Fire Force Cosmology Blog Acceptance Thread!

[Maitreya12]

Hello everyone.

I have recently completed the final adjustments on the Fire Force and Soul Eater cosmology blog, and this thread will serve in hopes to get the blog formally accepted.

Fire Force Cosmology blog

vsbattles.fandom.com

Note: The specific tier of 2-C are accepted in this thread and reaffirmed once more in this thread as well. I also had this cosmology blog checked out with @KLOL506 who also voiced their agreement towards the blog meeting the necessary criteria for the Low Multiversal Tier. If there does happen to be further contention towards the blog that can be known here.

But this thread is primarily for the purposes of getting the cosmology blog accepted for the tiers currently agreed upon. Thank you very much.

 

[Deceived3596]

 

[CloverDragon03]

Looks fine to me

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

I agree

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Duhh

 

[Arkenis]

Hello everyone.

I have recently completed the final adjustments on the Fire Force and Soul Eater cosmology blog, and this thread will serve in hopes to get the blog formally accepted.

Fire Force Cosmology blog

vsbattles.fandom.com

Note: The specific tier of 2-C are accepted in this thread and reaffirmed once more in this thread as well. I also had this cosmology blog checked out with @KLOL506 who also voiced their agreement towards the blog meeting the necessary criteria for the Low Multiversal Tier. If there does happen to be further contention towards the blog that can be known here.

But this thread is primarily for the purposes of getting the cosmology blog accepted for the tiers currently agreed upon. Thank you very much.

for the references at the bottom of the blog you can put them in a box with this "{{scroll box|content={{reflist|2}}}}"

 

[ObberGobb]

I agree

 

[Alexander]

there is one link that is broken(is not there)is the link of the will of the universe,but i know what chapter is,is 176.
obviosly i agree

 

[Dalesean027]

Agree here as well, I've already looked over this blog several times from its creation

 

[Excellence616]

Make Sense, i agree

 

[Cyberblader90]

ill comment soon

 

[RandomGuy2345]

I vehemently disagree.

Fire Force is only 5-B at best.

 

[PrinceofPein]

This entire section is filled with so many inflated languages I was getting annoyed as I was reading it, also it paraphrases the scans to mean what they are not saying. So for anyone who wishes to evaluate, do not take the wordings for it and open the scans itself and see for yer self.
That said, Adolla is a separate dimensions from the real world, that is not the dispute, the dispute is that there are points in adolla and real world sapce and time that are in both. Moving on,

The size of Adolla and the Main Universe:​

I would like to clarify the sizes of both the Adolla's world as well as the main universe to get a baseline understanding of each world.

• The main universe is described as being a "boundless cosmos." Boundless in this context to mean "unbounded" or "never ending," indicating an infinitely sized main universe. And as a result, Adolla merges with an infinitely sized universe.

Oh wow this is the scan "A sea of twinkling stars, the intense battle between the dragon and knight continues in the boundless cosmos"
Really? aside from the fact that this is literally flowery, Arthur and Dragon are fighting around the moon, is the distance from earth to moon a boundless cosmos?

• Adolla and the Kishin have been described as an "innumerable" space with countless flames and

The scan again "A black land and innumerable scattered flames" so stop paraphrasing the words, it is not innumerable space but rather innumerable flames

• has been directly stated to be "infinite" and "endless" multiple other times as well. Note that because Adolla and the Kishin embody the very concepts of "madness" and "fear," those concepts being described as being infinite in size, this would in turn directly correlate to the size of the Kishin/Adolla due to them encompassing and embodying such concepts within themselves.

Again the scan "Kishin's sama madness does not end, it is infinite, as abundant as water,............ kishin sama madness is endless, as infinite as your desire to see my naked body"
Aside from the fact that the bolded statements invalidates the stuff, in this context they were saying no matter what happens you will fall into madness in the end. and literally nothing about adolla size.
That said I do believe the universe is universal in size as that is just simple logic, but this scans are just simply reaching for something not there and nonsense to say the least

The disconnection between the Adolla World and The Real World:​

Here it is going to be outlined and proven how the Adolla world is explicitly said to be completely disconnected from the main universe:

• You cannot reach the Adolla world from the main universe. It is another dimension entirely and is made abundantly clear cannot be physically traveled to from the main universe. And does not exist in the main universe.

Of course adolla is a different dimension from the real world

• Adolla is a reality of pure thoughts and perceptions. It is not "real" in any sense as it is totally imaginary. It has even been described as a "dream reality." Making it more so disconnected from the main universe as the Adolla world is totally "imaginary" while the main universe is actually "real." Showcasing how no interaction can be made between the two worlds prior to the merger

Well aside from the fact that adolla physically exist and you can enter there physically, do you need scans or list of people who were there before the merger?
Like this is just dishonest you said no interaction can be made before the merger, that is a lie, as people could enter/interact with it before the merger.
That said, you cannot eat your cake and have it, if adolla is not real, you cannot get a physical tier for it.

Note: All interactions between the main universe and Adolla such as the "tear in space" forming between the two worlds,

the tear in space exists before the merge, that is a map of the continent. and it has at least two tears in space according to that map, and each leads to Adolla. this is literally after the last cataclysm and before the current one, also literally stated here. The fact that there are tear(s) in space in the earth which connects adolla to the world, also means they are not separate space-times

and the traveling into Adolla through the main world have all only occurred when Adolla has already been merged and linked with the world and thus does not meet any disqualifying criteria for these spaces to be disconnected from one another.

