Fire Force Higher-Dimensional Existence Discussion/Possible Removal

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

What was me

I believe you against the HDE removal but is was probably a joke?

Honestly just seeing Deceived malding over a verse he probably coudn't care less about has made my day just a little bit better.

Disagreed for Speedsters reason btw, he made some real solid points

While @LephyrTheRevanchist was for the removal

poor Deceived man

But yeah, gotta agree the evidence used for HDE is simply not sufficient. We've rejected way more solid stuff for other verses.

Plus I don't think other staff members (who commented on this CRT) have seen the newer arguments, so it's kinda a deadlock here.

First witch input is irrelevant (in the sense of, he has no control over moderation), so not sure why are you counting it as a staff member vote.
You need to count the actual vote (@Duedate8898) because for some reason y'all want to ignore the opposing one.

The votes of retired and honorary staff members still holds some weight last time I checked but from what I can tell it was probably just friendly banter. @Duedate8898 was against the removal, I think?

Either way the CRT needs to be summarised.

EDiT: Ninja'ed!

 

[First_Witch]

I believe you against the HDE removal but is probably a joke?

It was, my guy. Like, did Speedster even argue in this thread?

 

[ImmortalDread]

The votes of retired and honorary staff members still holds some weight last time I checked but from what I can tell it was probably just friendly banter. @Duedate8898 was against the removal, I think?

Where is this stated?

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

It was, my guy. Like, did Speedster even argue in this thread?

The issue with that question, is that I risk going mad finding out the truth.

Where is this stated?

It's just an informal thing not set in stone, generally hardworking active regular users that turned down promotion and retired staff members with lots of Wiki experience/contributions do occasionally get a leg up.

 

[ImmortalDread]

I never heard of it, so this is invalid.

 

[First_Witch]

I never heard of it, so this is invalid.

Its actually true though. Ant and other Staff member will take retired/honorary Staff Members opinion into account so long they retired out of good will (People Ant would give their status back if they just ask him)

It just dosnt come up often anymore, because most people who qualify are basically gone (There is a reason why they retired). I technically used to qualify as well, but after all those years of me dropping any form of qualification, probably not so much anymore.

You can ask big boss himself if you want confirmation

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

I never heard of it, so this is invalid.

This is pretty much the same energy as a tree falling in the forest and questioning if it made a noise if no-one was around to hear it.

But yeah First Witch is right, you probably didn't hear of it since you weren't on the forum when it was more prevalent.

Anyway this is kinda derailing.

 

[Makai641001]

From the definitions I’ve found with the kanji it is in fact typically referring to higher dimensions in the mathematics sense.

Meaning of 高次元, こうじげん, koujigen | Japanese Dictionary | JLearn.net

The english translations and meanings for 高次元, こうじげん and koujigen are: high dimension,higher dimensions

jlearn.net

https://www.japandict.com/%E9%AB%98%E6%AC%A1%E5%85%83

Meaning of 高次元 in Japanese | RomajiDesu Japanese dictionary

高次元, 高次元, こうじげん, koujigen, meaning, definition, Japanese, English, Romaji

www.romajidesu.com

There’s also no reason to think it isn’t referring to “higher dimensions” in a mathematical sense when it’s literally referring to mathematics itself alongside higher dimensions, so the fact that the kanji uses “higher dimension” to mean that in a mathematically higher sense gives credence to the fact that both the ideas of “mathematics” and “higher dimensions” are encompassed alongside Adolla.

So yeah, I don’t know why in this case it wouldn’t be referring to higher dimensions mathematically given the context of the scene.

I’m just talking about pure translation without really looking at context.

Ko Jigen can be used for many things even in sports etc…
Saying it’s inherently a math related thing is just objectively wrong

Context could add precision to it but you shouldn’t just assume it’s maths related

 

[Arnoldstone18]

I’m just talking about pure translation without really looking at context.

Ko Jigen can be used for many things even in sports etc…
Saying it’s inherently a math related thing is just objectively wrong

Context could add precision to it but you shouldn’t just assume it’s maths related

Are you sure you actually understood the message you just replied.

Maitreya sent translations of the kanji by itself without context. There are literally links to the translations right there and yet you completely ignore them and type this.

