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FIRE FORCE GOD TIERS AND HIGH TIERS AP THREAD

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Chrome said:
All of that is durability tho he didn’t land a single hit and doppel beni comments on how weak he is showing he wasn’t trying. Kurono throughout the fight is complaining about the power difference between them. When getting rid of kurono he prepares an attack that’ll destroy the city yet against the actual benimaru he states he can’t use any half assed attacks and proceeds to actually try and threatens to destroy the entire planet. How during the events of all of that do you still come to the conclusion that kurono scales to this man?
Click to expand...

We need a staff input on this counter argument to one of the things in the OP. Knowledgeable members most preferred although it seems more logic based that anyone can handle.

That will be all I think.

Edit; Also death shouldn’t have a speed of light rating due to being featless.
 
I am afraid that more well-structured explanations are necessary.
 
Antvasima said:
Okay. If somebody writes easy to understand exolanations regarding what our staff need to evaluate here, I can call for a few of them afterwards.
Click to expand...
Basically the OP needs evaluation Everything12 already replied but gave no direct statement
But sure the OP needs to be evaluated
 
Arnoldstone18 said:
Also if you want an “improvement”

everyone should get one more key with their respective AP and a Far higher rating.

Chapter 303 or 304 said something like

“everyone is already crazy strong and now they’re even stronger”

highlighting that even Captain Obi is who was powerless is now multicontinental (I’m joking but you get the point )

even Goatmaru

but they lose their pyrokinesis ofcourse
Click to expand...
They are featless in that key there is no need for a key in which there is no feat
Which is why we have soul eater
Arnoldstone18 said:
Kurono shouldn’t scale to Benimaru because he has only shown durability feats from a casual Benimaru.
Click to expand...
You really don’t know the difference between AP, striking strength and durability
Arnoldstone18 said:
Death shouldn’t have a speed of light rating because he’s featless.
Click to expand...
It was going to be either unknown or a possibly rating


Practically all the OP needs staff input
 
Pain_to12 said:
You really don’t know the difference between AP, striking strength and durability
Click to expand...
I do, I gave other reasons too. But it ignored, someone else gave reasons too but went ignored so I just need staff input on the issue

whatever they think is the right call. So be it.


Pain_to12 said:
It was going to be either unknown or a possibly rating
Click to expand...
it should be unknown, I don’t think there is anything suggesting a possible rating but like I said if staff is cool, sure.


Pain_to12 said:
They are fearless in that key there is no need for a key in which there is no feat
Click to expand...
A “higher” rating should suffice. They don’t need have any feats if they all got stronger.

I only said they needed a key because they don’t have pyrokinesis anymore. They could probably have soul manipulation etc. etc.

If accepted, whatever format agreed upon is cool
 
Arnoldstone18 said:
I do, I gave other reasons too. But it ignored, someone else gave reasons too but went ignored so I just need staff input on the issue
Click to expand...
Except I already linked the thread where it was accepted that Kurono should scale and explained so many times here already even though it is something that is already accepted by 5 staff members.

Anyway It’s not my fault you feel like he should not scale.
It’s something that is accepted already and a clash between two people = you scale. Kurono clashed with Beni2 twice. That’s a striking strength feat
It’s not that hard tbh
Now drop it and make a CRT of your own if you feel like you don’t like it
 
Pain_to12 said:
Except I already linked the thread where it was accepted that Kurono should scale and explained so many times here already even though it is something that is already accepted by 5 staff members.
Click to expand...
Listen Pain in that thread this Kurono scaling was disagreed upon within the first page and not tackled much or brought or focused on in the second page. From what I remember over five people disagreed with it and all argued something similar to what I and what others here also brought up. I don't know why you think durability scales to ap when from what I've seen numerous times is that we scanle striking strength to durability not the other way around. And please stop bringing up staff members as if that makes your argument have more to it when over 7 people disagreed with you.
 
 
Pain_to12 said:
Except I already linked the thread where it was accepted that Kurono should scale and explained so many times here already even though it is something that is already accepted by 5 staff members.
Click to expand...
I insisted because this is another crt and they may change their minds.

if they don’t given that new arguments has been presented then cool.


Pain_to12 said:
Anyway It’s not my fault you feel like he should not scale.
It’s something that is accepted already and a clash between two people = you scale. Kurono clashed with Beni2 twice. That’s a striking strength feat
It’s not that hard tbh
Now drop it and make a CRT of your own if you feel like you don’t like it
Click to expand...

No one is against the fact that they clash is a striking strength feat. I’m even saying the weapons themselves get the 5-B rating. But you can’t ignore the manner of the clash.

Dopplemaru was casual and straight-up bullied Kurono. He only got serious in his fight against true Benimaru and got one shot.