Surprisingly you forgot the elephant in the room
Shinra took an attack for Juggernaught which knocked him out and he somehow ended up in the Adolla plane with Inca
Shinra asked Inca what the Great Cataclysm is or how it will end, she replied that she does not know then, Inca mentioned that his super-light speed thing allows him to see the past, so he should travel back into the past to see what exactly happened during the last great cataclysm. Then she said "You will use your super light speed to fly into the past".
Shinra then traveled into the past, Where he saw the world or I should say Tokyo before the Great cataclysm on earth. Also the author also gave us a view of how earth 250 years ago looked like so he was obviously on earth 250 years ago.
So shinra time travelled when in the Adolla plane and ended up on earth from 250 years ago, which would not be possible if adolla and earth are in or different spacetimes, since you can obviously travel through their time and both is connected.

So yes this is a disqualifying criteria that meets lots of disqualifying points, Traveling with no portal, time travel e.t.c.

The Universe's Relationship with space-time:​

Instead of typing out a lengthy response here I can simply have the manga explain in full the relationship between the Universe and time.

this is simply a universal law for any universe

As the universe expands, time flows. It is a 1:1 direct relationship between space and time. An effect on the universe's "space" and "expansion," has a direct, causal effect on time throughout the universe. It's a "space-time" in the literal sense that they are both on the same axis. Of the universe being a 4 dimensional space-time structure, affecting that universe's space will inherently affect the universe's time in tandem.

this is what a universe is, FF is not a special. Also time and space are on the same grid and not axis.

This relationship impacts the Adolla plane as well due to the fact that this ability of affecting "space" and "time" through the universe's expansion is done through the linkage of the Adolla plane manipulating such concepts through their embodiment of the very "universe" itself. The world of ideas Adolla encompassing the very conceptual structure of a 4D universe's space-time is completely different than the physical nature of said universe's space-time.

Your own very scan debunks this, it says "sho is stopping time by messing with the heat of the universe hence the expansion of it"
So while you can say Adolla contains concepts from the human world which is true, this is gibberish and inflated asf "The world of ideas Adolla encompassing the very conceptual structure of a 4D universe's space-time is completely different than the physical nature of said universe's space-time." Also if adolla does not exist physically, you cannot give it a physical tier hence your tier 2 falls appart.

Adolla carrying the time and History of all humanity:​

This section is used to establish how Adolla's embodiment over the idea of mankind's history is a fundamental distinction to the space-time of the real world.

• Adolla as noted above does not just embody all ideas humans have thought up of, but also encompasses the very history of mankind which in turn help make up Adolla as well. This time and history of humanity help make an image of despair within Adolla, and this image made from the history humanity's consciousness has left over in Adolla merges with the present world creating the black flames which envelop the planet. This conceptual nature of time in Adolla creating a distinct real life image of the world showcases the differences between the present of the physical universe's space-time continuum, and the idea of "time" making up a distinct, separate image within Adolla's own space-time.

The temporal time of the main universe's past, present, and future inherently differs to the conceptual nature of time and history that the perception world of Adolla carries within it. While the same x, y, and z point in time may be present within each plane due to the events of the real world matching up to the idea of events humanity perceives, they would still each be spatio-temporally separated from one another due to the fundamental distinction between the physical 4-D axis' of the real universe, and the perceived, conceptual nature of the very idea of "the universe" and its 4-Dimensional space-time structure.

A little something, the universe has 3-Dimensional physical axis and not 4.
So from this long post that you made complicated, filled with inflated languages, you are saying that going back in time in adolla will take you to the world the human thought of and not the real world? you could have added that to it directly.
Anyway, the manga disagrees with you. 250 years ago, the humans wanted the world to be like that of a manga style, meaning if Shinra traveled back in time 250 years and ended up inside adolla, he should be in a world where all the humans have the manga art style, but well obviously he ended up in the real world. and Also stated directly to be "the world of the past", "the earth from 250 years ago" and not what you are claiming, which it will be "the world of perception of the past" e.t.c.
That said, reason why If two universes have points in their time and space that exist in both, are considered to be parts of a single space-time, rather than separate space-times. This is because space-time is a four-dimensional continuum that encompasses all of the physical reality we experience, including matter, energy, and the curvature of space itself.
According to the theory of relativity, events that occur in space-time can be considered as a single entity called an "event." Each event is characterized by its time and location in space. If two events occur at the same time and location in different universes, they are considered to be the same event in the context of the entire space-time. This is because space-time is continuous and interconnected, and events that occur in one part of space-time can have effects on events that occur in another part of space-time.
Therefore, if two universes have points in their time and space that exist in both, they cannot be considered separate space-times. They are, in fact, part of a single space-time that includes both universes. This implies that the boundaries between different universes are not fixed, and that there is a continuous flow of matter, energy, and information between them.
They are still two different universes but they share the same coordinate system, let me explain better

