that scaling Aquaman to Superman at least with his trident makes perfect sense specially when you look at various feats and statements of being one of the strongest heroes / strongest members of the Justice League in general.
 
The trident is magical in nature though, which is a large vulnerability for Superman since magic sharp things have a long history of being able to pierce his durability. Also statements don't mean a lot when he has consistent lower showings imo.
 
Not really, Superman can beat up Shazam pretty constantly, who is as strong as Superman but powered by magic. Magic is simply among the things which can break Superman's "Invulnerability", which is how DC describes his durability.
 
Shazam uses magic punches not a magic bladed weapon. There's not a single instance to my memory where Superman wasn't cut by a sharp magical artifact that has hit him.
 
Actually here's a comic book writer talking about the magic weakness. The Trident is a magical weapon that can also control water, so I believe it would fit under the "cut anything sword" example he gave.
 
Also Post-Flashpoint Aquaman is unquestionably in the same level as Superman and Wonder Woman.
 
> I would rather follow the actual comics than a writer on twitter

So do you have any examples where Superman isn't cut by a magical sharp thing
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
Feats
Click to expand...
  • Imperiex Probe is good but the explosions regurarly messed up or KO'ed Aquaman
  • Statement is just contradicted outright by the existence of multiple stronger Earth based people
  • Seems good but Amazo was having a mental breakdown at the time so it may not be legit
  • Wonder Woman was trying to calm him down, MMH was taken out by fire, and the other JL memebers present aren't 4-B
  • Legit as I said before
  • Also legit (if you ignore the 4-B sharks)
  • Seems legit
  • MMH, like Gladiator, is such a massive worf that I don't think he should be used as a scaling tool. Otherwise legit
  • Isn't thst New 52 MMH? Either way see above reasonings
  • Legit as said before
  • Punching someone once isn't much of a scale, especially when he recovers instantly. Or else we get things like 4-B Captain America
 
Yea that's n52 MMH and it wasn't a real fight.

Side Note: That feat seems to be used as justification on n52 Aqua's profile even though MMH mind is being overloaded by Atlantean impressions causing him to lose control of his body to the spirits and his power to fluxuate to the point he can't maintian his shape. Not a valid scaling feat.
 
I'm not the most educated guy on these matters but 4-C seems better for aquaman imo. Also i know it's not really the same thing but it seems kind of silly to bring up aquaman being hurt by sharks when wonder woman is regularly hurt by bullets and no one brings it up.
 
Please for the sake of all that's holy let this be accepted. Aquaman I always said should scale to the JL and never understood why it was never put here. He has WAY too many consistent feats.

(I know a few of these are already shown up here. I just was grabbed the feats I have for him on hand in a doc)

1. Fought Desparo both with his fish and him [[1]]

2. Practically on shots Olmpiyon [[2]] Who beat Martian Manhunter before [[3]]

3. Fights Martian Manhunter [[4]]

4. Hurt Titus who could survive attacks from Hal [[5]] [[6]]

5. Beats this monster after he absorbed supermans powe [[7]] [[8]]

6. Broken Yellow lantern ring constructs (as well as green latern ones) [[9]]

7. Knocked out superboy [[10]]

8. Survived a direct blast from Staro [[11]]

9. Takes a punch from MM and then responds with a punch that sends him to the floor [[12]]

10. Punches MM so hard, he comments that it almost could have sent him back to mars (even taking that comment as an exaggeration, it still impressed him) [[13]]

11. Sent an evil version of himself flying with a single stroke [[14]]

12. Takes a direct hit from Wonder women when she was pizsed and visibly showed no damage [[15]]

13. Took another direct hit from her when she didn't know who he was and mistook him for attacking her and was visibly ok [[16]]

14. Survived a direct point blank laser from MM [[17]]

15. Survived a minute of combat with Titus who had just nearly killed Superman with an attack [[18]] [[19]]

16. Dodges Desparos Lasers point blank [[20]]

17. Dodges Supermans lasers [[21]]

18. Caught Superman before he could fly away [[22]]

19. Stabs through Lobos Throat [[23]]

20. Stabbed through positrons armor (someone he also fought with) [[24]]

21. Fought with a lantern and even took their ring off. [[25]]

22. Can easily hold back superboy [[26]]

23. Pulled down Known Man with one arm who can match Superman [[27]] [[28]]

24. Throws something hard enough to stab through Desparo [[29]]

25. Damaged Ultra Man [[30]]

26. Fought and beat Gorrila Grodd [[31]]

27. Fought against OMACS [[32]]

28. One shot the trickster [[33]]


And there is two more feats I need to find where they were again. But while under water. Aquaman swims faster than superman can fly, and Flash could run.

