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Fire Emblem: Three Houses CRT

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I'm actually iffy about making all Crest Stones about half the power of the Javelins of Light or Sothis based on the notion of Dark Sword of the Creator having two Crest Stones. I know that Sword was the reason he was stronger than normal, but a bunch of fodder Demonic Beasts actually being downscaled from that is iffy. Also, like many other Power Source things, there have been arguments that maybe it's better assumed if unity causes multiple stones causes skyrocketing. Similar to how Green Lanterns or Chaos Emeralds are treated.

But, one Crest Stone can at least cut a mountain in half, so there's still that.
 
Actually that feat comes from the SotC. Imo, with a few exceptions, Demonic beasts shouldn't scale to the Hero's Relics. Sure, they have a crest stone, but the weapon is actually what makes it strong in the first place, as seen with the Base Sword of the Creator. Heck, even one Hero's relic that was depowered due to a lack of a crest was considered a pretty big threat. I somewhat doubt Hero's Relics would be given the reputation for great power if it was only as strong as a Demonic Beast. (Which mind you, both Edelgard and Byleth can quite casually take on their own early game)
 
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Prime Sothis didn't even have a physical form and never could have even been targeted or interacted with. It even says "Heteromorphic Vessel" doing the feat, implying it's her in her body. Also, it mentions effecting the land, sky, and sea. So it appears be the entire world even beyond Fodlan.

Though, I kind of agree on Demonic Beasts part; surprised that got left out that Heroes Relics still have powers with or without Crest Stones.
 
I think it's very iffy to give Byleth High 6-A based on one feat his power source has, that is done through an ability they never show in-game
 
She always had a physical form. She just came to Fodlan from the middle of nowhere in space or something. Nemesis wouldn't have been able to kill her if she wasn't physical.
 
Nemesis killed a weakened Sothis, and she descended to Fodlan after she created the entire world. And she gave up her powers so she can live among humans. The flood would scale to Sothis' magic power which she can use for combat.
 
Actually, I don't think she created the world. All Rhea says is that she descended upon the continent, nothing about creating the world. (There are several "created the world" statements, but its probably a lie, since Rhea doesn't say this when she is confessing everything in VW. Aside from those statements, and some statements from Heroes, I don't think that there is any that actually confirm that she created the world.). And while she did change her form to live among humans, she did not give up her power to do so. Her changing her form is probably due to the fact that she probably had a dragon form or something.

I do agree that Sothis could potentially be High 6-A, but this would only scale to her in her prime, and no one else.
 
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I was on a hiatus for VS Debating for a month, but I will better answer this now since I might be too late...

No, that's just straight downplaying Sothis where the assumsion that her Prime is potentially High 6-A due many reasons. First, the fact that saying that the statements of "Sothis creation of the world" a lie due not being present on Rhea is not correct at all as Rhea only said that she would reveal the whole truth about Byleth's birth, not the truth about Sothis.
Rhea: Before I hear your answer, I shall fulfill the promise I made to you. You will know the truth about your identity... I will hold nothing back. I... created you.
Click to expand...
Second, Heroes, while is a spin off, it falls into the category of being canonical to the cosmology of Fire Emblem as a franchise and must be treated as serious statement surrounding the creation of Sothis. Not only that, but Heroes's library had a higher ammount of knowledge on the events that surrounds the games that is very reliable on a lore perspective.

Third, Sothis descended and therefore becoming weaker, the fact that she wanted to be with her creation lend her to sacrifice her prime, and even on her sinking the world feat is made on her weakened form. This isn't like her only statement about her not being on her prime, but that at her having a body gave her to need to sleep for recover all her wounds and regaining some of her powers being comparable to a sick Rhea tanking javelins or Byleth sleeping for 5 years and how even her no corporeal form can interact with Byleth on a different plane and with no one else.

The best for now is to treat High 6-A as a possibility (not a fact) for the likes of Byleth, Rhea, Nemesis while mantaining Prime Sothis as Unknown since there's many evidence that places Sothis as her prime.
 
Rhea only said that she would reveal the whole truth about Byleth's birth, not the truth about Sothis.

Actually, I was taking about VW, where she reveals the truth about Sothis, the Heroes Relics, herself, and Nemesis.

