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Fist of the North Star General CRT

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Antvasima said:
If you provide all of the visual evidence, I can ask somebody to calculate it, yes.
Click to expand...

To quote myself, @Twellas , and @Silvervigilant


Kaioh's matouki warps a bunch of clouds that were perfectly fine before:
This is consistent with other statements and showings, such as Juukei stating that if his matouki is let loose "a disaster of unmeasurable proportions will occur", Kaioh's aura being shown to tower over an entire town (it's not some sort of metaphor for Kaioh being evil, because this is shown to be the literal physical shape that the matouki takes) or a giant hole in the clouds materialising during his first fight with Ken.

Whatever the result is, it would scale to 100% pre-seals Ken, as he was able to tank numerous touki blasts from Kaioh with relatively small damage.


Kaioh can cover the entire sky in thick black clouds in a matter of a few frames (or completely warp every single cloud in the sky, depends on whether you use the anime or the manga, I guess the anime's feat is easier to quantify and calculate) and he's stated by Juukei, who lived through this, to be able to unleash "a disaster of immeasurable proportions".

This scene in the anime is even more absurd (Kaioh was heavily suppressed when he did this).
 
Eseseso said:
To quote myself, @Twellas , and @Silvervigilant


Kaioh's matouki warps a bunch of clouds that were perfectly fine before:
This is consistent with other statements and showings, such as Juukei stating that if his matouki is let loose "a disaster of unmeasurable proportions will occur", Kaioh's aura being shown to tower over an entire town (it's not some sort of metaphor for Kaioh being evil, because this is shown to be the literal physical shape that the matouki takes) or a giant hole in the clouds materialising during his first fight with Ken.

Whatever the result is, it would scale to 100% pre-seals Ken, as he was able to tank numerous touki blasts from Kaioh with relatively small damage.


Kaioh can cover the entire sky in thick black clouds in a matter of a few frames (or completely warp every single cloud in the sky, depends on whether you use the anime or the manga, I guess the anime's feat is easier to quantify and calculate) and he's stated by Juukei, who lived through this, to be able to unleash "a disaster of immeasurable proportions".

This scene in the anime is even more absurd (Kaioh was heavily suppressed when he did this).
Click to expand...

Thank you.

@DemonGodMitchAubin @Therefir @KieranH10 @Psychomaster35

Would any of you be willing to calculate this feat? Tell us here if you accept please.
 
Thank you. I appreciate it.

Can one of the calc group members that I called for evaluate Jasonsith's blog instead then please?
 
Eseseso said:
To quote myself, @Twellas , and @Silvervigilant


Kaioh's matouki warps a bunch of clouds that were perfectly fine before:
This is consistent with other statements and showings, such as Juukei stating that if his matouki is let loose "a disaster of unmeasurable proportions will occur", Kaioh's aura being shown to tower over an entire town (it's not some sort of metaphor for Kaioh being evil, because this is shown to be the literal physical shape that the matouki takes) or a giant hole in the clouds materialising during his first fight with Ken.

Whatever the result is, it would scale to 100% pre-seals Ken, as he was able to tank numerous touki blasts from Kaioh with relatively small damage.


Kaioh can cover the entire sky in thick black clouds in a matter of a few frames (or completely warp every single cloud in the sky, depends on whether you use the anime or the manga, I guess the anime's feat is easier to quantify and calculate) and he's stated by Juukei, who lived through this, to be able to unleash "a disaster of immeasurable proportions".

This scene in the anime is even more absurd (Kaioh was heavily suppressed when he did this).
Click to expand...

I'd say that the statement from Juukei is easily Multi-Continental, which should give a nice "hat" to the verse, since this scales only to Full-power Kaioh, to whom only the god tiers of the verse scale
 
On another note, I personally went and translated the "bunker" scan from the japanese raw, and the translation I got supports the idea of the guy refering to a direct impact, as the literal translation is something along the lines of "even a bomb would bounce off", not "blast"
 
On the note of the bunker scaling, I wouldn't use Ken as a way to scale the lower tiers to it, because suppressed post-seals Ken is arguably unquantifiably stronger than the full power Ken who fough Jagi, I'd scale everyone through the random goon who, from what we know, is nothing more than a roided-up human, who got smashed through it without taking any damage.
 
@Jasonsith Excellent calc, thank you!

Just curious, was this any sort of highball/lowball of sorts? Like, were there any possible speeds or cloud sizes that were higher/lower? Also, I did see that you put the speed at mach 58, when before you said in this CRT that the speed was Mach 116, which would make the calc 480 gigatons instead of 120.