In mathematics, space-time is often represented using a four-dimensional coordinate system, where the three dimensions represent the spatial coordinates (x, y, z) and the fourth dimension represents time (t).
If we consider two universes, we can represent them as two distinct regions within this four-dimensional space-time. Let's call these regions Universe 1 and Universe 2.
Now, suppose there is a point (x1, y1, z1, t1) in Universe 1 and a point (x2, y2, z2, t2) in Universe 2 that have the same spatial and temporal coordinates. In other words, they occupy the same point in space and time.
These two points cannot be considered as separate points in space-time, because they represent the same physical event. Mathematically, we can represent this as follows:
(x1, y1, z1, t1) = (x2, y2, z2, t2)
This equation shows that the two points are equivalent and are part of the same space-time.
Therefore, if there are points that exist in both universes, they cannot be considered as separate space-times, because they are part of a single, interconnected space-time.
Since I am going for homerun, I will explain further
we can represent space-time as a manifold, which is a topological space that is locally Euclidean. In other words, at any given point in space-time, we can use a coordinate system to assign numerical values to the spatial and temporal dimensions.
The four dimensions of space-time are represented using what is known as a Minkowski space, which is a special kind of mathematical space used in the theory of relativity. The coordinates in Minkowski space are represented as (x, y, z, ct), where c is the speed of light and t is time.
When we say that two universes have points in their time and space that exist in both, we are saying that there are points in the Minkowski space that correspond to events in both universes. These points have the same spatial and temporal coordinates in both universes.
For example, let's say that in Universe 1, there is an event that occurs at position (x1, y1, z1) and time t1. In Universe 2, there is another event that occurs at the same position and time. This means that there is a point in the Minkowski space that corresponds to both events, and its coordinates are (x1, y1, z1, ct1).
Because this point corresponds to events in both universes, it cannot be considered as part of either universe alone. Rather, it is part of a larger space-time that includes both universes.
In summary, the reason why two universes with points in their time and space that exist in both cannot be considered as separate space-times is because they are part of the same four-dimensional manifold, and points in the manifold that correspond to events in both universes must be considered as part of the same space-time. So as long as there is the proof of them sharing the same past, they are inside the same space-time no matter what, so enough of the BSing to say the least, you have no idea about what you are saying here and you do not understand what you are saying here, just some beautiful words here and there thats all which I blame @Deceived3596 for since I have seen this post before from him, but like I already said they have points that exists in both hence they are not spatio-temporally seaprate, which is the requirement for tier 2 now.

This distinction is noted and even qualifies as an exception in the drafted space-time format page seen here. Qualifying the Adolla world as a separate space-time from the real world.

Point out the qualification please, you only linked the page

Now let me read out the tiering to you
FAQ

First, note that in our terms a universe, and hence also space-time continuums and timelines, always includes all of the three dimensional space that can be reached from it. That is to say, any place that can theoretically be reached via regular three-dimensional movement alone (e.g. via spaceflight) would be considered as part of the same universe, and hence timeline, regardless of whether the fiction considers it as such.

Check the bolded part
Now it expanded more on that

Per default universes are assumed to have separate three-dimensional spaces, but should a piece of fiction demonstrate the opposite, destruction of several timelines connected in such a way would only be Low 2-C (Universe level+).

Second, is the case of timelines that at certain points are connected. Contrary to the case where one can always travel from one universe to the other via three-dimensional movement, it is only possible in those at certain times. In fact, at certain points in time they might be the same universe. E.g. if a timeline branches into two, then the timelines were the same universe before the branch split happened. Other way around, if two timelines get merged into one, then they are the same universe only after they were fused.
In those cases, the destruction of any one timeline is only counted if it was not connected to any other timeline for an infinite amount of time. Otherwise, if there are several timelines none of which are separate for an infinite amount of time, they would all be counted as just one timeline for the purpose of Tiering their destruction or creation.

Check the bolded part again, it says if they are not separate for infinite time, they will be counted as one.
So even if Fire force world and Adolla was considered separate, the fact that they are not separate for infinite time means they will be counted as just one.
Also unless the merge is happening across all of time it is tier 3, it will be a single moment in time merge. If it was a merge that happened across all of time, then the world of 250 years ago would look manga like, when shinra travelled back which was not so, meaning it is a moment in time merge, and not across the entire space-time continuum, which means not tier 2.

From the space-time page draft

Time Travel:When considering "dimensions" or "universes", it is important to keep in mind that time travel should not be possible between them. Interfering with the time in one timeline should not have an effect on another timeline, as this would indicate a lack of separation.

Fire Force fails woefully at this, with shinra's feat

It is widely acknowledged that the existence of a dimensional wall serves as a delimiter between various dimensions. However, it is important to note that the presence of this barrier does not necessarily indicate a complete spatio-temporal separation between the dimensions in question, as defined by not occupying any points in time and space. Instead, the presence of this dividing wall simply serves to distinguish between the dimensions, even if they share a common time axis. Without the presence of this wall, the dimensions would be indistinguishable and would no longer be considered separate.

To explain some sort of dimensional wall does not mean, they are separate space-times.

It should be noted that variations in the flow of time, such as faster or slower rates, do not necessarily indicate the existence of separate universes or space-time continuums.

Self- explnatory, in case anyone wants to bring up shinra's doppleganger scenario
So to summarise all this point, two universes are spatial-temporally separate, if you cannot physically travel from one point in the universe A into another universe B, also if you cannot time travel from one to another and if there are no points in A or B that are in both.