Second, Heroes, while is a spin off, it falls into the category of being canonical to the cosmology of Fire Emblem as a franchise and must be treated as serious statement surrounding the creation of Sothis.

I do agree that Heroes could be used as supporting evidence, but I don't think that it should be the main piece of evidence for anything really. Not saying that we are doing that, but just wanted to point it out.

Not only that, but Heroes's library had a higher ammount of knowledge on the events that surrounds the games that is very reliable on a lore perspective.

The thing is, they probably only had information about the legends, as its the most widespread information. It is shown that despite their knowledge on other worlds, their sources can be rather limited, as seen with Kris, where they didn't even know they existed since they chose to not be remembered in history. It wasn't until Lena told Sharena about them that they knew they existed. And with Kronya, where they didn't really know much about her, aside from her being from TWSITD. I doubt that they knew the truth about Sothis. Heck, this is even supported by the fact that they believe that Nemesis was granted the SotC and Crest of Flames by Sothis, and used it to battle against "wicked gods".

Third, Sothis descended and therefore becoming weaker, the fact that she wanted to be with her creation lend her to sacrifice her prime, and even on her sinking the world feat is made on her weakened form.

Just because she descended and changed her form to resemble a human's doesn't mean she was weakened, it could mean she just changed her appearance, nowhere does it imply she lost her power. Even if she was weakened, the Sothis we see in the game is even more weakened, as they don't even have most of their memories, have their original form, and probably forgot most of their powers. Therefore, it doesn't scale to anyone but Sothis in her prime.

The best for now is to treat High 6-A as a possibility (not a fact) for the likes of Byleth, Rhea, Nemesis while mantaining Prime Sothis as Unknown since there's many evidence that places Sothis as her prime.

As I have stated before, it should only scale to Prime Sothis (aka the one that preformed the High 6-A feat in the first place). The Sothis we see ingame is weakened for reasons listed above, there is absolutely no way she is in her prime during the events of the game. Nothing about Prime Sothis being some kind of non-corporeal spirit who gave up their power to live among humans.

Besides, there is a chance that the High 6-A feat didn't actually happen. Even if it did, there would be no way to accurately calculate it, since we don't have a timeframe.
 
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I don't agree with High 6-A either. Other than all of that, it is one feat in a verse whose showings otherwise barely reach tier 6.
 
The standard feat for flooding the Earth is 5.62 Exatons. Which is over a thousand times baseline High 6-A.

Actually, Heroes is generally reliable if the gods are the ones talking. It got Ashunera's lore exactly on point for instance. If it's some random human, sure, but Heroes version of Sothis has apparently created multiple timelines. Rhea wouldn't really lie about Sothis being a goddess or that she's the creator of Fodlan. She descended because she wanted to live among her creation on equal footing with them. The Ghost Sothis doesn't even fight let alone have a body, but Sothis merged Byleth is pretty much about as strong as the weakened Sothis that caused the Flood. Also, I recall it being said the Umbral Beast once matched the might of the Goddess.
 
The standard feat for flooding the Earth is 5.62 Exatons.

Alright, but there is still an issue with the fact that we don't know how much of the land Sothis actually sank, since it does state that there would still be land by the time the flood came around. Though I guess it can be used as a highball.

Actually, Heroes is generally reliable if the gods are the ones talking.

This is somewhat of a different case, as unlike other games, the legends in FE3H are pretty inaccurate. (if the example with Nemesis didn't make that obvious).

Sothis has apparently created multiple timelines.

Prior to creating this CRT, I actually looked around both in her Heroes and 3H script, but I don't recall anything remotely like this. The closest thing I could find to this was Sothis saying in Heroes:
"This world of yours is quite a sight. Was this one of my own creations, or... Ah. Never mind that last part." Wouldn't make sense if Sothis created Midgard.

She descended because she wanted to live among her creation on equal footing with them.

Yea, she wanted to live with them. Doesn't mean she has to give up her power to do so.

Sothis merged Byleth is pretty much about as strong as the weakened Sothis that caused the Flood.

Can't recall anything that implies this.

Also, I recall it being said the Umbral Beast once matched the might of the Goddess.