The Kanji itself has multiple translations which dictate the word is inherently used in a mathematical sense. The context of the panel itself gives EXTRA credence to that fact.

If you insist on ignoring evidence and just sticking with your “trust me bro” argument nobody will take it seriously.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

HELL

Here is yet another translation of the kanji alone that literally dictate it is used in a mathematical sense.https://jisho.org/search/高次元

 

[ImmortalDread]

 

[Arnoldstone18]

How do you like that huh?

Want more??
Want more translations??

https://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/word/高次元/#jn-290884

high dimensionality . It usually refers to a higher dimension than the three dimensions of space , or the four dimensions plus one dimension of time .

 

[ImmortalDread]

I am agreeing wdym

 

[Arnoldstone18]

I am agreeing wdym

I want you to agree more baby!

here,

have another translation.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

https://www.weblio.jp/content/高次元

 

[Maitreya12]

Man’s scouring the whole internet for these definitions

 

[Alexander]

Man’s scouring the whole internet for these definitions

yeah

 

[Iiliminal]

 

[BadSystems]

The translation proof does go hard, but does this mean we need to talk about Tier 1 Fire Force?

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Yes.

 

[BadSystems]

A world where Shinra beats Goku is not a world I want to live in.
Switching to agree on HDE.

 

[Alexander]

A world where Shinra beats Goku is not a world I want to live in.

well,in youtube,reddit,quora and tik tok that is common at least.
now we can have all wikies where shinra beats goku

 

[PrinceofPein]

I left for some hours and the kids are dreaming again

@Maitreya which site is the raw gotten from? send the link. Since it is almost imposible to get FF raw scans. Let me check it out.

 

[The_Emperor4th]

You can check the raw on klm**ga website.

But I'm not sure if FF raw is there or not.

EDIT: yeah, it’s there, with 304 chapter

 

[PrinceofPein]

You can check the raw on klm**ga website.

But I'm not sure if FF raw is there or not.

EDIT: yeah, it’s there, with 304 chapter

the wiki censored your post i think
can you resend the site name but put a space between each letter

 

[BadSystems]

the wiki censored your post i think
can you resend the site name but put a space between each letter

I think the censored part is “an”, to form “manga”

 

[PrinceofPein]

No, I deliberately censored it.



pls don’t banned me for doing this :v

thanks I will go through it later
saved the link, you can delete it now

 

[LordGinSama]

We need a conclusion here already.

 

[Makai641001]

How do you like that huh?

Want more??
Want more translations??

https://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/word/高次元/#jn-290884

https://context.reverso.net/translation/japanese-english/高次元

Sorry if I expressed myself poorly I was just correcting the fact that it inherently means Higher dimension maths wise.

It can be but it’s not always the case.

Basically I’m just talking purely about how Kou Jigen can be used in Japanese not really how it is used in context I barely remember the plot of FF.

Sorry

 

[Makai641001]

https://www.weblio.jp/content/高次元

This link kinda show all the different possibilities I talked about.

 

[Lynieryz]

[Low 1-C] Agree FRA

 

[Deceived3596]

This thread has been derailed into complete goonery smdh.

I'll create a summary of everything later, because this thread is cancer and needs to be closed.

 

[Arkenis]

The translation proof does go hard, but does this mean we need to talk about Tier 1 Fire Force?

4 years too late

 

[Firestorm808]

Before I go any further, do we have confirmation of the original Japanese text of the OP scans?

 

[Arnoldstone18]

https://context.reverso.net/translation/japanese-english/高次元

Sorry if I expressed myself poorly I was just correcting the fact that it inherently means Higher dimension maths wise.

It can be but it’s not always the case.

Basically I’m just talking purely about how Kou Jigen can be used in Japanese not really how it is used in context I barely remember the plot of FF.

Sorry

Bro even if it can but not always the case, the context of the scan points it to being the case

Also the translation link you sent is also a heavily mathematical in nature. There are literal mathematicians who study topological dimensional manifolds in one of the examples. Most of the examples in that link also discuses dimensional mathematical concepts. Iirc from my shitty knowledge in math, compact manifolds consists of a circle (1-D) a sphere (2-D) a usual torus, (3-D), then toruses and other mathematical bullshit that represent higher dimensional manifolds (4-D,5-D…etc.)