Shinra took an attack for Juggernaught which knocked him out and he somehow ended up in the Adolla plane with Inca
Shinra asked Inca what the Great Cataclysm is or how it will end, she replied that she does not know then, Inca mentioned that his super-light speed thing allows him to see the past, so he should travel back into the past to see what exactly happened during the last great cataclysm. Then she said "You will use your super light speed to fly into the past".
Shinra then traveled into the past, Where he saw the world or I should say Tokyo before the Great cataclysm on earth. Also the author also gave us a view of how earth 250 years ago looked like so he was obviously on earth 250 years ago.
So shinra time travelled when in the Adolla plane and ended up on earth from 250 years ago, which would not be possible if adolla and earth are in or different spacetimes, since you can obviously travel through their time and both is connected.

Also your point about tear(s) in space and what I sent on it kind of proves that they are not separate further
In summary they are not separated spatio-temporally
Also so no one strawmanns my argument, no one is saying they are not separate dimensions, they are, but the argument is there are points in time and space of the world and adolla that exists in both and that is undeniable, so this is not tier 2. So any argument should be that there is no point in the world and adolla that are in both, that is my argument.

[ISPOILER]I should add, by default you cannot tap/use or tank a tier 2 power while remaining below it, If adolla is tier 2, anyone who uses it becomes tier 2, literally BOS characters also become tier 2. To make it easier to understand if you claim adolla is tier 2, in tier 2 no matter how much you divide tier 2, it will not be below tier 2, even if you divide it infinite times, it will still be tier 2, so there is no such thing as using tier 2 power behind an attack while the attack remains tier 7. Anything powered by adolla becomes tier 2 no matter how small it is. So it is not just those who fully scale to adolla, but those who uses adolla too and those who scales who should become tier 2

 

[Dalesean027]

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Sending my prayers to anyone who's responding to that.

This is why I don't get involved in cosmology bullshit.

 

[Alexander]

This entire section is filled with so many inflated languages I was getting annoyed as I was reading it, also it paraphrases the scans to mean what they are not saying. So for anyone who wishes to evaluate, do not take the wordings for it and open the scans itself and see for yer self.
That said, Adolla is a separate dimensions from the real world, that is not the dispute, the dispute is that there are points in adolla and real world sapce and time that are in both. Moving on,

Oh wow this is the scan "A sea of twinkling stars, the intense battle between the dragon and knight continues in the boundless cosmos"
Really? aside from the fact that this is literally flowery, Arthur and Dragon are fighting around the moon, is the distance from earth to moon a boundless cosmos?

The scan again "A black land and innumerable scattered flames" so stop paraphrasing the words, it is not innumerable space but rather innumerable flames

Again the scan "Kishin's sama madness does not end, it is infinite, as abundant as water,............ kishin sama madness is endless, as infinite as your desire to see my naked body"
Aside from the fact that the bolded statements invalidates the stuff, in this context they were saying no matter what happens you will fall into madness in the end. and literally nothing about adolla size.
That said I do believe the universe is universal in size as that is just simple logic, but this scans are just simply reaching for something not there and nonsense to say the least

Of course adolla is a different dimension from the real world

Well aside from the fact that adolla physically exist and you can enter there physically, do you need scans or list of people who were there before the merger?
Like this is just dishonest you said no interaction can be made before the merger, that is a lie, as people could enter/interact with it before the merger.
That said, you cannot eat your cake and have it, if adolla is not real, you cannot get a physical tier for it.

the tear in space exists before the merge, that is a map of the continent. and it has at least two tears in space according to that map, and each leads to Adolla. this is literally after the last cataclysm and before the current one, also literally stated here. The fact that there are tear(s) in space in the earth which connects adolla to the world, also means they are not separate space-times

Surprisingly you forgot the elephant in the room
Shinra took an attack for Juggernaught which knocked him out and he somehow ended up in the Adolla plane with Inca
Shinra asked Inca what the Great Cataclysm is or how it will end, she replied that she does not know then, Inca mentioned that his super-light speed thing allows him to see the past, so he should travel back into the past to see what exactly happened during the last great cataclysm. Then she said "You will use your super light speed to fly into the past".
Shinra then traveled into the past, Where he saw the world or I should say Tokyo before the Great cataclysm on earth. Also the author also gave us a view of how earth 250 years ago looked like so he was obviously on earth 250 years ago.
So shinra time travelled when in the Adolla plane and ended up on earth from 250 years ago, which would not be possible if adolla and earth are in or different spacetimes, since you can obviously travel through their time and both is connected.

So yes this is a disqualifying criteria that meets lots of disqualifying points, Traveling with no portal, time travel e.t.c.

this is simply a universal law for any universe

this is what a universe is, FF is not a special. Also time and space are on the same grid and not axis.

Your own very scan debunks this, it says "sho is stopping time by messing with the heat of the universe hence the expansion of it"
So while you can say Adolla contains concepts from the human world which is true, this is gibberish and inflated asf "The world of ideas Adolla encompassing the very conceptual structure of a 4D universe's space-time is completely different than the physical nature of said universe's space-time." Also if adolla does not exist physically, you cannot give it a physical tier hence your tier 2 falls appart.