Well, that's my take. No need to reply to this if you're just going to disagree. I'm honestly quite tired at this point.
 
Arkenis said:
Listen Pain in that thread this Kurono scaling was disagreed upon within the first page and not tackled much or brought or focused on in the second page. From what I remember over five people disagreed with it and all argued something similar to what I and what others here also brought up. I don't know why you think durability scales to ap when from what I've seen numerous times is that we scanle striking strength to durability not the other way around. And please stop bringing up staff members as if that makes your argument have more to it when over 7 people disagreed with you.
Click to expand...
Arkenis said:
Here are disagreements with the Kurono scaling
https://vsbattles.com/threads/fire-force-scaling-thread-and-other-miscellaneous.134695/post-4649866
https://vsbattles.com/threads/fire-force-scaling-thread-and-other-miscellaneous.134695/post-4649979
https://vsbattles.com/threads/fire-force-scaling-thread-and-other-miscellaneous.134695/post-4649996
https://vsbattles.com/threads/fire-force-scaling-thread-and-other-miscellaneous.134695/post-4650878
https://vsbattles.com/threads/fire-force-scaling-thread-and-other-miscellaneous.134695/post-4650944
Click to expand...
And each and everyone of their arguments have been shown to be wrong as the thread was later accepted and Everything was agreed upon
Is like saying the thread to upgrade naruto characters to 5-C was not accepted cause there were disagreements
nice logik
You take hits and clash with a 5-B you scale it’s not rocket science

Btw Beni2 has two feats
1. Scaling far above Faerie
2. His own nichirin.
Now let’s use feat 1 alone.
If kurono was anything less than 5-B he won’t be able to clash with a 5-B twice. In fact if he was 5-C, any hit from Beni no matter how casual(which are not, since he pulled out la chops against him) will turn him into a puddle of blood and flesh.
But you ignored the context totally like you can’t read, Beni disabled his pyrokinetic abilities which means he is defenseless and can’t attack and still took tons of attack from him
Idk what you are ON but that shit scales.

Now if you don’t agree like I said you know how to make CRT
 
Arnoldstone18 said:
I insisted because this is another crt and they may change their minds.

if they don’t given that new arguments has been presented then cool.




No one is against the fact that they clash is a striking strength feat. I’m even saying the weapons themselves get the 5-B rating. But you can’t ignore the manner of the clash.

Dopplemaru was casual and straight-up bullied Kurono. He only got serious in his fight against true Benimaru and got one shot.


Well, that's my take. No need to reply to this if you're just going to disagree. I'm honestly quite tired at this point.
Click to expand...
Yes you don’t agree with something already accepted, make a CRT
 
Pain_to12 said:
Good cause that’s my goal too

I think it’s a valid point.
Now this is how you disagree by bringing valid points

Anyway yes he lost to a Beni that the cataclysm was on-going not a pre-cataclysm Beni and that was like the last pillar or second to the last . The entire thing is they became that strong as soon as the cataclysm started look at Dragon and Arthur or Maki and Hinamawa.
Also Beni fought Hibachi a while and finally one-shot when he went all out but uses a finger to cut his Doppelgänger through and considered him trash.
Hibachi would still scale above his doppelgänger, so hibachi is not scaling to Benimaru but scaling to the fact that he could at least hold his own better than the doppelgänger that was sliced through with a single finger.


Also yes I know about the blog I was the one who requested for it to be made on life_of_king wall. The only person that is affecting is the real joker.
Click to expand...
You have to be trolling to say hibachi>dopple beni💀benimaru wasn’t trying the entire fight against hibachi he just wanted to give him the best send off he could and become recognized by him. He even asked for permission to kill him. Doppelgänger beni is the thoughts and absolute trust that the asakusa folks have in benimaru as the strongest, the same benimaru they watched body hibachi. Even the narrative pushes the fight as the battle between the strongest. Hibachi’s fight lasted as long as it did for plot purpose and character development for benimaru while his fight against his doppelgänger was meant to show how incomprehensibly strong he truly is.
 