No, its said that they are equal in power to the children of the goddess, not the goddess.
 
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It would still be comparable to Yune and Ashunera's feat at the very least. Which still got 25 Petatons. Actually, Sothis having all of her powers would make her too strong for everyone else and thus everyone would fear her. And the Cindered Shadows library even described her as being "Omnipotent" before she descended to Fodlan. That word is an obvious hyperbole that should never be taken seriously, but this is still coming from a banned book that really had nothing to hide. It's safe consider her astronomically stronger before she descended to Fodlan.

Byleth matched Immaculate One in SS, who is stronger than base Seiros, who slew the original Nemesis. And SS Immaculate One and Byleth were generally agreed to be the two god tiers talking with DragonMasterxyz.
 
Not only that but even among the statements surrounding Verdant Wind has also the context surrounding more about her relationship about Nemesis, but also how Byleth really is. It never mentioned the full story about Sothis as a being, but who she was for Rhea, aka mother and daughter.
Rhea: Perhaps. Please forgive my errant thoughts. Once this battle is over… I will explain everything. I will tell you all I know about who you really are.
Click to expand...
This comes into the City Without Light as the argument that surrounds that not only there's more information Rhea share, but that she commented everyhting Rhea's knew and how Byleth really was. On Fódlan's New Dawn there's also the commentary that she needed to bleed to give birth and suffer. Keep in mind that at this point even without taking context Heroes, there's more than enough aspects that mentions how Nabateans get downpowered once they start bleeding meanaing that she had too give something in orden to life with her creation and that at that point, she was no longer to her prime.

Claude: Rhea… I have to ask. You're the Immaculate One, aren't you? If what I'm thinking is correct, that's what the children of the goddess is referring to. In other words, you—
Rhea: I am the last child of the progenitor god. A long time ago, the progenitor god came from somewhere far away and descended upon this continent. She changed her form to resemble that of a human, and gave her own blood to birth her children.
Click to expand...

This is somewhat of a different case, as unlike other games, the legends in FE3H are pretty inaccurate. (if the example with Nemesis didn't make that obvious).

Except that even then, characters from Heroes can go back to the events that surrounds the events that happens both before and after a legend is told similar to how many of those heroes can interact from characters from different timelines. But get the knowledge surrounding the characters by themselves being Heroes the most accurate version of itself since the many knowledge that afirms the creation of the world being created by Sothis.

Sothis merged Byleth is pretty much about as strong as the weakened Sothis that caused the Flood.

Except that Sothis, Solon and Rhea did.

Sothis: Do you recall your father's diary? He said you were a child who never cried nor laughed. I think I am the one to blame. I must have been asleep, but even then, I feel I was a part of you. I do not know how Rhea managed it, but she allowed me to exist inside of you. The truth is I have always been with you. It is within you that I found my power yet again. The power of a goddess. The power of the progenitor god.

Byleth: ...

Sothis: My name is Sothis. By now you must be well aware of what that means. I am the one who watches over Fodlan and the creatures dwelling there. I am Sothis, she who died then returned.

Byleth: Somehow, I know it to be true.

Sothis: There is only one thing left to do to save us from this darkness of eternity. I must now use the power of a god. However, I lack a body of my own. And so, I must relinquish all the power that I have...to you. The time has come for you and I to join as one. And when that comes to pass...then I shall disappear.

Byleth: I won't allow it.

Sothis: When I say disappear, I do not mean that all I am will be no more. My soul will join with yours, and you and I will never be apart. But...I will no longer have a chance to speak with you. I shall miss it. So long have I been on this path with you. Through you, I got to see and hear this world. I even got to chastise you from time to time. I may not have acted like a goddess, but...it was certainly fun. For all that you have done... Thank you. I'm glad that it was you to whom my fate was bound.
Click to expand...

Solon: So the Fell Star consumes even the darkness itself...

Byleth vs. Solon

Solon: I am terrified by you... Even though an emotion like fear has no place inside me. That means you must be eliminated.
Click to expand...