A little something, the universe has 3-Dimensional physical axis and not 4.
So from this long post that you made complicated, filled with inflated languages, you are saying that going back in time in adolla will take you to the world the human thought of and not the real world? you could have added that to it directly.
Anyway, the manga disagrees with you. 250 years ago, the humans wanted the world to be like that of a manga style, meaning if Shinra traveled back in time 250 years and ended up inside adolla, he should be in a world where all the humans have the manga art style, but well obviously he ended up in the real world. and Also stated directly to be "the world of the past", "the earth from 250 years ago" and not what you are claiming, which it will be "the world of perception of the past" e.t.c.
That said, reason why If two universes have points in their time and space that exist in both, are considered to be parts of a single space-time, rather than separate space-times. This is because space-time is a four-dimensional continuum that encompasses all of the physical reality we experience, including matter, energy, and the curvature of space itself.
According to the theory of relativity, events that occur in space-time can be considered as a single entity called an "event." Each event is characterized by its time and location in space. If two events occur at the same time and location in different universes, they are considered to be the same event in the context of the entire space-time. This is because space-time is continuous and interconnected, and events that occur in one part of space-time can have effects on events that occur in another part of space-time.
Therefore, if two universes have points in their time and space that exist in both, they cannot be considered separate space-times. They are, in fact, part of a single space-time that includes both universes. This implies that the boundaries between different universes are not fixed, and that there is a continuous flow of matter, energy, and information between them.
They are still two different universes but they share the same coordinate system, let me explain better

In mathematics, space-time is often represented using a four-dimensional coordinate system, where the three dimensions represent the spatial coordinates (x, y, z) and the fourth dimension represents time (t).
If we consider two universes, we can represent them as two distinct regions within this four-dimensional space-time. Let's call these regions Universe 1 and Universe 2.
Now, suppose there is a point (x1, y1, z1, t1) in Universe 1 and a point (x2, y2, z2, t2) in Universe 2 that have the same spatial and temporal coordinates. In other words, they occupy the same point in space and time.
These two points cannot be considered as separate points in space-time, because they represent the same physical event. Mathematically, we can represent this as follows:
(x1, y1, z1, t1) = (x2, y2, z2, t2)
This equation shows that the two points are equivalent and are part of the same space-time.
Therefore, if there are points that exist in both universes, they cannot be considered as separate space-times, because they are part of a single, interconnected space-time.
Since I am going for homerun, I will explain further
we can represent space-time as a manifold, which is a topological space that is locally Euclidean. In other words, at any given point in space-time, we can use a coordinate system to assign numerical values to the spatial and temporal dimensions.
The four dimensions of space-time are represented using what is known as a Minkowski space, which is a special kind of mathematical space used in the theory of relativity. The coordinates in Minkowski space are represented as (x, y, z, ct), where c is the speed of light and t is time.
When we say that two universes have points in their time and space that exist in both, we are saying that there are points in the Minkowski space that correspond to events in both universes. These points have the same spatial and temporal coordinates in both universes.
For example, let's say that in Universe 1, there is an event that occurs at position (x1, y1, z1) and time t1. In Universe 2, there is another event that occurs at the same position and time. This means that there is a point in the Minkowski space that corresponds to both events, and its coordinates are (x1, y1, z1, ct1).
Because this point corresponds to events in both universes, it cannot be considered as part of either universe alone. Rather, it is part of a larger space-time that includes both universes.
In summary, the reason why two universes with points in their time and space that exist in both cannot be considered as separate space-times is because they are part of the same four-dimensional manifold, and points in the manifold that correspond to events in both universes must be considered as part of the same space-time. So as long as there is the proof of them sharing the same past, they are inside the same space-time no matter what, so enough of the BSing to say the least, you have no idea about what you are saying here and you do not understand what you are saying here, just some beautiful words here and there thats all which I blame @Deceived3596 for since I have seen this post before from him, but like I already said they have points that exists in both hence they are not spatio-temporally seaprate, which is the requirement for tier 2 now.

Point out the qualification please, you only linked the page

Now let me read out the tiering to you
FAQ

Check the bolded part
Now it expanded more on that

Check the bolded part again, it says if they are not separate for infinite time, they will be counted as one.
So even if Fire force world and Adolla was considered separate, the fact that they are not separate for infinite time means they will be counted as just one.
Also unless the merge is happening across all of time it is tier 3, it will be a single moment in time merge. If it was a merge that happened across all of time, then the world of 250 years ago would look manga like, when shinra travelled back which was not so, meaning it is a moment in time merge, and not across the entire space-time continuum, which means not tier 2.

From the space-time page draft

Fire Force fails woefully at this, with shinra's feat

To explain some sort of dimensional wall does not mean, they are separate space-times.

Self- explnatory, in case anyone wants to bring up shinra's doppleganger scenario
So to summarise all this point, two universes are spatial-temporally separate, if you cannot physically travel from one point in the universe A into another universe B, also if you cannot time travel from one to another and if there are no points in A or B that are in both.

Also your point about tear(s) in space and what I sent on it kind of proves that they are not separate further
In summary they are not separated spatio-temporally
Also so no one strawmanns my argument, no one is saying they are not separate dimensions, they are, but the argument is there are points in time and space of the world and adolla that exists in both and that is undeniable, so this is not tier 2. So any argument should be that there is no point in the world and adolla that are in both, that is my argument.

[ISPOILER]I should add, by default you cannot tap/use or tank a tier 2 power while remaining below it, If adolla is tier 2, anyone who uses it becomes tier 2, literally BOS characters also become tier 2. To make it easier to understand if you claim adolla is tier 2, in tier 2 no matter how much you divide tier 2, it will not be below tier 2, even if you divide it infinite times, it will still be tier 2, so there is no such thing as using tier 2 power behind an attack while the attack remains tier 7. Anything powered by adolla becomes tier 2 no matter how small it is. So it is not just those who fully scale to adolla, but those who uses adolla too and those who scales who should become tier 2

 

[KLOL506]

I've read the blog, and I wholeheartedly agree to the changes, and I believe they qualify for the new Tier 2 standards.