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Before I go any further, do we have confirmation of the original Japanese text of the OP scans?

Yes @Maitreya and I have provided more than enough evidence that the kanji used in the raw suggest that Adolla is a mathematically higher dimension.

https://vsbattles.com/threads/fire-...scussion-possible-removal.152859/post-5704519


https://vsbattles.com/threads/fire-...scussion-possible-removal.152859/post-5704893


https://vsbattles.com/threads/fire-...scussion-possible-removal.152859/post-5704925

And so on

 

[Arkenis]

Yes @Maitreya and I have provided more than enough evidence that the kanji used in the raw suggest that Adolla is a mathematically higher dimension.

https://vsbattles.com/threads/fire-...scussion-possible-removal.152859/post-5704519


https://vsbattles.com/threads/fire-...scussion-possible-removal.152859/post-5704893


https://vsbattles.com/threads/fire-...scussion-possible-removal.152859/post-5704925

And so on

doesn't seem sufficient, may need more.

 

[Deceived3596]

Here's a relatively short, sweet and lazy summary which addresses everything that's going on in this thread currently.

Here's the OP which explains my intentions and here are multiple after posts of mind which explains those intentions in more depth.

The general gist of these messages is that we either need to remove HDE from the profiles for possible inconsistencies with Low 1-C in the verse, or upgrade everyone who's currently 2-C to Low 1-C since their 2-C scaling is contingent on Adolla, if Adolla's a 5-D dimension, with it having a qualitatively superior existence over the 4-D dimension of the main Fire Force universe, then the manipulation of that dimension would be a 5-D/Low 1-C feat, similarly how it's currently considered to be a 2-C level feat in conjunction with the main Fire Force universe.

Duedate has expressed disagreement with this logic in a multitude of posts.

The general gist of these messages, in my observation, is that Duedate believes Adolla's existence can be 5-D but wouldn't necessarily impact the current 2-C scaling that verse's God-Tiers since HDE within itself doesn't grant a tier of physical power that's equative to the level of existence that HDE provides.

While this is generally true, Duedate is, in my opinion, misunderstanding how HDE, in function, interacts differently with dimensions in comparison to physical entities, when examined under the context of stat scaling. If a dimension has HDE, because it's 5-D in existence, then manipulating that dimension with pure power, or abilities which scale to one's physical stats, would be a 5-D/Low 1-C feat. Simple as.

I'm not arguing that since something has HDE, it necessarily scales to that level of dimensionality in power. What i'm arguing is that since Adolla's considered a 5-D dimension, and the current 2-C scaling is contingent on the manipulation of Adolla, alongside the main Fire Force universe, then it necessarily follows that manipulating that 5-D dimension with an ability that's considered applicable to one's stats, would cause that entities stats to be 5-D/Low 1-C.

Here's Maitreya's post in regards to why HDE should stay, everyone can read it themselves, i'm not going to give my opinion on it.

There's also the main post of Pain on why HDE should go, and her response to Maitreya's post, like with Maitreya's post, i'm not going to give my opinion on both post.

There, that's basically everything of note going on in this thread, hopefully this helps the process of evaluation for the mods who might comment on this thread.

 

[Makai641001]

Bro even if it can but not always the case, the context of the scan points it to being the case

Do you read what I say ?

Also the translation link you sent is also a heavily mathematical in nature. There are literal mathematicians who study topological dimensional manifolds in one of the examples. Most of the examples in that link also discuses dimensional mathematical concepts. Iirc from my shitty knowledge in math, compact manifolds consists of a circle (1-D) a sphere (2-D) a usual torus, (3-D), then toruses and other mathematical bullshit that represent higher dimensional manifolds (4-D,5-D…etc.)

Yes it can be.

In the context too it could be.

What I was saying was that it’s NOT ALWAYS TRANSLATED LIKE THIS which has been confirmed by your sources.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Do you read what I say ?

yeah

Yes it can be.

In the context too it could be.

should*

What I was saying was that it’s NOT ALWAYS TRANSLATED LIKE THIS which has been confirmed by your sources.

The only other way to use a clear word like this is figuratively which clearly isn’t the case here and it’s barely, if at all, in any of my sources. Heck, point out sources that you claim confirms what you believe?