Rhea: ... How lovely...it would be for this moment to last forever... I wish I could hold on to this time we have stolen... that you and I could create a world without end... I have heard whispers of what happened to you. Your appearance... You have received power from the goddess. From the moment you took hold of the Sword of the Creator... I prayed that one day the radiant power of Sothis, which bathes Fódlan in its celestial light, might reside within you. But you are so much more than the light. You are my... Close your eyes, dear one. Sleep, just a while longer.
Click to expand...

All this says that Sothis doesn't have a full body so she couldn't participate to help, but grant her her power to Byleth as the Progenitor God. Solon feared Byleth and that is something that only Sothis had the honor to make fear TWSITD and many testimonies including "Romance of the World's Perdition" that the doom of not only his civilization, but the world would be sink and since salvation to all the beast of the land is mentioned this also means that the creation of not only Fodlan, but potentially all the land in the world would be created on a extremely fast ratio and Rhea directly said that her mother power that bathes Fódlan to grant her power is on Byleth.

And now into Heroes statements.

In fact, Sothis is supposed to be the one who created the world where you’ll find the continent of Fódlan.

This world of yours is quite a sight. Was this one of my own creations, or... Ah. Never mind that last part.

Is this the power that I lost? Or am I imagining things?

I lost my worldly form so long ago. This shape you see before you is just a shadow, or perhaps a dream.
Click to expand...
That not only supports my previous points, but also the mention of her knowing she lost power and Nabaetans sleeping as a way to recover their powers places the Sothis who descends not only as not her Prime, but comparable to Byleth and her status as creator of her world and due her vague memory she can even said that she doesn't want to reveal more creations about many different worlds she created being her Mythic Battle the extend that even in her as a not corporeal being, her interaction with Byleth she can also reveal her truth form meaning that in her current state was comparable to were she descends.

This form you see... It is ephemeral.
My true form is... Well, I cannot
reveal it here.
Click to expand...
 
Actually, Sothis having all of her powers would make her too strong for everyone else and thus everyone would fear her.

Well, yea, she was powerful in her prime aka adult form. Hence why the Agarthans tried to take her out but failed.

And the Cindered Shadows library even described her as being "Omnipotent" before she descended to Fodlan. That word is an obvious hyperbole that should never be taken seriously, but this is still coming from a banned book that really had nothing to hide.

No, that came from the official library at Garreg Mach, where they exaggerate Sothis and Seiros' power. None of the books in that library that have to do with the Seiros faith should be taken seriously, unless its just to use as supporting evidence.

Byleth matched Immaculate One in SS, who is stronger than base Seiros, who slew the original Nemesis.

Well they also had the help of Seteth and Flayn. And funny enough, several heroes quotes implies that resurrected Nemesis is actually weaker than he was originally, as he states stuff like, "A shadow of my former glory.", and "Far from what I once was...".

Except that even then, characters from Heroes can go back to the events that surrounds the events that happens both before and after a legend is told similar to how many of those heroes can interact from characters from different timelines. But get the knowledge surrounding the characters by themselves being Heroes the most accurate version of itself since the many knowledge that afirms the creation of the world being created by Sothis.

Except that the characters never actually do that. They could, but they haven't, not that we have seen anyways. Once again, the only reason that they even say that Sothis created the world is because its from the Seiros faith, and its the most widespread belief in Fodlan, and we all know how reliable that is. They probably don't know about the truth of Heroes Relics even, they only know what is told in legends, we haven't seen them ask characters that know the truth.

On Fódlan's New Dawn there's also the commentary that she needed to bleed to give birth and suffer. Keep in mind that at this point even without taking context Heroes, there's more than enough aspects that mentions how Nabateans get downpowered once they start bleeding meanaing that she had too give something in orden to life with her creation and that at that point, she was no longer to her prime.

Once again, I still fail to see how this equals to being depowered. Yea, she gave some of her blood and stuff, but this doesn't automatically translate to her being weakened. Heck, even Flayn seemed to be relatively fine shortly after her blood was stolen. Rhea gives her blood to church members all the time and she seems to be fine as well. She needed to recover a bit, but thats all really. Changing her form to resemble that of a human's doesn't prove anything either, she could just as easily retain her power in different forms.

The truth is I have always been with you. It is within you that I found my power yet again. The power of a goddess. The power of the progenitor god.