And would Kaioh warping the clouds and making a hole in them be anywhere comparable to when he darkened the sky?

@Twellas I'm not so sure if that statement is Multi-Continent. I mean, I want it to be so and it's not impossible, but I'm personally iffy on that.
 
Eseseso said:
@Jasonsith Excellent calc, thank you!

Just curious, was this any sort of highball/lowball of sorts? Like, were there any possible speeds or cloud sizes that were higher/lower? Also, I did see that you put the speed at mach 58, when before you said in this CRT that the speed was Mach 116, which would make the calc 480 gigatons instead of 120.

And would Kaioh warping the clouds and making a hole in them be anywhere comparable to when he darkened the sky?

@Twellas I'm not so sure if that statement is Multi-Continent. I mean, I want it to be so and it's not impossible, but I'm personally iffy on that.
Click to expand...
It would make no sense for Juukei to refer to any form of disaster that's below what he has already seen with his own two eyes as "immeasurable", he lived first-hand through the blatantly multi-continental disaster that was the nuclear war, why would he ever refer to something that causes less destruction than that as "impossible to measure"? It would be like the president of the USA refering to a grenade as an "immeasurable explosion". And it's not like such a concept is out of left field, already early on it's stated that Hokuto users could cause the end of the world if left unchecked
 
Twellas said:
It would make no sense for Juukei to refer to any form of disaster that's below what he has already seen with his own two eyes as "immeasurable", he lived first-hand through the blatantly multi-continental disaster that was the nuclear war, why would he ever refer to something that causes less destruction than that as "impossible to measure"? It would be like the president of the USA refering to a grenade as an "immeasurable explosion". And it's not like such a concept is out of left field, already early on it's stated that Hokuto users could cause the end of the world if left unchecked
Click to expand...
Well perhaps if someone calculated the combined power of all the nukes instead of just 1, then maybe we could scale that value to Kaioh via Juukei's statement.
 
Eseseso said:
Well perhaps if someone calculated the combined power of all the nukes instead of just 1, then maybe we could scale that value to Kaioh via Juukei's statement.
Click to expand...
we have a pannel of the entire planet being wiped and a statement that "the earth cracked open" and "all oceans evaporated", this is more than enough to say that the nuclear war as a whole was High 6-A at the absolute least
 
Twellas said:
we have a pannel of the entire planet being wiped and a statement that "the earth cracked open" and "all oceans evaporated", this is more than enough to say that the nuclear war as a whole was High 6-A at the absolute least
Click to expand...
I'm sorry but do you have a link? Also, do we know that these are true and not just statements?
 
Falco also later remarks that every significant body of water is gone except the Sea of Death, so I guess there's that if you really want to get skeptical
 
Twellas said:
Falco also later remarks that every significant body of water is gone except the Sea of Death, so I guess there's that if you really want to get skeptical
Click to expand...
Well assuming that the sea of death is the Sea of Japan, then boiling/vaporizing all the water in the world aside from the sea of Japan is basically the same as vaporizing all of the world's water: 829 petatons.
 
Eseseso said:
Also, I found this very interesting blog about scaling in FOTNS: https://character-stats-and-profile...blog:Unbacked0/Fist_of_the_North_Star_scaling
Click to expand...
eehhh, it's mostly ok, but it falls in the typical misconception of diseased Toki being physically weaker, which is demonstrably not true, all the disease did was tank his stamina, which is effectively a death sentence in a verse where the average jab is designed to blow up your bones from the inside out.
Later on Toki IS physically weakened tho, but that's most likely due to him pressing his sekkakko pressure points
 
Twellas said:
It would make no sense for Juukei to refer to any form of disaster that's below what he has already seen with his own two eyes as "immeasurable", he lived first-hand through the blatantly multi-continental disaster that was the nuclear war, why would he ever refer to something that causes less destruction than that as "impossible to measure"? It would be like the president of the USA refering to a grenade as an "immeasurable explosion". And it's not like such a concept is out of left field, already early on it's stated that Hokuto users could cause the end of the world if left unchecked
Click to expand...
I also went and translated the japanese raw for the scan where Ryuken states that the world will end, and the actual literal translation is "the world will perish", with the definition of perish being "to die in a violent or sudden way", so we know he's refering to a quick destruction rather than the user just taking over the world or something like that
 
The ocean vaporisation (where the Hokuto Ryuken is hypothesised to be capable of) should have had a rating already in somewhere else. This should justify whatever the upper limits of Hokuto Ryuken stands at.
 