 

[Deceived3596]

Pain.... for the love of everything formulated your arguments better, stop posting needless bibles that're a chore to read through. It's annoying to anyone you're debating against and it's a lot less convincing rhetorically .

I'll address some of your arguments later because some of them are just bad, i can't even sugar coat it for you.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

The fact that the use of metaphors alongside clear direct statements being viewed altogether as flowery language is just dumb ngl.

 

[KLOL506]

@Planck69 @Theglassman12 @Maverick_Zero_X @Starter_Pack @LordGriffin1000 @DarkDragonMedeus @ImmortalDread @DemonGodMitchAubin @Emirp sumitpo @LordTracer @Lonkitt Would you be kind enough as to evaluate this thread?

 

[PrinceofPein]

Pain.... for the love of everything formulated your arguments better, stop posting needless bibles that're a chore to read through. It's annoying to anyone you're debating against and it's a lot less convincing rhetorically .

I'll address some of your arguments later because some of them are just bad, i can't even sugar coat it for you.

it is not bibles if they need to be read.
anyway, drop any argument you have, I may not have time to check it till maybe tomorrow or so, but I will check it

I believe they qualify for the new Tier 2 standards.

First, note that in our terms a universe, and hence also space-time continuums and timelines, always includes all of the three dimensional space that can be reached from it. That is to say, any place that can theoretically be reached via regular three-dimensional movement would be considered as part of the same universe, and hence timeline, regardless of whether the fiction considers it as such.

No they do not but well I am not surprised, since DT may be interested, I should call him too

 

[PrinceofPein]

@Planck69 @Theglassman12 @Maverick_Zero_X @Starter_Pack @LordGriffin1000 @DarkDragonMedeus @ImmortalDread @DemonGodMitchAubin @Emirp sumitpo @LordTracer Would you be kind enough as to evaluate this thread?

Call E12, G12, they are knowledgeable on tier 2 also

 

[Deceived3596]

Pain calling the 12 squad, we're doomed

 

[Lewis]

This entire section is filled with so many inflated languages I was getting annoyed as I was reading it, also it paraphrases the scans to mean what they are not saying. So for anyone who wishes to evaluate, do not take the wordings for it and open the scans itself and see for yer self.
That said, Adolla is a separate dimensions from the real world, that is not the dispute, the dispute is that there are points in adolla and real world sapce and time that are in both. Moving on,

Oh wow this is the scan "A sea of twinkling stars, the intense battle between the dragon and knight continues in the boundless cosmos"
Really? aside from the fact that this is literally flowery, Arthur and Dragon are fighting around the moon, is the distance from earth to moon a boundless cosmos?

The scan again "A black land and innumerable scattered flames" so stop paraphrasing the words, it is not innumerable space but rather innumerable flames

Again the scan "Kishin's sama madness does not end, it is infinite, as abundant as water,............ kishin sama madness is endless, as infinite as your desire to see my naked body"
Aside from the fact that the bolded statements invalidates the stuff, in this context they were saying no matter what happens you will fall into madness in the end. and literally nothing about adolla size.
That said I do believe the universe is universal in size as that is just simple logic, but this scans are just simply reaching for something not there and nonsense to say the least

Of course adolla is a different dimension from the real world

Well aside from the fact that adolla physically exist and you can enter there physically, do you need scans or list of people who were there before the merger?
Like this is just dishonest you said no interaction can be made before the merger, that is a lie, as people could enter/interact with it before the merger.
That said, you cannot eat your cake and have it, if adolla is not real, you cannot get a physical tier for it.

the tear in space exists before the merge, that is a map of the continent. and it has at least two tears in space according to that map, and each leads to Adolla. this is literally after the last cataclysm and before the current one, also literally stated here. The fact that there are tear(s) in space in the earth which connects adolla to the world, also means they are not separate space-times

Surprisingly you forgot the elephant in the room
Shinra took an attack for Juggernaught which knocked him out and he somehow ended up in the Adolla plane with Inca
Shinra asked Inca what the Great Cataclysm is or how it will end, she replied that she does not know then, Inca mentioned that his super-light speed thing allows him to see the past, so he should travel back into the past to see what exactly happened during the last great cataclysm. Then she said "You will use your super light speed to fly into the past".
Shinra then traveled into the past, Where he saw the world or I should say Tokyo before the Great cataclysm on earth. Also the author also gave us a view of how earth 250 years ago looked like so he was obviously on earth 250 years ago.
So shinra time travelled when in the Adolla plane and ended up on earth from 250 years ago, which would not be possible if adolla and earth are in or different spacetimes, since you can obviously travel through their time and both is connected.

So yes this is a disqualifying criteria that meets lots of disqualifying points, Traveling with no portal, time travel e.t.c.

this is simply a universal law for any universe

this is what a universe is, FF is not a special. Also time and space are on the same grid and not axis.