Alright, this is much more clear. The only issue I have with it now is the fact that it took Sothis an incredibly long time to even restore Fodlan to it's original state, which is an inconsistency. And as I have said before, her giving her blood/changing her form to resemble a human does not equal her being depowered/weakened. Then again, I suppose her destructive capability must be greater than her creation. And I can't really help but feel this feels very outlierish.
 
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If the Sothis we see ingame really does have the same power as Prime Sothis, then we also have a supporting feat for FTL god tiers, as Sothis came from the Blue Sea Star, and according to Edelgard, is millions of light years away.
 
So have you reached any conclusions here?
 
I have to unsubscribe from this thread due to time constraints. You can notify me later via my message wall if you need my help after you have reached a conclusion. Alternately, a staff member can use the @Username notification system.
 
Are we going to keep the High 7-A for the mid tiers, or is it fine to just possibly scale them to the god tiers, or does anyone else have any other propositions?
 
I wish to debate more about it, but time is going to be hard. But, I have a proposition to discuss and upgrade the Major Crest (with the exception of Flayn and Seteth since overtime, they were depowered) to the likes of Wandering Beast/Maurice due many of the heroes that have Major Crests were comparable to the other main Major Crest such as how Felix is comparable to his fight with Byleth (which can't be argued with Byleth being at his worst due statements of boths being considered equals) and spared consistently with Dimitri, Lysithea due being her sharing two crests due experiments to increase her magical power (albeit one can argue about Glass Cannon status) and the group of Ashen Wolves due their pre-timeskip versions still fought against the Umbra Beast which is on higher levels than the likes of Base Byleth and the three leader.

Not only that, both there's many evidence that places Major Crest users above Minor Crests users like Lysithea being on a higher magical level than Lorenz, the case of Maurice being stronger than most Demonic Beast and Marianne, and how Edelgard curbstomped Ferdinand let alone the comparasion of Seteth at his best being comparable to the other Four Saints. This upgrade would actually be similar to the scaling chain of the Fire Emblem Genealogy of the Holy War cast because the Holy Weapon users must be people of Major Holy Blood and that they are Tiers above the Minor Holy Blood users.
 
That is an interesting proposition. Maybe those with Hero's Relics and those with Major Crests can scale? Since the examples I have listed of mid tiers keeping up with god tiers all have heroes relics, or major crests with a few exceptions. (And side note, I think that Seteth and Flayn can actually scale, since they do have major crests, they can fight against both Byleth and Edelgard in CF (They have to otherwise they both die), both can fight against Edelgard in VW/SS, and both are heavily implied to have helped take down the crazed IO.
 
DragonMaster had concerns that everyone besides Byleth and the Three Lords should be within the same ballpark, but I can see a lot of Major Crest users being stronger than their minor crest or no crest peers. Though, the problem is that even people like Hubert and Dedue have no crest, but are considerably the 2nd strongest characters in their respective houses as well on par with other Heroes Relic users. And also Caspar is a weird case; he went from getting his ass kicked by fodder soldiers to being able to fight against the Death Knight in the Auxiliary battle. And against IO, Byleth did most of the work, Seteth and Flayn appeared more as distractions or was a back up healer in Flayn's case.

But, I agree with Puas regarding the Sothis. The Blue Star feat actually sounds like it would be Massively FTL+
 
DragonMaster had concerns that everyone besides Byleth and the Three Lords should be within the same ballpark, but I can see a lot of Major Crest users being stronger than their minor crest or no crest peers. Though, the problem is that even people like Hubert and Dedue have no crest, but are considerably the 2nd strongest characters in their respective houses as well on par with other Heroes Relic users. And also Caspar is a weird case; he went from getting his ass kicked by fodder soldiers to being able to fight against the Death Knight in the Auxiliary battle. And against IO, Byleth did most of the work, Seteth and Flayn appeared more as distractions or was a back up healer in Flayn's case.

But, I agree with Puas regarding the Sothis. The Blue Star feat actually sounds like it would be Massively FTL+
 
Well yes the blue star feat is MFTL+, but that is a heavy outlier. I just mentioned it so it can be used as supporting evidence for FTL.