His mind hacks are also Superior to Martian Manhunter shown many times 1. Here When he couldn't even read their minds [[34]]

2. Here when he reads MM mind without permission [[35]]

And at one point Martian Manhunters even admits he has the strongest mind he has ever seen

And another power is his own weaker version of the Spider sense [[36]] He can telepathic predict the where bullets were coming from to dodge them.

As well. Power Nulliifucation [[37]] Being able to nullify magic
 
I mentioned most of those before and decent amount of them have context to them or aren't really good for scaling. I think the idea of "At most 4-B" works much better than just 4-B considering how hard he fluxes and his inconsistent performances
 
Awesome list, Butter. I also don't know why Aquaman's sharks harming Despero is considered PIS since I think he can amplfy the strength of the animals he commands.

I think Aquaman being in-leugue with the rest of the JLA members is consistent in scaling, IDK in regards to feats, however.
 
I suppose that the feats that Qawsedf evaluated and accepted should be fine to use as a basis for 4-B..

The problem with post-Crisis Aquaman is that he is so inconsistent, given that Peter David's long comicbook run for the character did not portray him as anywhere close to 4-B feats-wise, as far as I remember.

It was first later that he was elevated to a comparable level to other DC powerhouses.

Perhaps two different statistics keys might be an idea?
 
Yeah, High 6-A would be the next best bet off of his tsunami feats as well as another form he gains where he can control all of the world's oceans, although some authors place him stiff far lower than that.

Ant does bring up a good point, perhaps his run under Peter David should be evaluated seperatly and placed into a different key.
 
I am personally fine with if somebody gives post-Crisis Aquaman an "At least ..., at most ..." tier.

We would need some feat to scale from though.
 
Lobo was extremely inconsistent and it has him "at his peak Solar System" Why not have it like that. It also would make a degree of sense considering their battle. They fought to a stand still.

Also. Isn't the fact his sharks and fish can injure Solar system tiers is because of Aquamans power. He had something that can amplify their power with something called "The blue". And since we know he can manipulate power in a sense to like with his water hand. It would make sense why these fish can injure these characters if he can manipulate their power into being stronger (Which also would give a little more consistency to the SS stuff cause if he could power up his fish to do that, logically he should be that strong to.)

And one bigger thing is he did Injure am evil him. And Aquaman seems to have a lot more in the durability area. Offering a bit more consistency

A few more things I pulled up Fear manipulation

IMG 4147
Here he planted waves of terror into supermans mind

Power increase via "The Blue"

Another thing "The Blue" offered was him being able to see everything across the sea and becomes one with it. As well able to see through the eyes of sea life

IMG 4150
Undead Manipulation (Can control zombie sea life. Unclear if it's all undead sea life however. His mind manipulation has worked on things other than sea life. But he has never controlled an undead species outside sea life)

IMG 4151
Ice manipulation (can conjure up ice)

IMG 4152
Lighting manipulation

IMG 4153
Weather manipulation

Matter manipulation (this one I'm not fully certain of due to the fact i haven't been able to locate the comic. But, it essentially is able to manipulate matter in this comic which Poseidon does in the comic at one point.)

IMG 4154
Early comics, only Aquaman and Tempest could hold it (Basically Mjolnir before it was cool)

Heat resistance (Survived multiple heat lasers from people like Martian Manhunter)

There was also something that could be for time travel. But I can't show any scans on that. But at one point he sent Atlantis 1000 years into the past. But I'll update on that if I can locate the original source to it.
 
We cannot mix the pre-Crisis and post-Crisis versions.

It is also important that we do not scale from out of context temporary power-ups or speculation.

Has it ever been explicitly stated that he can make the ocean life characters he controls stronger, or is it just an inconsistency in the writing?
 
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