Chrome said:
You have to be trolling to say hibachi>dopple beni💀benimaru wasn’t trying the entire fight against hibachi he just wanted to give him the best send off he could and become recognized by him. He even asked for permission to kill him. Doppelgänger beni is the thoughts and absolute trust that the asakusa folks have in benimaru as the strongest, the same benimaru they watched body hibachi. Even the narrative pushes the fight as the battle between the strongest. Hibachi’s fight lasted as long as it did for plot purpose and character development for benimaru while his fight against his doppelgänger was meant to show how incomprehensibly strong he truly is.
Click to expand...
Like I said no one cares about your arguments from your inability to believe.
Like all I care about is what was shown. Lol we have Benimaru getting serious against Hibachi but destroyed his doppelgänger with a finger.
And the same way they cannot understand Beni power level depth hence produced a weak doppelgänger so the argument of the doppelgänger is supposedly to be the strongest won’t work.
Lol look at his feats and tell me this feats packs less power than using a finger
One (used la-chop) lol that’s a power move >>>>> one shorting someone with a finger
Two
Three
Four (two of them running around in the sky clashing)
Five (knocked Beni back)
Six (Beni attacked he deflected it towards the city, does Beni look like he is having fun??)
Seven (Beni even used burning sun against him, how tf is that weaker than a single finger?)
Eight (see how hard Beni hit him)
Nine
Ten
Eleven
Twelve (does Beni look like he is not serious here?)
Thirteen (does he look like he is holding back here? And could have killed Hibachi with a finger like he did his own doppelgänger?)
Fourteen
Fifteen
Sixteen (look at Benimaru calling him tough and stronger than when he died)
Seventeen (Does this look like Beni is holding back?)
Eighteen , Nineteen ,
Twenty (Lai chop form five)
Twenty one ( does this look like holding back?)
Twenty two (does Benimaru having bruises all over, look like holding back?)

There are many more but basically Benimaru had to use his nichirin in the end and go all out to kill his old man and also show him how much more powerful he is now.

So you want to compare that fight up above to this two panel fight?
Here
One
Two
It took a single moment.



I can’t believe you said the Hibachi fight is just for plot that’s got to be the worst excuse
If the plot portrayed Hibachi way stronger than Benimaru doppelgänger, the wiki pages should do the same.

And there is no proof that Hibachi is weaker than Beni2, no one knows how strong Hibachi was all that everyone knows was that like Benimaru he was also once called the strongest throughout Asakusa and he was the one who trained Benimaru and made him as strong as that. So is it so unbelievable he is also that strong?

I am sick of incredulous people and arguments from incredulity.
Please and please stop.
 
Pain_to12 said:
Like I said no one cares about your arguments from your inability to believe.
Like all I care about is what was shown. Lol we have Benimaru getting serious against Hibachi but destroyed his doppelgänger with a finger.
And the same way they cannot understand Beni power level depth hence produced a weak doppelgänger so the argument of the doppelgänger is supposedly to be the strongest won’t work.
Lol look at his feats and tell me this feats packs less power than using a finger
One (used la-chop) lol that’s a power move >>>>> one shorting someone with a finger
Two
Three
Four (two of them running around in the sky clashing)
Five (knocked Beni back)
Six (Beni attacked he deflected it towards the city, does Beni look like he is having fun??)
Seven (Beni even used burning sun against him, how tf is that weaker than a single finger?)
Eight (see how hard Beni hit him)
Nine
Ten
Eleven
Twelve (does Beni look like he is not serious here?)
Thirteen (does he look like he is holding back here? And could have killed Hibachi with a finger like he did his own doppelgänger?)
Fourteen
Fifteen
Sixteen (look at Benimaru calling him tough and stronger than when he died)
Seventeen (Does this look like Beni is holding back?)
Eighteen , Nineteen ,
Twenty (Lai chop form five)
Twenty one ( does this look like holding back?)
Twenty two (does Benimaru having bruises all over, look like holding back?)

There are many more but basically Benimaru had to use his nichirin in the end and go all out to kill his old man and also show him how much more powerful he is now.

So you want to compare that fight up above to this two panel fight?
Here
One
Two
It took a single moment.



I can’t believe you said the Hibachi fight is just for plot that’s got to be the worst excuse
If the plot portrayed Hibachi way stronger than Benimaru doppelgänger, the wiki pages should do the same.

And there is no proof that Hibachi is weaker than Beni2, no one knows how strong Hibachi was all that everyone knows was that like Benimaru he was also once called the strongest throughout Asakusa and he was the one who trained Benimaru and made him as strong as that. So is it so unbelievable he is also that strong?

I am sick of incredulous people and arguments from incredulity.
Please and please stop.
Click to expand...
So much filibustering it’s not even funny, you didn’t even respond to any of my points you just repeated your view that I already responded to once again. Benimaru never was stated to get serious so that’s your head canon and he used a nichirin because that’s a part of the qualifications to become an asakusa hikeshi which once again was the whole point of the fight, showing his master how he can perform a nichirin. Ignoring the narrative to fit your argument is another flaw in your assessment as if that was the case benimaru would’ve started way earlier with a strong enough attack if he didn’t need to clear his resolve. Just because benimaru beat him faster doesn’t make him weaker💀that’s the worst argument you’ve mad thus far. Also that nichirin you’re hyping up that one shot hibachi? Yeah did you forget dopple beni called that a cheap trick? Then he proceeded to make one surrounding the planet while hibachi’s surrounded himself. Cmon now
 