Actually, the retainers aren't necessarily the 2nd strongest, I don't recall that being mentioned anywhere. Sure, they are strong, but I don't think that just because they are retainers means that they are automatically the 2nd strongest. At least, that is the case for Dedue. I guess Hubert technically is the 2nd strongest, since even as a child, he could fight off soldiers, while Caspar in his late teens got clobbered by new soldiers.

With the Caspar example, that is pre-timeskip vs post-timeskip. In post-timeskip, he is seen absolutely stomping fodder soldiers.
 
I'm not a fan of Crest users being considered stronger than non-Crest users when the whole theme of the game is that such a division is harmful and useless
 
Also, something else I want to bring up is the Phantom Soldiers we see in certain chapters in paralogues. Since everyone can take them out, would that give them Non-Physical Interaction? Since the literal definition of phantom is like a spirit/ghost or illusion. Or is there not enough to prove that the soldiers are just illusions/ghosts?
 
Yeah, Non-Physical Interaction is solid enough. About Blue Star Sea feat, that would hardly say that is an outlier due only be applied to Prime Sothis and actually can replace her previous Infinite speed and being a feat that supports FTL for the Top Tiers of the Fire Emblem Three Houses cast.

About Hubert and Dedue being considered the second strongest member of their houses, I don't saw any of that kind of statement about that outside that both of them serves as their respective leaders right hand man. Also yeah, Caspar example is a pre-timeskip one and shows how much he changed.

Also may I ask how this wiki has their Three Houses Scaling Chain.
 
Obviously Prime Sothis is the true God Tier

The next strongest characters are Berserk IO, and SS Byleth.

Byleth other routes, Nemesis, Dimitri, Edelgard, Claude, Seiros/IO. May vary based on the route with each of the respective lords becoming the strongest of three within respective routes. Death Knight and Thales are also on this list along with Maurice and Immovable.

Next is all Heroes Relic users, pretty much all post-timeskip units, while some are stronger than others, we consider pretty much all post-timeskip units who aren't lords within the same ballpark. Pre-timeskip Byleth and the three Lords are also within this tier.

Then most of the Pre-timeskip students are just above average foot soldier tier.
 
I mostly agree with DDM, but I personally think its something like this:

0. g a t e k e e p e r
1. Prime Sothis (duh)
2. Prime Immaculate One
4. Prime Seiros
5. Prime Nemesis (Several quotes in heroes indicate that he was much stronger in his prime)
idk the other saints are somewhere around here or something with Macuil being the strongest. they are top tier, but idk where to rank them.
7/8. SS Byleth/Berserk Immaculate One
9. Normal Immaculate One
10. Undead Nemesis (Shown to be slightly stronger than VW Byleth, since he has shown to overpower them during the cutscene)
11. Byleth (Other routes)
12. Hegemon Edelgard
13. Dimitri (Probably the strongest physically out of all the base lords)
14. Edelgard
15. Claude
16. Rhea/Seiros (idk somewhere around here)
17. Death Knight (Can fight Byleth)
18. Thales (Can fight, and has harmed Byleth)
19. Indech/Macuil/Umbral Beast
20. Maurice

Those were the god tiers, next are some notable mid tiers.

21/22. Felix/Lysithea (Felix since he frequently spars with Byleth, and has even beaten them at one point. Even during their ending they are shown to frequently cross swords. Lysithea because Lysithea, aka dual crests, even Claude was scared of Lysithea's power)
23. Seteth (Played some role in defeating the Berserk IO)
24. Ingrid (Defeated Dimitri once, frequently spars with him)
25. Catherine (frequently spars with Dimitri)
26. Balthus (Can take on hordes of demonic beasts at once, which even the IO struggled to do)
27. Marianne (Helped defeat Maurice, has a heroes relic)
28/29. Leonie/Linhardt (Helped defeat Indech, both can use a sacred weapon)

The others are just other Relic wielders/Dark Relic wielders, then any sacred weapon wielders, then the regular timeskip students/anyone that scales to them. Then its just regular fodder. I suppose Hapi would technically be pretty high up this list since she can summon demonic beasts, but she should be around a regular timeskip student level on her own. Then its just regular fodder.
 
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