Your own very scan debunks this, it says "sho is stopping time by messing with the heat of the universe hence the expansion of it"
So while you can say Adolla contains concepts from the human world which is true, this is gibberish and inflated asf "The world of ideas Adolla encompassing the very conceptual structure of a 4D universe's space-time is completely different than the physical nature of said universe's space-time." Also if adolla does not exist physically, you cannot give it a physical tier hence your tier 2 falls appart.

A little something, the universe has 3-Dimensional physical axis and not 4.
So from this long post that you made complicated, filled with inflated languages, you are saying that going back in time in adolla will take you to the world the human thought of and not the real world? you could have added that to it directly.
Anyway, the manga disagrees with you. 250 years ago, the humans wanted the world to be like that of a manga style, meaning if Shinra traveled back in time 250 years and ended up inside adolla, he should be in a world where all the humans have the manga art style, but well obviously he ended up in the real world. and Also stated directly to be "the world of the past", "the earth from 250 years ago" and not what you are claiming, which it will be "the world of perception of the past" e.t.c.
That said, reason why If two universes have points in their time and space that exist in both, are considered to be parts of a single space-time, rather than separate space-times. This is because space-time is a four-dimensional continuum that encompasses all of the physical reality we experience, including matter, energy, and the curvature of space itself.
According to the theory of relativity, events that occur in space-time can be considered as a single entity called an "event." Each event is characterized by its time and location in space. If two events occur at the same time and location in different universes, they are considered to be the same event in the context of the entire space-time. This is because space-time is continuous and interconnected, and events that occur in one part of space-time can have effects on events that occur in another part of space-time.
Therefore, if two universes have points in their time and space that exist in both, they cannot be considered separate space-times. They are, in fact, part of a single space-time that includes both universes. This implies that the boundaries between different universes are not fixed, and that there is a continuous flow of matter, energy, and information between them.
They are still two different universes but they share the same coordinate system, let me explain better

In mathematics, space-time is often represented using a four-dimensional coordinate system, where the three dimensions represent the spatial coordinates (x, y, z) and the fourth dimension represents time (t).
If we consider two universes, we can represent them as two distinct regions within this four-dimensional space-time. Let's call these regions Universe 1 and Universe 2.
Now, suppose there is a point (x1, y1, z1, t1) in Universe 1 and a point (x2, y2, z2, t2) in Universe 2 that have the same spatial and temporal coordinates. In other words, they occupy the same point in space and time.
These two points cannot be considered as separate points in space-time, because they represent the same physical event. Mathematically, we can represent this as follows:
(x1, y1, z1, t1) = (x2, y2, z2, t2)
This equation shows that the two points are equivalent and are part of the same space-time.
Therefore, if there are points that exist in both universes, they cannot be considered as separate space-times, because they are part of a single, interconnected space-time.
Since I am going for homerun, I will explain further
we can represent space-time as a manifold, which is a topological space that is locally Euclidean. In other words, at any given point in space-time, we can use a coordinate system to assign numerical values to the spatial and temporal dimensions.
The four dimensions of space-time are represented using what is known as a Minkowski space, which is a special kind of mathematical space used in the theory of relativity. The coordinates in Minkowski space are represented as (x, y, z, ct), where c is the speed of light and t is time.
When we say that two universes have points in their time and space that exist in both, we are saying that there are points in the Minkowski space that correspond to events in both universes. These points have the same spatial and temporal coordinates in both universes.
For example, let's say that in Universe 1, there is an event that occurs at position (x1, y1, z1) and time t1. In Universe 2, there is another event that occurs at the same position and time. This means that there is a point in the Minkowski space that corresponds to both events, and its coordinates are (x1, y1, z1, ct1).
Because this point corresponds to events in both universes, it cannot be considered as part of either universe alone. Rather, it is part of a larger space-time that includes both universes.
In summary, the reason why two universes with points in their time and space that exist in both cannot be considered as separate space-times is because they are part of the same four-dimensional manifold, and points in the manifold that correspond to events in both universes must be considered as part of the same space-time. So as long as there is the proof of them sharing the same past, they are inside the same space-time no matter what, so enough of the BSing to say the least, you have no idea about what you are saying here and you do not understand what you are saying here, just some beautiful words here and there thats all which I blame @Deceived3596 for since I have seen this post before from him, but like I already said they have points that exists in both hence they are not spatio-temporally seaprate, which is the requirement for tier 2 now.

Point out the qualification please, you only linked the page

Now let me read out the tiering to you
FAQ

Check the bolded part
Now it expanded more on that

Check the bolded part again, it says if they are not separate for infinite time, they will be counted as one.
So even if Fire force world and Adolla was considered separate, the fact that they are not separate for infinite time means they will be counted as just one.
Also unless the merge is happening across all of time it is tier 3, it will be a single moment in time merge. If it was a merge that happened across all of time, then the world of 250 years ago would look manga like, when shinra travelled back which was not so, meaning it is a moment in time merge, and not across the entire space-time continuum, which means not tier 2.

From the space-time page draft

Fire Force fails woefully at this, with shinra's feat

To explain some sort of dimensional wall does not mean, they are separate space-times.

Self- explnatory, in case anyone wants to bring up shinra's doppleganger scenario
So to summarise all this point, two universes are spatial-temporally separate, if you cannot physically travel from one point in the universe A into another universe B, also if you cannot time travel from one to another and if there are no points in A or B that are in both.