Chrome said:
So much filibustering it’s not even funny, you didn’t even respond to any of my points you just repeated your view that I already responded to once again. Benimaru never was stated to get serious so that’s your head canon and he used a nichirin because that’s a part of the qualifications to become an asakusa hikeshi which once again was the whole point of the fight, showing his master how he can perform a nichirin. Ignoring the narrative to fit your argument is another flaw in your assessment as if that was the case benimaru would’ve started way earlier with a strong enough attack if he didn’t need to clear his resolve. Just because benimaru beat him faster doesn’t make him weaker💀that’s the worst argument you’ve mad thus far. Also that nichirin you’re hyping up that one shot hibachi? Yeah did you forget dopple beni called that a cheap trick? Then he proceeded to make one surrounding the planet while hibachi’s surrounded himself. Cmon now
Click to expand...
I cannot even
You missed the entire points like Shinra missed Raffles II
Anyway good luck to you
 
We have three staff approvals which is more than enough to pass the thread
But I will wait till weekend since I want damage, KT and Mitch to comment
 
Pain_to12 said:
We have three staff approvals which is more than enough to pass the thread
But I will wait till weekend since I want damage, KT and Mitch to comment
Click to expand...
Okay. No problem.

Who is the third staff member who approved this besides UchihaSlayer and Maverick?
 
Aha. Then it is probably fine to apply, but we should wait a while for Mitch and other staff members who know the series well, yes.
 
Pain_to12 said:
LIFTING STRENGTH SCALING
CLASS P

Everyone knows this feat already, Maki was certain she could handle the mass of earth's moon
so only Maki would scale to this feat and no one else. but I think HInamawa should get a 'possibly' rating since he was supposed to be the one deflecting the moon.

CLASS Z

Who scales to this?
Final cataclysm Shinra gets a "Class Z" and all high tiers and God tiers gets a "At least Class P, Possibly Class Z" rating or in my opinion no rating to the class Z feat at all. But I will let you guys decide

CLASS Y
vsbattles.fandom.com

Force Fire

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com

Who scales to this? Just Faerie, SBM and Death/God
I see absolutely no reason for anyone else to scale to it.
And "But there are people who are way stronger than Faerie",
"But Sho could one shot Faerie"
"What about Benimaru, he is stated to be the peak of Humanity"
"What about Dragon? Faerie thought it was impossible for him to lose"

All these are not arguments for LS, they are AP arguments. If you have any other argument apart from what I said above, please do drop them. but make sure it is valid.



NOW FOR AP

This feat here
1. 5-B
vsbattles.fandom.com

Fire Force Madness Moon

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com

2. 5-B
Benimaru's Doppelganger Nichirin.

Who scales?

1. Joker (gets a "At least 5-C, possibly 5-B" rating - He is thought to be stronger than he actually is. while his doppelganger key gets a solid 5-B, way stronger than the Joker everyone sees)

Doppelganger key

2. Captain burns


3. Dragon

4. Faerie

5. Arthur

6. Benimaru (His doppelganger key gets just “5-B” while he gets, "At least 5-B, Possibly far higher)

7. Hibachi shinmon (he gets "At least 5-B” since he could fight a serious Benimaru)

8. Kurono ("5-B”)

9. Sho (At least 5-B)

10. Shinra (At least 5-B) SBM gets (At-least 5-B, likely far higher)

SBM


11. Haumea (At least 5-B), for her Evangelist key (At least 5-B, likely far higher)

12. God (either "Unknown" or "At least 5-B, likely far higher" reasons? he has no AP feat so he either scales above everyone else or gets an Unknown rating since he is actually unknown)



SISTER IRIS
she can provide buffs that could tank hits from Dragon
the buff to protect everyone from the shockwaves from Shinra's kick at light speed
Range, tens of kilometers, she could cover the whole Tokyo
So she should get a 5-C durability in her profile, while her AP will be unknown

SPEED FEATS
I could not find any solid feat for anyone in the last chapters except shinra and Raffles II


Well I dont think everyone will be far below Shinra SOL kicks or rel+ speed anymore or an ordinary infernal
So I think they should all scale to Rel+, but if there is any reason why anyone think they should not, please let me know.
Death and SBM gets a solid SOL rating tho

That will be all, thank you for reading
Click to expand...
This all looks good to me
 
LIFE_OF_KING said:
Then

Is the thing about Maki bearing the weight of the earth still being debated?
Click to expand...
Nope
The thing is she can bear that of the moon not the earth
But please your calc will also help🤔
I think the moon was calculated to Be falling at rel speeds
 
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