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Jasonsith said:
The ocean vaporisation (where the Hokuto Ryuken is hypothesised to be capable of) should have had a rating already in somewhere else. This should justify whatever the upper limits of Hokuto Ryuken stands at.
Click to expand...
The ocean's vaporisation is just one of the disasters caused by the nuclear war above which Kaioh would scale, the planet was also "cracked open" and completely surface wiped
 
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EliminatorVenom and Jasonsith:

Thank you for the replies. So what should we do here exactly?
 
Should we discuss if Kaioh scales to boiling the oceans and cracking the Earth by Juukei's statement?
 
I also think that the god tiers in HNK should be Multi-Continental, i mean a guy like Jagi has a Small Country level to Country level feat, and Jagi is an absolute fodder to EOS Kenshiro. We also have the Multi-Continental statement from Juukei, and Koketsu's bunker scaling above the nukes in HNK verse (is also worth noting that, in almost every piece of HNK media, the Nukes | can been | seen | from the space)

There's people that already put Kenshiro in the Multi-Continental range
 
The problem i have with scaling videos and whatnot is that they mostly forget that Ken has stupid rage-amps that might give him a boost even superior to Tenry Kokyu oh
 
Can somebody remind me about the reasons for the Multi-Continent level upgrades that you wish to apply?
 
@Silvervigilant

About that wordpress link...Yeah I once agreed with that but now I disagree with a lot of it since he uses Kenshiro's speed in kinetic energy calcs. Also his multipliers of power and speed are very...off, to say the least.

The things I do agree with (or could consider) are:

1. Him throwing that rock giving him higher lifting strength based on the force needed to toss it at that speed.

2. That waterfall feat (maybe), since the size of the waterfall he used comes from here, so someone would need to check out that waterfall's size and how fast it moved.

3. Kasumi's Soryu Tenra calc (579.1 teratons), since the speed seems legit and it's seems just like a highball of the timeframe.
 
Antvasima said:
Can somebody remind me about the reasons for the Multi-Continent level upgrades that you wish to apply?
Click to expand...
Kaioh has a pretty blatant Multi-Continental statement, same with Ken, as it's stated very early on that if an evil man was to become successor he would destroy the world, the japanese term used for such statement (亡びる, horobiru) strictly refers to sudden and violent death, removing the possibility of the statement being about world domination or anything over time.
The only thing to kinda discuss is who scales to this, because the statement about Ken is from before he even got his scars, and pre-seals Ken scales to Kaioh's statement via tanking multiple matouki blasts
 
Can you list all of the evidence more in-depth please. We need to be able to make a convincing case to our wiki visitors.
 
That's pretty much it, I guess I can go more in-depth in explaining the stuff I've mentioned if you want, but other than that there aren't any other feats.
I guess Raoh's feat's calc has some Multi-Continental ends, but that's pretty much it
 
I mean, can you list all of the statements please?

Also, if we do not know for certain if it is hyperbole or not, all we can likely apply is "At least [current rating], possibly High 6-A".
 
Antvasima said:
I mean, can you list all of the statements please?
Click to expand...
It's stated that Kaioh's aura would cause a "disaster of immearsurable proportions", the person who states this lived through the complete destruction of the earth due to nuclear war. It would make absolutely no sense for him to refer to a disaster less destructive than what he has already lived through as "immeasurable". Why do I think it's not hyperbole? The idea of this disaster happening is the entire motivation behind Juukei's actions, also, he'd have no reason to highball Kaioh's power

It's stated (supposedly by Ryuken) that if an evil man were to inherit Hokuto Shinken the world would end. The actual literal translation of the japanese scan is "the world will perish", with the definition of "to perish" being "to die in a sudden or violent way". Why do I think it's not hyperbole? Ryuken is supposedly talking privately with Ken and there is absolutely no reason for him to use an hyperbole. Also, this destruction is the whole reason behind the method in which Hokuto is transmitted
 
Both of those statements are not enough on their own. Sorry. It is quite easy for somebody with a 6-B level of power to destroy the surface world quite quickly. We need more irrefutable evidence.
 
Antvasima said:
Both of those statements are not enough on their own. Sorry. It is quite easy for somebody with a 6-B level of power to destroy the surface world quite quickly. We need more irrefutable evidence.
Click to expand...
Well the Jukei statement, makes Kaioh scale above the nuclear destruction in HNK's world, and we know that the nuclear destruction vaporized all the water in the world aside from the sea of Japan, which is basically the same as vaporizing all of the world's water: 829 petatons

So this solidly puts the god tiers in the 6-A range
 
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