Also your point about tear(s) in space and what I sent on it kind of proves that they are not separate further
In summary they are not separated spatio-temporally
Also so no one strawmanns my argument, no one is saying they are not separate dimensions, they are, but the argument is there are points in time and space of the world and adolla that exists in both and that is undeniable, so this is not tier 2. So any argument should be that there is no point in the world and adolla that are in both, that is my argument.

[ISPOILER]I should add, by default you cannot tap/use or tank a tier 2 power while remaining below it, If adolla is tier 2, anyone who uses it becomes tier 2, literally BOS characters also become tier 2. To make it easier to understand if you claim adolla is tier 2, in tier 2 no matter how much you divide tier 2, it will not be below tier 2, even if you divide it infinite times, it will still be tier 2, so there is no such thing as using tier 2 power behind an attack while the attack remains tier 7. Anything powered by adolla becomes tier 2 no matter how small it is. So it is not just those who fully scale to adolla, but those who uses adolla too and those who scales who should become tier 2

Sheeshhh

 

[KLOL506]

No they do not but well I am not surprised, since DT may be interested, I should call him too

I've not seen anything in the scans within the blog that remotely implies physical travel being possible between the two, but go off I suppose.

 

[KLOL506]

Call E12, G12, they are knowledgeable on tier 2 also

There's only one G12, glassman. He's already tagged.

@Everything12

 

[KLOL506]

Pain calling the 12 squad, we're doomed

Unfortunate that he doesn't realize that I've already tagged Glass too.

 

[Arkenis]

Woo lets gooo tier 2 (Only care about Asura scaling)

 

[Lewis]

I've traveled through Warp Gates by space wolf's fleet and I'm here to tell you the good news that shinra will be low1a soon.

 

[Alexander]

[ISPOILER]I should add, by default you cannot tap/use or tank a tier 2 power while remaining below it, If adolla is tier 2, anyone who uses it becomes tier 2, literally BOS characters also become tier 2. To make it easier to understand if you claim adolla is tier 2, in tier 2 no matter how much you divide tier 2, it will not be below tier 2, even if you divide it infinite times, it will still be tier 2, so there is no such thing as using tier 2 power behind an attack while the attack remains tier 7. Anything powered by adolla becomes tier 2 no matter how small it is. So it is not just those who fully scale to adolla, but those who uses adolla too and those who scales who should become tier 2

great,consistent with sho being able to tank the heat of the universe.

 

[PrinceofPein]

I've not seen anything in the scans within the blog that remotely implies physical travel being possible between the two, but go off I suppose.

Time travel should not be possible too.
Shinra physically went into the past.
Or that is not physical travel to you?
That is two breach of qualifications for it.
Since you said in the blog, I will take it that you have not read my reply, you should.


That said please you guys should not derail this unnecessarily

 

[Everything12]

If this blog isn't trying to upgrade, downgrade, or change anything. Instead simply being used to show the logic that has already been accepted and used in an easy-to-understand way. What actually needs to be accepted here?

 

[InfiniteDay]

Snip

 

[Everything12]

Let's not antagonize others, thank you very much.

 

[Dalesean027]

If this blog isn't trying to upgrade, downgrade, or change anything. Instead simply being used to show the logic that has already been accepted and used in an easy-to-understand way. What actually needs to be accepted here?

Pein is saying that by current cosmology standards everything thats accepted is basically unaccepted for 2-C and that the blog and previous cosmology needs to be discussed and downgraded but if this looks fine to you then nothing I suppose just confirmation that its all good

 

[KLOL506]

Time travel should not be possible too.
Shinra physically went into the past.
Or that is not physical travel to you?
That is two breach of qualifications for it.
Since you said in the blog, I will take it that you have not read my reply, you should.

I think the blog already addresses that part where Adolla had already done the merge, but @Maitreya, could you elaborate more on this part?

 

[PrinceofPein]

If this blog isn't trying to upgrade, downgrade, or change anything. Instead simply being used to show the logic that has already been accepted and used in an easy-to-understand way. What actually needs to be accepted here?

I made a thread for the removal of the tier 2 but the OP said it should be moved here that's why we are here.

I think the blog already addresses that part where Adolla had already done the merge, but @Maitreya, could you elaborate more on this part?

Nothing in the blog said adolla has done the merge when shinra traveling happened.
Read my post, the final part it is there.
The blog omitted it entirely

 

[LordGriffin1000]

I'm neutral, though I think it has enough. There are only a few things I'm not full solid with and that mainly is the whole ininite madness but again, I'm not a Fire Force/Soul Eater buff.

 

[Alexander]

I made a thread for the removal of the tier 2 but the OP said it should be moved here that's why we are here.

and you failed, because your arguments were that adolla shared the same space-time as the universe, but it was made clear that it was not haci, that adolla had nothing to do with the universe and that it was separate from it.

 

[Everything12]

Pein is saying that by current cosmology standards everything thats accepted is basically unaccepted for 2-C and that the blog and previous cosmology needs to be discussed and downgraded but if this looks fine to you then nothing I suppose just confirmation that its all good

They already have a downgrade thread for that, whether the already accepted standards change depends on how that thread goes. You don't need further affirmation here to stuff that is already accepted. As for the blog, it doesn't look aesthetically unpleasing or hard to read.

As for if it conveys it's point acceptable, as long as it doesn't pretend something that isn't accepted was, then it's more the people knowledgeable in the series to comment on if they think it includes everything accurately. Everything else has already been dealt with by staff accepting the upgrade in other threads.